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Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2013

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Been here since the IPO and bought at various prices. I have 100 shares at $18. Wasn't as confident back then. Rest is in options. Straddles, verticals, calendars, butterflies, sautees and guacamole. I've done all type of options strategy on TSLA for various situations. So the real average price is a very big mess. Thank goodness that I won't have to touch this accounting mess until next year.

Wow that is quite a lot of tricks you did. As TSLA so far has been a straight shot-up, those strategy might not work very well. They might do wonder in the next phase.

I got my first @35. However I add more significant positions after $40, 50, 90... Originally it was about not losing money. Then it becomes clear not missing the train. :)
 
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Short-Term TSLA Price Movements

Thanks for sharing DaveT, very interesting reading. I do not have any exciting options trading story to tell other than I been long on the stock and holding for quite some time.

Ok I will report my trades on the GS stunt day.

I was fortunate to have quite a lot of buying power in my 401k when it plummeted that day. Since it is tax deferred, I am free to trade short term. I got in two trades:

1. Buy Weekly call @110 for $4
2. Buy Aug call @115 for $10

I tend to buy at or near the the price calls. Though I pay more premium, it is less likely that the calls would just expire worthless. Buying a call has to have impeccable timing. We are lucky that TSLA produces endless opportunity to make money in calls. In other stocks, buying calls is probably a sucker's bet. In the past with other stocks, I make sure my account has about the same net liquid value in short options(puts and calls, options that I sold and will expire worthless if the market does not go strongly against the direction I wanted, which is always easy) as in the long options(calls and puts, options that I wish the market to go quickly the direction I want, which is always hard). This way, the time value offset each other so my account is not chipped away by daily withering value of the options.

Since #1 is weekly call, I have to close it in a week. That wasn't hard as it rebounded strongly in the next 1 or 2 days. I closed it at $8 and $11 respectively. A combined 150% gain in 2 days.

For #2, I intend to hold it to past Q2. I want to hedge so I after a few days, I sold:

#3 Sell Aug. call @125 for $8

The newly added leg #3, paired with #2, makes a vertical bull spread. It kind of lock in the outcome of my position within the range of $8 to $23. As TSLA keep rising up, my long calls appreciate more than the short calls. However I make a lot less money since I have the short calls.

I clearly have a game plan for a Q2 pop. So when TSLA dropped from $145 to #134 prior to Q2 ER, I took the opportunity and buy back #3 for $20, a loss of -$12 on paper. And now only the long Aug call @115 is left. If TSLA had a bad quarter and stock tank under $115, I would lost all.

I held #2 past earning, sold for $43 on Aug.8, after Q2 ER, when TSLA was at $157. Overall it is $10 --> $43-$12 = $31. 300% in less a month, not bad.

As you can see, making money by a call is anything but a sure thing. I didn't make the most gain possible, but I did make the majority of it, with a much reduced risk.

That is why when I see someone going for Aug. call @200, I have no idea what strategy is employed to have a reasonable reward/risk profile, and worried people are being carried away.

----update---
Actually I do have something to suggest, if you bought the Aug. call @200, you should also sell the Aug. put @100 for a premium to cover the cost of the call, thus fit into my guideline of keeping "the same net liquid value in short options as in the long options".

----update---

For reading background:
on July 16, 2013.
Tesla Motors Inc. (TSLA) shares fell 14 percent, the most in more than 18 months, after Goldman Sachs Group Inc. set a target price more than 30 percent lower than the electric-car maker’s close yesterday.
Tesla plunged to $109.05 at the close in New York, the biggest one-day decline since Jan. 13, 2012.

Tesla Falls on Goldman Sachs Price Target: Mover - Bloomberg
 
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He was joking.

Right. But IIRC, being distracted by the dogs did result in you doing a buy right at a minimum price.

OT, but do you recall when Steph was talking about short squeezes that you asked about $55 being a reasonable price limit for selling?
His response was that it could be much higher.

Where is Steph now that somewhat of a short squeeze has happened?

And of course, the process has taken much longer than most of us hoped for, and not fast enough to guarantee that a sell would be followed by a sufficient drop to replace our sold stock. Thus, I've been afraid to do anything but adjust my limits upward.

I've purchased at prices all over the place.
The first sixth was purchased at a cost basis of about $27/share and the next 5/6 at an average of about $32.23.

On March 1st I bought another 200 shares at about $36 and on May 8th another 100 at about $56.

I guess I'm a weak long, as I sold a little less than half my shares in the 3rd week of May to fund my Model S. I got to the point where I wanted the car more than the money.

I'm not very astute financially I guess. But I still have no regrets.

I'm down to my last pennies now. I bought two more shares a the end of July for ~$132/share.

BTW Bonnie, have you heard from Steph lately?
 
Right. But IIRC, being distracted by the dogs did result in you doing a buy right at a minimum price.

Yep, that's exactly what happened. Love those dogs!

OT, but do you recall when Steph was talking about short squeezes that you asked about $55 being a reasonable price limit for selling?
His response was that it could be much higher.
Where is Steph now that somewhat of a short squeeze has happened?

Steph missed this one, unfortunately.

And of course, the process has taken much longer than most of us hoped for, and not fast enough to guarantee that a sell would be followed by a sufficient drop to replace our sold stock. Thus, I've been afraid to do anything but adjust my limits upward.

Same here. I'm afraid that if I sell, I will not be able to buy back in at the same level. I'm not complaining :).

I've purchased at prices all over the place.
The first sixth was purchased at a cost basis of about $27/share and the next 5/6 at an average of about $32.23.
On March 1st I bought another 200 shares at about $36 and on May 8th another 100 at about $56.
I'm down to my last pennies now. I bought two more shares a the end of July for ~$132/share.

I've added to my position at a number of price points, too. I'm glad I have.

BTW Bonnie, have you heard from Steph lately?

I hear from him every couple of months or so. He's alive and kicking.
 
I guess I'm a weak long..
I might be as well. Got in at $29 and at this point I'm not sure how much more upside is really possible before Gen3. Maybe $200? The stock already has a crazy high valuation based on future potential.

At $29, the risk/reward was pretty impressive. Tesla does great, I'm up huge. Now it's not so clear. Gen3 is a long way off, probably 5 years. The X was supposed to be late 2013 originally, now it's looking like late 2014 at best. The Model S was late from it's original date. I think the Roadster was as well. No shock since Tesla runs like a software company :).

With Gen3 so far away, I'm not sure how much the stock can really move based on just S/X sales. If TSLA were a small part of my investment, it wouldn't matter, but it's basically my entire non-401k portfolio at this point. I gambled and won, seems like it might be time to walk away from the table.

Eh, thinking out loud mostly.
 
Wow Dave! Thanks so much for the detailed response. Always enjoy reading your posts and appreciate your insight. If I may ask, what are your price targets for Tsla for year-end, mid 2014 and Jan 15, assuming the company can continue to execute, and the overall markets/economy do not experience a black swan/recession type event? Thanks again!

I'll share my Jan14 and Jan15 price targets and then follow up with some additional thoughts. I usually update my price targets once a month personally, so these numbers are just current forecasts as of today and can (probably will) change at any time. Disclaimer: these price targets are just personal and I share them not to give advice but rather to ask for feedback and stir discussion.

Jan 2014 (mid-Jan)TSLA market cap: $21.5-29 billion
TSLA stock price: $175-240 (target: $210)

Jan 2015 (mid-Jan)TSLA market cap: $32-41 billion
TSLA stock price: $270-350 (target: $310)

Alright, now for my additional thoughts:

1. Fundamentals
I try to base my market cap forecasts off of real numbers (ie., projected revenue, earnings, P/E, etc). I shared a post last week, Long-Term Fundamentals of Tesla Motors - Page 25, and it shows my current thinking on how/why I think TSLA could be valued at $20-30b right now. And also how I can see TSLA valued at $40b in Jan 2015. Sometimes, I think my Jan15 $40b could be conservative if people believe the Gen III dream and give a higher P/E multiple than 50. But then again, the economy could tank, demand for Model S could stall, or Tesla could fail to execute (I'll cover these risks in a later point).

2. Momentum trading
There's a lot of speculators and people riding momentum stocks. That's to be expected. And there could reach a point where TSLA's valuation is propped up beyond realistic fundamentals (even in my modeling). I personally don't think we've reached that point (see #1), but I could imagine it get there. In that case, there could be risk of TSLA dropping significantly purely off of sentiment changing. This could happen if TSLA disappoints in a quarterly report or if TSLA's growth trajectory slows. But if TSLA keeps executing and demand for Model S grows, then momentum trading can take TSLA way beyond my expectations. At a certain point, that stock price growth needs to taper, stall, or dip, but that could take a while.

3. Economy
There are major risks to TSLA's stock price if the economy flutters/tanks or if the market goes through a major correction. This is a real risk and could throw off all my forecasted price targets. My price targets assume that the economy/market does not tank, Tesla executes well, and that demand for Model S is robust. If the economy/market tanks, then people's sentiment toward stocks in general and also toward high-growth stocks could change significantly. People will likely be drawn to safer assets and will not give the same multiples to equities. Thus, this could derail the epic TSLA rise and put it in a rut for a while. I'm confident though as the economy/market recovered, TSLA would be quite fast to recover (ie., this would be a huge buying opportunity).

It's very tough to forecast a recession or large market correction, and it's even more difficult to get the timing of that forecast correct. Further, the market most often prices economic downturn risk into the market prices, thus one needs to outsmart the general market in predicting the next recession or major correction. Even the best have mixed track records on predicting the timing of recessions and market corrections.

I do personally think there's risk (though I'm still processing the size of the risk) of a large market correction in the coming months. If the Fed starts tapering and the economy starts to dip, people might get scared. I think one scenario is the Dow drops to 12500-13000 as the market mood turns sour. I personally think the economy is still fairly solid, so I don't imagine the Dow staying down there for more than a few to several weeks. But who knows. Currently though I'm not seeing a large market dip/correction as big enough of a risk for me to hedge my positions. Yet. The risks could rise and my mind could change. But as it currently stands, I'm fully in on stock, ITM LEAPs, and some ITM options. So, even if the stock dips 30% and stays there for months (though I don't think it's likely), I'm in a position to wait it out for a very long time (my ITM LEAPs are Jan15). However, if I'm doing short-term option plays, I'm going to consider the broader market risks a bit more in whatever risk-reward probabilities I consider. It probably won't stop me from going in and buying options during some 20% TSLA dips, but it will make me think about broader market risks a bit more.

The overall market/economy is a tough thing to read and call. Sometimes sentiment can be so fickle. But my foundational investment thesis is optimistic in the long-term on the U.S. and world economies.

4. Why demand matters
As an TSLA investor I view demand as perhaps the greatest indicator for the prospects of the stock and company. The reason why demand is so important is because it largely determines the growth trajectory of the company, and the growth trajectory of the company will largely determine the P/E multiples investors will give, and that will determine the valuation of the company. In the Q2 ER, Tesla did share about production constraints (which could be serious if they can't meet demand in long-term) but Elon felt confident that they would overcome production bottlenecks and test the limits of demand sometime next year. This is good news.

When demand for the Model S grows, this is very, very good for TSLA (stock price). The reason being is that when demand grows, that means there's more people to buy the Model S, which means more revenue, more profits, etc. However, the powerful thing about growth is that it is compounded. So, when demand for the Model S grows, it means that the revenue Tesla will likely have in 3-4 years is immensely larger than if demand for Model S had stagnated. This is why for me it's very important to be in touch with Model S demand, and when demand grows to acknowledge the profound effects it could have on the valuation of the company.

For example, in 2012 it appears Tesla was estimating demand at 10-15k Model S in the U.S. Then, in Q1 ER, they said 15k units. Now, in Q2 ER they're saying 20k units fairly confidently. When Tesla was estimating 10-15k Model S in the U.S. that would be maybe 25k worldwide for Model S. Model X might be 20k. That would mean 45k units/year. Now if demand for Model S is 20k units in U.S., and worldwide it's 50k. Then, Model X will likely be 40k. So, you have 90k units/year. That's double. What that means is that TSLA will have double the revenue (in a few years) then they would have if they reached their earlier projections. The double in revenue profoundly changes the growth trajectory of the company and allows it to enter Gen III projection with more stores, more service centers, more customers, bigger/better brand recognition, more production experience, better margins, more cash, higher market cap (good for capital raises), etc. In other words, it dramatically increases the probability that Gen III will come to market successfully, and it dramatically increases the initial market size for Gen III. This in turn, dramatically increases the valuation of the company, deservedly so because the enter Gen III at a higher growth trajectory and as a stronger company.

In 2012 I was encouraged by the Elon Musk CEO incentive plan that had forecasted a $43 billion market cap within 10 years. In my opinion, that was reasonable based on the worldwide demand of Model S at 25k units/year (45k units Model S/X). However, with worldwide demand much larger (it appears), I think it dramatically increases the valuation of the company as I shared above. Thus, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a valuation of $50-100 billion for TSLA when Gen III reaches full production (2018-2019?). But again, this is all personal opinion and speculation at this point. Take it as that.

I'm also encouraged that Elon and co. seem to be confident in the growing demand for Model S (this is mentioned several times in Q2 ER shareholder letter). Elon and Deepak also mentioned it in the conference call as well when one analyst questioned them about how new models drop in sales over time. They were quick to answer that they don't think that will happen with the Model S, and that they were confident that demand would grow.

This might be off topic a bit but I was thinking about how Elon has mentioned that people tend to overestimate demand at the introduction of a new technology and then they tend to underestimate demand when the technology matures. I find this quite fascinating. Both Nissan and Chevy seemed to have overestimate the demand for their EVs. It seems like Tesla has avoided this mistake. With the Roadster, they produced such small quantities (maybe to respect the reality that overestimating demand could be fatal to the company). Also, with the Model S it appears Elon was conservative with demand estimates, not wanting to overestimate demand. However, it seems like demand is surpassing expectations. To me, this means that Elon and co. will need to expand their expectations of demand 10 years out. In other words, they don't want to make the mistake of underestimating demand for Gen III. China is definitely the wildcard IMO, and I think they can sell far more Gen III vehicles in China than the even the U.S. (even though they'll sell a ton in the U.S., Europe, etc). China's market is just so big. I can see Tesla management already thinking about making a factory there to avoid foreign import tariffs that make the Model S more expensive. And then they can use that scale that factory at due time for Gen III production as well.

5. The market is ruthless to high-growth stocks that aren't growing as fast anymore
As much as investors will give incredible P/E multiples to fast growing companies that are in a trajectory toward dominance, the same investors (the market) are ruthless when a company underperforms and shows that their growth trajectory is slowing. When growth slows, this removes the compound growth incorporated into the company's future projections and dramatically shrinks the future potential market cap of the company, thus dramatically shrinks what kind of P/E multiple investors are willing to pay today. Though I'm not terribly worried about this risk because Tesla is playing in one of the world's biggest markets and has a ton of space to grow, this is serious risk in case Tesla fails to execute in a serious manner.

6. Final thoughts on TSLA price
In summary, my price targets (ie., Jan14 target) are my personal opinion and are assuming the market/economy remains decently strong, Tesla continues to execute, and demand remains robust. Some of the things that will help the stock continue it's epic rise IMO are:
1. High short interest remains, thus offering the inevitable reality of the shorts eventually covering and forcing available shares to become more scarce.
2. Tesla will likely grow in visibility as more and more people learn about the company and cars.
3. More Model S owners and friends will likely invest in the company.
4. More funds and institutions will invest in the company, especially after a 2nd profitable quarter.

Some challenges (besides economy/market and TSLA execution) to reaching my Jan14 price target are:
1. Bad news on European demand or U.S. demand stalls/shrinks.
2. Major safety defect or recall.
3. Analysts turn bearish in general affecting mood/sentiment around stock.
4. "Short TSLA" movement is successful in spreading FUD and executing short attacks on stock to turn mood negative.
(*there are a ton of other risks, you can read TSLA's annual report to view some more. :) )

Would love to hear your thoughts and share in more discussion. So, what do you guys think?
 
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Would love to hear any feedback Curt or anyone else would like to share.

You've figured it pretty much as I have. You seem to understand that there is flexibility with liquid assets like stocks and options. If conditions change, positions can be changed on a moments notice. It's not like dealing in real estate. Of course tax considerations must be kept in mind.
 
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I'll share my Jan14 and Jan15 price targets and then follow up with some additional thoughts. I usually update my price targets once a month personally, so these numbers are just current forecasts as of today and can (probably will) change at any time. Disclaimer: these price targets are just personal and I share them not to give advice but rather to ask for feedback and stir discussion.

Jan 2014
TSLA market cap: $21.5-29 billion
TSLA stock price: $175-240 (target: $210)

Jan 2015
TSLA market cap: $32-41 billion
TSLA stock price: $270-350 (target: $310)

Alright, now for my additional thoughts:

1. Fundamentals
I try to base my market cap forecasts off of real numbers (ie., projected revenue, earnings, P/E, etc). I shared a post last week, Long-Term Fundamentals of Tesla Motors - Page 25, and it shows my current thinking on how/why I think TSLA could be valued at $20-30b right now. And also how I can see TSLA valued at $40b in Jan 2015. Sometimes, I think my Jan15 $40b could be conservative if people believe the Gen III dream and give a higher P/E multiple than 50. But then again, the economy could tank, demand for Model S could stall, or Tesla could fail to execute (I'll cover these risks in a later point).

2. Momentum trading
There's a lot of speculators and people riding momentum stocks. That's to be expected. And there could reach a point where TSLA's valuation is propped up beyond realistic fundamentals (even in my modeling). I personally don't think we've reached that point (see #1), but I could imagine it get there. In that case, there could be risk of TSLA dropping significantly purely off of sentiment changing. This could happen if TSLA disappoints in a quarterly report or if TSLA's growth trajectory slows. But if TSLA keeps executing and demand for Model S grows, then momentum trading can take TSLA way beyond my expectations. At a certain point, that stock price growth needs to taper, stall, or dip, but that could take a while.

3. Economy
There are major risks to TSLA's stock price if the economy flutters/tanks or if the market goes through a major correction. This is a real risk and could throw off all my forecasted price targets. My price targets assume that the economy/market does not tank, Tesla executes well, and that demand for Model S is robust. If the economy/market tanks, then people's sentiment toward stocks in general and also toward high-growth stocks could change significantly. People will likely be drawn to safer assets and will not give the same multiples to equities. Thus, this could derail the epic TSLA rise and put it in a rut for a while. I'm confident though as the economy/market recovered, TSLA would be quite fast to recover (ie., this would be a huge buying opportunity).

It's very tough to forecast a recession or large market correction, and it's even more difficult to get the timing of that forecast correct. Further, the market most often prices economic downturn risk into the market prices, thus one needs to outsmart the general market in predicting the next recession or major correction. Even the best have mixed track records on predicting the timing of recessions and market corrections.

I do personally think there's risk (though I'm still processing the size of the risk) of a large market correction in the coming months. If the Fed starts tapering and the economy starts to dip, people might get scared. I think one scenario is the Dow drops to 12500-13000 as the market mood turns sour. I personally think the economy is still fairly solid, so I don't imagine the Dow staying down there for more than a few to several weeks. But who knows. Currently though I'm not seeing a large market dip/correction as big enough of a risk for me to hedge my positions. Yet. The risks could rise and my mind could change. But as it currently stands, I'm fully in on stock, ITM LEAPs, and some ITM options. So, even if the stock dips 30% and stays there for months (though I don't think it's likely), I'm in a position to wait it out for a very long time (my ITM LEAPs are Jan15). However, if I'm doing short-term option plays, I'm going to consider the broader market risks a bit more in whatever risk-reward probabilities I consider. It probably won't stop me from going in and buying options during some 20% TSLA dips, but it will make me think about broader market risks a bit more.

The overall market/economy is a tough thing to read and call. Sometimes sentiment can be so fickle. But my foundational investment thesis is optimistic in the long-term on the U.S. and world economies.

4. Why demand matters
As an TSLA investor I view demand as perhaps the greatest indicator for the prospects of the stock and company. The reason why demand is so important is because it largely determines the growth trajectory of the company, and the growth trajectory of the company will largely determine the P/E multiples investors will give, and that will determine the valuation of the company. In the Q2 ER, Tesla did share about production constraints (which could be serious if they can't meet demand in long-term) but Elon felt confident that they would overcome production bottlenecks and test the limits of demand sometime next year. This is good news.

When demand for the Model S grows, this is very, very good for TSLA (stock price). The reason being is that when demand grows, that means there's more people to buy the Model S, which means more revenue, more profits, etc. However, the powerful thing about growth is that it is compounded. So, when demand for the Model S grows, it means that the revenue Tesla will likely have in 3-4 years is immensely larger than if demand for Model S had stagnated. This is why for me it's very important to be in touch with Model S demand, and when demand grows to acknowledge the profound effects it could have on the valuation of the company.

For example, in 2012 it appears Tesla was estimating demand at 10-15k Model S in the U.S. Then, in Q1 ER, they said 15k units. Now, in Q2 ER they're saying 20k units fairly confidently. When Tesla was estimating 10-15k Model S in the U.S. that would be maybe 25k worldwide for Model S. Model X might be 20k. That would mean 45k units/year. Now if demand for Model S is 20k units in U.S., and worldwide it's 50k. Then, Model X will likely be 40k. So, you have 90k units/year. That's double. What that means is that TSLA will have double the revenue (in a few years) then they would have if they reached their earlier projections. The double in revenue profoundly changes the growth trajectory of the company and allows it to enter Gen III projection with more stores, more service centers, more customers, bigger/better brand recognition, more production experience, better margins, more cash, higher market cap (good for capital raises), etc. In other words, it dramatically increases the probability that Gen III will come to market successfully, and it dramatically increases the initial market size for Gen III. This in turn, dramatically increases the valuation of the company, deservedly so because the enter Gen III at a higher growth trajectory and as a stronger company.

In 2012 I was encouraged by the Elon Musk CEO incentive plan that had forecasted a $43 billion market cap within 10 years. In my opinion, that was reasonable based on the worldwide demand of Model S at 25k units/year (45k units Model S/X). However, with worldwide demand much larger (it appears), I think it dramatically increases the valuation of the company as I shared above. Thus, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a valuation of $50-100 billion for TSLA when Gen III reaches full production (2018-2019?). But again, this is all personal opinion and speculation at this point. Take it as that.

I'm also encouraged that Elon and co. seem to be confident in the growing demand for Model S (this is mentioned several times in Q2 ER shareholder letter). Elon and Deepak also mentioned it in the conference call as well when one analyst questioned them about how new models drop in sales over time. They were quick to answer that they don't think that will happen with the Model S, and that they were confident that demand would grow.

This might be off topic a bit but I was thinking about how Elon has mentioned that people tend to overestimate demand at the introduction of a new technology and then they tend to underestimate demand when the technology matures. I find this quite fascinating. Both Nissan and Chevy seemed to have overestimate the demand for their EVs. It seems like Tesla has avoided this mistake. With the Roadster, they produced such small quantities (maybe to respect the reality that overestimating demand could be fatal to the company). Also, with the Model S it appears Elon was conservative with demand estimates, not wanting to overestimate demand. However, it seems like demand is surpassing expectations. To me, this means that Elon and co. will need to expand their expectations of demand 10 years out. In other words, they don't want to make the mistake of underestimating demand for Gen III. China is definitely the wildcard IMO, and I think they can sell far more Gen III vehicles in China than the even the U.S. (even though they'll sell a ton in the U.S., Europe, etc). China's market is just so big. I can see Tesla management already thinking about making a factory there to avoid foreign import tariffs that make the Model S more expensive. And then they can use that scale that factory at due time for Gen III production as well.

5. The market is ruthless to high-growth stocks that aren't growing as fast anymore
As much as investors will give incredible P/E multiples to fast growing companies that are in a trajectory toward dominance, the same investors (the market) are ruthless when a company underperforms and shows that their growth trajectory is slowing. When growth slows, this removes the compound growth incorporated into the company's future projections and dramatically shrinks the future potential market cap of the company, thus dramatically shrinks what kind of P/E multiple investors are willing to pay today. Though I'm not terribly worried about this risk because Tesla is playing in one of the world's biggest markets and has a ton of space to grow, this is serious risk in case Tesla fails to execute in a serious manner.

6. Final thoughts on TSLA price
In summary, my price targets (ie., Jan14 target) are my personal opinion and are assuming the market/economy remains decently strong, Tesla continues to execute, and demand remains robust. Some of the things that will help the stock continue it's epic rise IMO are:
1. High short interest remains, thus offering the inevitable reality of the shorts eventually covering and forcing available shares to become more scarce.
2. Tesla will likely grow in visibility as more and more people learn about the company and cars.
3. More Model S owners and friends will likely invest in the company.
4. More funds and institutions will invest in the company, especially after a 2nd profitable quarter.

Some challenges (besides economy/market and TSLA execution) to reaching my Jan14 price target are:
1. Bad news on European demand or U.S. demand stalls/shrinks.
2. Major safety defect or recall.
3. Analysts turn bearish in general affecting mood/sentiment around stock.
4. "Short TSLA" movement is successful in spreading FUD and executing short attacks on stock to turn mood negative.
(*there are a ton of other risks, you can read TSLA's annual report to view some more. :) )

Would love to hear your thoughts and share in more discussion. So, what do you guys think?

Great post as usual.

I agree with you that Tesla is still cheap right now, and I have no idea why people are still waiting/expecting a pull-back to buy in. If you want to buy in, then do it now. If you are waiting for a pull-back, then still buy in now and have some additional ammo on the side to buy in later if it does pull back.

If the stock is cheap at $150, then I see no reason why the stock would pull back so soon after another extraordinary earnings report. I think that a $250 price today would make me uncomfortable, but $150 is cheap and I have no worries at all.

If the stock does pull back to $120 - $130, then you guys waiting for a pull back are going to be the luckiest investors in the world. But investors are now starting to realize Tesla's potential and I don't see the market getting fooled twice. $200 will happen very shortly.
 
Would love to hear your thoughts and share in more discussion. So, what do you guys think?

Great analysis Dave...my whole thesis from the beginning of why I think this stock will continue to go up is that it is such an amazing product, best car out there by far and an EV. When people buy it they are likely to become long term investors in TSLA stock, i as a speculator but nice I owned it i bought a lot more and am now long term. You hit that point, but I just think that point is very under estimated by people in general. For example, I would be very surprised if the portfolio manager of the ContraFund didn't already own a Model S or have a very close family member or friend who has one. In the next 10k deliveries or so between now and the rest of the year I wouldn't be surprised if, not only tons of high net worth investors, but also a few other large Mutual Fund or Hedge Fund managers take delivery of the car and decide to put their institutional money at work into the stock as a result.

the bears keep saying the valuation is ridiculous, but if some publicly traded company built a magic flying carpet I'd buy some stock in that company no matter what the valuation was as I'd want a small piece of it. I'm sure bears would try to say the valuation was ridiculous and try to compare it to other normal carpet companies n that case too.
 
Great analysis Dave...my whole thesis from the beginning of why I think this stock will continue to go up is that it is such an amazing product, best car out there by far and an EV. When people buy it they are likely to become long term investors in TSLA stock, i as a speculator but nice I owned it i bought a lot more and am now long term. You hit that point, but I just think that point is very under estimated by people in general. For example, I would be very surprised if the portfolio manager of the ContraFund didn't already own a Model S or have a very close family member or friend who has one. In the next 10k deliveries or so between now and the rest of the year I wouldn't be surprised if, not only tons of high net worth investors, but also a few other large Mutual Fund or Hedge Fund managers take delivery of the car and decide to put their institutional money at work into the stock as a result.

I also think European funds/institutions can play a significant buying role in coming months as the Model S rolls out across Europe and they get to taste/own the car themselves. During the secondary offering ($92), I remember Elon mentioning that they had strong interest from European funds/institutions. That was kind of surprising to me but understandable since the economy is more tenuous in Europe than the U.S., I can see them being interested in a young, growing U.S. company like Tesla.

On a side note, it's interesting that fund/institutional ownership has always been quite high for TSLA (since I can remember). Here's a screenshot I took from May 7. Fund/institutional holdings was strong back then as it is now.

Also note, Contrafund reported 1.9mm shares as of 3/31 but as of 6/31, they reported 3.1mm shares. I can only imagine their holdings to grow considering Will Danoff's investment thesis in investing in young, growing companies. I like his quote, "I’m like a doctor whose patients are young, healthy and eating well. That should allow me to do a little bit better." (Danoff’s Contrafund Is Best of Biggest: Riskless Return - Bloomberg)

major-holders.png
 
If you watch the Google hangout with Elon and Richard Branson from the other day, he is pretty clear that the Hyperloop is for city pairs within 1000 miles. For further distances, he envisions a SSVTOLEP (super sonic vertical takeoff/landing electric plane).

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I'm with sleepy on this one. I think that many, including myself, were picturing a repeat of last quarter's squeeze given how right we were and how wrong the analysts were. Things that may have muted it were more people saw it coming (maybe because of this forum) as demonstrated by the run up to the Q2 report, the shorts doubled down, and the overall market the last few days also didn't help. And even still, we are just off the ATH. I'm expecting a nice bounce on Monday, especially if the overall market turns around.
Agreed, going higher Monday and this week.

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What are the chances of a split of the stock?
Slim to none and slim left town. Not going to happen . Historically stock splits do absolutely nothing for shareholder valve.
 
Here is my experience with tesla and tsla so far, and I haven't seen anyone point out the 2nd part. We currently own two older cars, one is 13 years old the other is 20. I paid $4500 for my current vehicle. My wife and I have become extremely financially responsible, if its not a need we usually pass (except for her clothes shopping!). We had been considering a new(er) car for a while and I'm a BMW fan and test drove a few. At one point we had plans to test drive the S but the BMW dealer was closer and the price of the Tesla was way more than I thought I would ever spend on a car.

Every time I test drove an ice it was so easy to walk away, no interest. It was no different from my current cars except newer and shinier, couldn't get myself to part with even 25k. We finally got a test drive in the Tesla and that was it, no more ice cars for us. We think the X works best for us so we are waiting. So, from two cars currently valued at an average of $5500 each to a 100k tesla? Yes. Recently mounted 8kw system on our house also, had been planning for it for 2 years.

There have been many stories like this on the forums, but I haven't seen this point made. I told my wife 5 minutes after we left we were buying stock. Yes, others have done that also, but I had only ever bought stock once in my life, $1500 of Nokia in the late 90's and only held it for a couple months and made a small profit. I've been more of a real estate investor.

So, the reason I post this in this thread is I think it affects the stock, how ever little that may be. I'm not only willing to spend 3-5x more on a Tesla than I ever thought I would on a new Ice car, I immediately opened a brokerage account and dropped a significant amount of money (relative of course) on tsla. One family member has already followed me into the stock. I plan to buy as much tsla as I can on any big dips and ride it out. I may play the volatility along the way if I can learn from others here how to do so, but I won't sell my core position for many years, and I can afford it to go to zero.

how many other similar stories are there? I'm guessing many.
 
What are the chances of a split of the stock?

Not likely. Stock splits were done back when brokerage commissions were less if stocks were bought in round lots of 100. Often splits were designed to push share prices down to about $20, so that a small investor could invest about $2000 without incurring a cost penalty. Now with computers handling orders there is no problem in dealing with odd lots. You could buy one share of TSLA on Friday's close for $153 with no penalty for it not being a round lot. Hence, no need for a split which could cause unnecessary complications.
 
Not likely. Stock splits were done back when brokerage commissions were less if stocks were bought in round lots of 100. Often splits were designed to push share prices down to about $20, so that a small investor could invest about $2000 without incurring a cost penalty. Now with computers handling orders there is no problem in dealing with odd lots. You could buy one share of TSLA on Friday's close for $153 with no penalty for it not being a round lot. Hence, no need for a split which could cause unnecessary complications.

Living in the golden era of Bank of Coca Cola.

These new fangled computers take the fun out of it..
 
Here is my experience with tesla and tsla so far, and I haven't seen anyone point out the 2nd part. We currently own two older cars, one is 13 years old the other is 20. I paid $4500 for my current vehicle. My wife and I have become extremely financially responsible, if its not a need we usually pass (except for her clothes shopping!). We had been considering a new(er) car for a while and I'm a BMW fan and test drove a few. At one point we had plans to test drive the S but the BMW dealer was closer and the price of the Tesla was way more than I thought I would ever spend on a car.

Every time I test drove an ice it was so easy to walk away, no interest. It was no different from my current cars except newer and shinier, couldn't get myself to part with even 25k. We finally got a test drive in the Tesla and that was it, no more ice cars for us. We think the X works best for us so we are waiting. So, from two cars currently valued at an average of $5500 each to a 100k tesla? Yes. Recently mounted 8kw system on our house also, had been planning for it for 2 years.

There have been many stories like this on the forums, but I haven't seen this point made. I told my wife 5 minutes after we left we were buying stock. Yes, others have done that also, but I had only ever bought stock once in my life, $1500 of Nokia in the late 90's and only held it for a couple months and made a small profit. I've been more of a real estate investor.

So, the reason I post this in this thread is I think it affects the stock, how ever little that may be. I'm not only willing to spend 3-5x more on a Tesla than I ever thought I would on a new Ice car, I immediately opened a brokerage account and dropped a significant amount of money (relative of course) on tsla. One family member has already followed me into the stock. I plan to buy as much tsla as I can on any big dips and ride it out. I may play the volatility along the way if I can learn from others here how to do so, but I won't sell my core position for many years, and I can afford it to go to zero.

how many other similar stories are there? I'm guessing many.

Hi Sub,

My story is somewhat similar to yours.. I am also a big BMW fan. Own two of them among some other brands. As soon as I drove the S this year, I put in a large sum of money into TSLA for the long term. Am looking to add more shares is various ways. Also convinced two of my family members to purchase TSLA as well. I am planning to buy a Model S when TSLA hits a certain price, just not yet, to keep fiscal discipline. Am having trouble ditching even some of my existing ICE cars as I've grown attached to them. :) I want to use the proceeds of the car sales to buy more TSLA, as one way of buying up more shares, which I know is the smart thing to do, but something is keeping me from pulling the trigger... I think it is "enjoy what you have now and don't get too hopeful or greedy"... Anybody else having to deal with a similar situation?
 
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