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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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I have enough cash to buy back 6,000 of the 22,000 shares I had to sell today to close out my BPSs. Do I buy them back in pre-market? The last thing I need is for the SP to go lower after I buy.... 😭

I suggest waiting it out. Even if we end up having a green day I don't think the MMs will let an opportunity go. In other words we could have a washout before we go up. Elon not saying anything is probably going to add to the volatility. So better to sit out and watch the action tomorrow.
 
Damn, i'm sorry to hear that. I didn't see that you had made some moves to protect your portfolio from further downside. That is enraging (regarding how he blind sided us). I'm not sure what to say. Hopefully we have clear skies from here on out.
I literally had to do it this morning to protect my account. Like I said a week or two ago, I had this feeling that I was going to drown 5 feet from shore after swimming across the ocean. I am beside myself right now. This was life changing money for me.
 
Edit: just saw Elon sold today, so that explains it.

Ok experts, what in the world is this? Relatively large number of puts traded waaaaay out there (260, 266, 300) for 11/18. FYI, there were more traded today than were open, so these are new trades today. These have essentially zero intrinsic/time value (~$0.10), so what’s up? Anybody selling those will probably have them exercised overnight. Why would anybody buy them? To guarantee a way to sell massive numbers of shares? Does someone know something? A bet on SP rising in the AM due to the election? I’m clueless.
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If I wanted to short TSLA without paying option premium, and still be protected against unlimited losses, I'd buy those. Market makers would sell them to me, and hedge by shorting shares in a 1:1. They end up with tiny premium + liquid cash that prob has some value...
 
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There's subtle life on the call side, not enough to counter what these 5u387$ have up their sleeve.,,, this can't all be "just how the market works." Ok, rant over :) I'll take profit on sold calls during the MMD. On any upswing I'll move that last far DITM BPS to '25. GLTA.

TSLA-TotalGamma-08Nov2022.png
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I have enough cash to buy back 6,000 of the 22,000 shares I had to sell today to close out my BPSs. Do I buy them back in pre-market? The last thing I need is for the SP to go lower after I buy.... 😭

Not-advice, but would it make sense to sell ITM puts to take advantage of an SP rise, but still be protected in case of a retracement, without being exposed to a stratospheric rise (that CC's would expose you to)?
 
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I literally had to do it this morning to protect my account. Like I said a week or two ago, I had this feeling that I was going to drown 5 feet from shore after swimming across the ocean. I am beside myself right now. This was life changing money for me.
I seriously hate Twitter. Imagine being right on a company but being wrong on something outside of your control. It just feels bad.
 
I seriously hate Twitter. Imagine being right on a company but being wrong on something outside of your control. It just feels bad.
FWIW, Elon is probably having the same feelings. Buying a company with potentials but having to deal with incompetent assholes on the other side during a major financial crisis. I don't like being dragged into his affairs either but this is the reason why we have to manage our risks and respect the market. Things can go very wrong all at the same time for good reasons...
 
Not-advice, but would it make sense to sell ITM puts to take advantage of an SP rise, but still be protected in case of a retracement, without being exposed to a stratospheric rise (that CC's would expose you to)?
This is a similar approach that I'm taking. Leverage down by selling shares and closing ITM BPS when needed for margin or the stock is headed down. Then STO BPS again and buy back shares when in a recovery phase and margin is better. You may not get back to the same position as before due to bid/ask spread, price moves etc, but you can reclaim much of the previous position. As long as an uptrend remains this leverage works in your favour. You just need to be prepared to de-leverage for downtrends or when there's a major binary risk event (eg CPI).
 
Indeed, I always like to roll while while taking some profit out of the original position, even if it's just a few cents, it accumulates over time
This is also why I only(*) roll for a credit.

However, in case it isn't clear to anybody reading, a roll of a losing position (which is always what I mean when I talk about a roll, and I believe is the typical usage throughout the thread) is the realization of a loss plus the creation of a new and even larger position.

That new and even larger position is what creates the credit. It also creates an even larger liability. That larger liability can earn back the already realized losses and do it fast, but it can also just sit there on the books, or even as we've been seeing people reporting - those DITM options (puts lately) can get early assigned, thereby creating full realization of the position.

Of course - then you can turn right around recreate that DITM position.


I always roll for a credit (where always is 99.99% - I do consider debit rolls as well, and almost never use them). But when closing pieces of a losing position, as I've begun doing with DITM puts, I only use realized gains to pay for those exits. This insures positive income/cash flow throughout.

(NOT-ADVICE. Something to consider. This idea is also the cash flow vs. income statement post I put up recently)

Any particular reason they are targeting 90 days out?

CPI tomorrow and possible election outcome moves makes me very hesitant to do anything today outside of being defensive. I closed a few sold puts to provide some overhead in the event of a high CPI number tomorrow.
If you read and study option trading systems, many of those involving selling options use 30-45 days as the optimum range for DTE. I believe that a big chunk of the reasoning has to do with generating a useful return on much lower IV stock than we're accustomed to working with.

  • I don't ever sell CCs less than 30 days out, and usually aim for 30-45 depending on volatility and how juicy the premiums are.
  • I also never sell CCs unless the stock price is trending up, and has been for at least a couple days. I can give more specific numbers, but in general this strategy has worked for me every single time.
  • I always target SP about 20% out (or based on the historical moving average of the stock over a similar time period), and I don't get greedy - always closing when I've hit at least 60% profit. But i'm always watching the premiums on the other side that let me know if I'm in any trouble or not.
For me 90 days may be too much time/uncertainty in this type of environment, where swings are based on macro, war, and twitter....but in a more "stable" environment I could envision how this would be a successful way to go about it.

Everyone has their own methods so it's important to see which one makes you the most comfortable. At the end of the day, sometimes no trade is the best trade you can make!

But to your point that I quoted - I am actually waiting for the CPI / election news this week to solidify whether I want to sell puts or calls....and that's only because in this environment, Tesla is being affected by every little thing so you have to pay attention.
I'd love it if you'd expand on this idea - maybe add in some recent historical trades (what you saw and were acting on at entry, what made you decide on the exit, how often you're seeing your setups, stuff like that) as additional examples / insights into what and how you're doing things

The reason I ask is that we've got people working at many different DTE. Most are in the 1-2 week range, but we've also got day traders and a bit longer. I don't think I'e seen anybody (except maybe @CHGolferJim talk about monthly+ type DTE. More examples and details over this wider time frame will, I think, be valuable to many. Whether they follow up and do it for themselves or not. I know it'll be valuable to me - in the back of my mind I'm always thinking about how to minimize my time and energy, and one mechanism would be higher DTE (I'm still in the 1-2week DTE trades).
 
I'm worried that Twitter revenue drop will continue, and Elon decides to fund it by inserting more cash, getting cash from selling more Tsla.. Burning his assets

Please tell me I shouldn't worry about this..
Twitter is so horribly managed that the bar is very low for them to improve profitability. And advertisers only care about active users. Even if democrats swear off twitter there’s a whole international audience. And only a very small vocal minority actually boycott stuff.
 
I'm worried that Twitter revenue drop will continue, and Elon decides to fund it by inserting more cash, getting cash from selling more Tsla.. Burning his assets

Please tell me I shouldn't worry about this..
Word is that Twitter had $6B cash-on-hand, so there's no immediate crisis on that front, and the cost of Elon's loan servicing is $1.3B per year, which is surely now covered with these share sells

The way I see it is that this is the sell everyone expected BEFORE the acquisition, but it came after - the numbers are about right. So hopefully this is the end of the "overhang", at least on the financial aspects

What worries me is that Elon has historically sold at local tops...
 
Elon selling does screw up the technicals, yes. It's impossible to ponder the coulda & woulda if he didn't sell at this point, though.
All, I made 2 new posts here. TSLA Technical Analysis & Roadmap
The last is the most important one at this juncture.

Technical analysis is not influenced by events. Otherwise it would be fundamental analysis. For Tesla's TA the only thing that matters is the chart, not events like earnings, Elon selling, recalls, sales numbers, Hertz deal, etc. Technical analysis is leading, events follow. At least, that's what I've been told by TA purists.

I have sinned: talking about TA in the options thread :rolleyes:

So to get back on track: yesterday I did the following.

On the put side:
- @188 I sold 5 -p180 11/11 for $1.70, thinking that we will probably not go down that low this week and if we do I can likely roll out one week for a nice premium.
- @188 I rolled my 5 -p215 from 11/11 to 11/18 for $0.90. Didn't want those to get assigned.

On the call side:
- @190 I closed 10 -c235 11/11 for $0.10. Freeing up 1000 shares to be able to sell new covered calls at a higher level, but that didn't mature yet.
- @194 I rolled 10 -c215 from 11/11 to 11/18 for $1.50. I liked the premium and didn't expect us to go much higher.

I have now deployed 80% of the cash and 33% of the shares in my trading account.
 
What worries me is that Elon has historically sold at local tops...
I look at it differently. Those turned out to be local tops because of the Elon selling.

The good news is the stock held up fairly well. I’m actually glad that Elon is not talking about the selling or explaining the rationale. Too much noise.

Bezos sold all the way from owning 42% of AMZN to now owning less than 10%. And guess what Amazon did just fine.
 
I look at it differently. Those turned out to be local tops because of the Elon selling.

The good news is the stock held up fairly well. I’m actually glad that Elon is not talking about the selling or explaining the rationale. Too much noise.

Bezos sold all the way from owning 42% of AMZN to now owning less than 10%. And guess what Amazon did just fine.
Yeah, but nobody gives a shirt about Bezos 😂
 
I got assigned 21 x SEP'23 400 Puts a short while ago that were art of 360/400 BPS's. I'd moved some JUN'23 366.66/400 BPS down to JUN'23 330/370 for equal overall value as I was concerned about the tiny extrensic remaining. However I wasn't as concerend for the SEP BPS'sand was surprised to see them assigned.

Whoever exercised them has actually done me a favor as they had around $1 of extrensic value left. These are also in a margin account so I can time selling the shares on a pop and hopefully time the $360P+ sale on the MMD. A -$5 difference in share price beween each sale should net me around $10k extra over exercising the 360P+. Then I can just STO some more BPS or sell some shares to return the cash balance.