SGIP rebate for Powerwall 2 install in SCE territory?

[outie]

I ordered the PW2 few months ago. Tesla Energy came out to do a site survey and got me a quote. At the time I was very concerned about SGIP rebates and the lady kept saying they can't guarantee I will get the rebate, and they wouldn't file any paperwork until I sign the contract.

Fast forward few months with no action on my part, I decided to cancel the PW2 order and get back my deposit. Then a month or so passed, the lady emailed me saying they now have an amendment to the contract that if I don't get the rebate I will get my deposit refunded. I told her to send it over and also told her I already canceled the order. I didn't hear back since.

So for those who are concerned about TE's risk of SGIP rebate, you should ask about that amendment. I don't know if it was a case by case scenario (since I didn't move forward) or if they recently added this to all orders.

If you have any concerns with confirming the order without knowing if you are receiving the rebate or not, we do have an amendment where you can cancel at any time and receive your deposit back. I will be happy to send this amendment to you upon request.

 

[DeJa]

If they do offer up such an amendment that's great but I suspect it's because of where you were at in the queue. Given their current back log I would think they've realized they have likely already gotten their 20% max of each step allocated for. When I asked TE yesterday if they had any such claim they unfortunately said no.

Even if they were to offer it up to a new sign up I would be concerned. You go through the whole process, wait, and wait, and then they're like "oh sorry we met our 20% max" so you won't get it and you cancel. You then go and talk to another installer and realize you're in Step 5 or nothing because you waited to long.

It's all a gamble I guess.

 

[Az_Rael]

If they do offer up such an amendment that's great but I suspect it's because of where you were at in the queue. Given their current back log I would think they've realized they have likely already gotten their 20% max of each step allocated for. When I asked TE yesterday if they had any such claim they unfortunately said no.

Even if they were to offer it up to a new sign up I would be concerned. You go through the whole process, wait, and wait, and then they're like "oh sorry we met our 20% max" so you won't get it and you cancel. You then go and talk to another installer and realize you're in Step 5 or nothing because you waited to long.

It's all a gamble I guess.

TE is telling me they have Powerwalls in stock now and no waiting. I signed on with them for that reason (I don't have a PW reservation or anything). So the only thing I should have to wait on is for step 3 to open.

Hope they aren't wrong about that. I guess I will find out once the site survey is done.

ust to point it out again say Tesla is going to install 2 Powerwalls for $13,000 (which is probably lower than it will actually cost). If you get the ITC and the SGIP rebate it will have a net cost of $980 (haha, I know). Say you don't get the SGIP rebate, it'll cost you $9,100. Now, if you go with another installer for 2 and take their quote of $20,000 once you deduct the $6,000 ITC and $8,120 SGIP rebate your net cost is $5,880.

My numbers worked out a little differently, but the end result is similar ~$3200 difference in price between the Tesla cost if I don't get the SGIP vs the other installer if I get a Step 2 rebate. Net cost for Step 3 with the TE bid is $2018, and net $6200 for Step 2 with the 3rd party installer. If I don't get any SGIP for the TE bid, my cost would be $9445.

So, I am choosing to go with Tesla (who is charging me a reasonable install fee) and taking my chances with the SGIP. It really irks me that the other installer was charging DOUBLE for the 2nd powerwall install when it does not entail a huge amount of extra labor just because of the rebate. I'd rather not give them the business.

 

[abasile]

Just heard back from the SGIP contact. He said that the ITC and the SGIP rebate essentially are for the most part mutually exclusive. You will get the full SGIP and ITC as long as the total of those two aren't in excess of the project cost.

IOW if the total install cost is $10,000 for 1 Powerwall you would get $3,000 ITC and $4,060 SGIP totalling $7,060.

I'm not a tax professional, but it appears to me that if this proves to be true (and it does appear to be consistent with the most recent SGIP paperwork that the installer prepared for my project), then the SGIP rebate may need to be treated as income on one's personal return.

Otherwise, if the SGIP rebate isn't declared as income, then it seems that it should reduce the project cost subject to the 30% ITC.

In other words, it makes sense to me that SGIP would allow double dipping, as in this scenario the SGIP rebate is a fixed amount based on system capabilities rather than a percentage of costs. But I'm not inclined to believe that the IRS would be as generous as some might hope for.

 

[miimura]

My tax accountant told me that the ITC would be calculated based on my net cost after any rebates. So, for the $10,000 example, SGIP pays per Watt-Hour, so that is fixed.
$10,000 - $4,060 = $5,940 after SGIP
$5,940 - $1,782 = $4,158 after SGIP and ITC
I don't think the SGIP rebate is counted as income. I will have to ask my tax accountant or see if they issue a 1099.

 

[Az_Rael]

My tax accountant told me that the ITC would be calculated based on my net cost after any rebates. So, for the $10,000 example, SGIP pays per Watt-Hour, so that is fixed.
$10,000 - $4,060 = $5,940 after SGIP
$5,940 - $1,782 = $4,158 after SGIP and ITC
I don't think the SGIP rebate is counted as income. I will have to ask my tax accountant or see if they issue a 1099.

Hmm. I wonder how this plays out when you don't know you will even be getting the SGIP, or which step you will get. I might have my whole system installed, taxes filed, and ITC tax credit received before I even know if I will get the SGIP or not.

 

[miimura]

Hmm. I wonder how this plays out when you don't know you will even be getting the SGIP, or which step you will get. I might have my whole system installed, taxes filed, and ITC tax credit received before I even know if I will get the SGIP or not.

Can you even get SGIP for a system that is already installed before it's approved and reserved?

 

[abasile]

Hmm. I wonder how this plays out when you don't know you will even be getting the SGIP, or which step you will get. I might have my whole system installed, taxes filed, and ITC tax credit received before I even know if I will get the SGIP or not.

That might be an argument for taking the ITC on the full system cost. Then, if you end up getting an SGIP rebate, perhaps your accountant might declare it as income or as a state/local tax refund. This might also make sense if the system is installed in one tax year and the SGIP rebate arrives in the next tax year.

I'm not a tax pro, but it seems to me that even the pros are still trying to figure this out.

 

[Az_Rael]

Can you even get SGIP for a system that is already installed before it's approved and reserved?

Good question, one I will have to ask. If Tesla is locked out until step 3, does that mean I can't even start my install until they open step 3 up.

That would suck.

 

[ElectricRed]

Good question, one I will have to ask. If Tesla is locked out until step 3, does that mean I can't even start my install until they open step 3 up.

That would suck.

Been lurking here for the past few weeks since I'm in similar situation. I'm at the "design" phase with TE for a 2.6kW system and one Powerwall. After signing the contract based on the assurance that I'll be able to get the SGIP rebate, my sales rep just told me today that is no guarantee that I'll even get the step 3 rebate. Just like everyone else were told, Tesla is waiting for Stage 3 to open before they'll apply for the rebates.

According to the SGIP handbook, Section 4.2.2:

Systems will be eligible to receive a reservation up to 12 months after receiving authorization to operate in parallel with the grid from the electric utility."​

It sounds like if Step 3 doesn't open in 2018, there'll be good chance I won't be able to get the SGIP rebate at all.

The Powerwall portion of my system is $7,500. It will be approximately $2,300 after SGIP and ITC. Without SGIP, it will be $5,250 after just ITC.

At this point I'm considering either taking out the Powerwall from the design, or just cancel the whole project completely and go with someone else just for the PV system.

 

[miimura]

At this point I'm considering either taking out the Powerwall from the design, or just cancel the whole project completely and go with someone else just for the PV system.

Definitely get quotes for straight solar systems from other vendors so that you can make an educated decision. I'm also wondering, why only 2.6kW solar? My 4.3kW system is too small.

 

[ElectricRed]

Definitely get quotes for straight solar systems from other vendors so that you can make an educated decision. I'm also wondering, why only 2.6kW solar? My 4.3kW system is too small.

I live on the Coastside (Half Moon Bay area) so there's no need for AC and my house's monthly electricity usage is only about 300-350kWh, so a 2.6kW system is more than sufficient. I also have a separate meter on EV-B rate for my two EVs. After the PV system is installed the house meter will be on TOU-A or TOU-B, and my EVs will be still be on EV-B. If I spec the PV system to cover the cars, it will at least double the size and I'll be charging my cars at TOU rates, which are about double of EV-B rates.

 

[ElectricRed]

Definitely get quotes for straight solar systems from other vendors so that you can make an educated decision. I'm also wondering, why only 2.6kW solar? My 4.3kW system is too small.

BTW, the PV portion of my TE quote is about $10k. After ITC it's $2.95/kW. Quotes from other vendors are similar.

 

[miimura]

I live on the Coastside (Half Moon Bay area) so there's no need for AC and my house's monthly electricity usage is only about 300-350kWh, so a 2.6kW system is more than sufficient. I also have a separate meter on EV-B rate for my two EVs. After the PV system is installed the house meter will be on TOU-A or TOU-B, and my EVs will be still be on EV-B. If I spec the PV system to cover the cars, it will at least double the size and I'll be charging my cars at TOU rates, which are about double of EV-B rates.

You can put a separate ~3kW solar system on the EV meter. Alternatively, you could look into whether you can use Net Meter Aggregation to virtually push some of the solar generation from the main meter where the solar is installed onto your EV meter. In any case, there is no need to ever charge cars on TOU-A or TOU-B. It's ridiculously expensive. I have my whole house and EV charging on EV-A and it works well as long as you don't have a lot of A/C use, which neither of us do. EV-B is only $0.0005/kWh less than EV-A Off-Peak.

If you got a bigger PV system, the $/kW would be lower.

 

[ElectricRed]

You can put a separate ~3kW solar system on the EV meter. Alternatively, you could look into whether you can use Net Meter Aggregation to virtually push some of the solar generation from the main meter where the solar is installed onto your EV meter. In any case, there is no need to ever charge cars on TOU-A or TOU-B. It's ridiculously expensive. I have my whole house and EV charging on EV-A and it works well as long as you don't have a lot of A/C use, which neither of us do. EV-B is only $0.0005/kWh less than EV-A Off-Peak.

If you got a bigger PV system, the $/kW would be lower.

Reading about NEMA now... interesting. This may change my design...

Net Energy Metering Aggregation (NEMA)

 

[ohmman]

mod note: Leaving this thread in place for now, but try to stay on the SCE topic. We have another repository for general SGIP/Incentive discussion here.

 

[Az_Rael]

mod note: Leaving this thread in place for now, but try to stay on the SCE topic. We have another repository for general SGIP/Incentive discussion here.

Thanks for breaking the SGIP stuff out into a separate thread. Much easier vs the mass Powerwall one.


Back on my hyper local subject: does anyone know how the West LA district part works for SCE? I see my Palmdale zip code is listed, but when I pull up the map, there are zero zones shown in Palmdale.

 

[DeJa]

My tax accountant told me that the ITC would be calculated based on my net cost after any rebates. So, for the $10,000 example, SGIP pays per Watt-Hour, so that is fixed.
$10,000 - $4,060 = $5,940 after SGIP
$5,940 - $1,782 = $4,158 after SGIP and ITC
I don't think the SGIP rebate is counted as income. I will have to ask my tax accountant or see if they issue a 1099.

While I agree that it personally seems like that would be the more sensible way to do it that doesn't in fact seem to be what is happening and based on some IRS rulings doesn't actually seem to be the case.

I bought an EV, I got a $2,500 state rebate, yet I never got a 1099 from the state. I actually inquired about that and was told that I didn't need to report it as income. This is along a very similar line.

I also recently signed up for a new CCard and for points worth $1,500 in travel. No 1099, and the IRS has specific rulings that says they aren't income.

So while it would be nice if the IRS comes out and explicitly states one way or another the general consensus is that the two are exclusive and that you won't be taxed. At least that will be my position I did inquire with my local SGIP office and he said they don't issue a 1099 so I think it'll be ok but assuming I do it time will tell!

 

[Leonard P]

I signed a contract for a 13.5 kWh Powerwall 2 with LA Solar Group back in April. I keep getting messages that SCE hasn't approved Step 1 or Step 2 applications because of manufacturer certification, "...Tesla does not have SGIP requirements yet...". I find it hard to believe that Tesla hasn't come with the information for SGIP yet. Has anyone received approval in the SCE area?

 

[JHellow]

I am in the SCE area and signed up with Swell Energy very early in Step 1. I am in the same boat waiting for an SGIP approval.