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Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2016

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I think the market is fed up with the promises like that, and rightly so. Model X took way longer to ramp than stated as it was never ready, TE is not going in volumes either so I think everyone is just waiting on real numbers.

I agree re the market's skepticism. I think the market's overreaction to the Model X ramp issues -- exacerbated by truckloads of FUD -- has colored almost everything that has happened since and IMO has created a fantastic buying opportunity. I have taken full advantage of it.;)
 
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It will move it but the question is how much. Just 2400 a week will not mean a ATH from these levels, maybe it would have an impact to get it to $250 again. For TE I think it can take it to next level but only if the revenue is substantial, at-least over $1B on yearly basis.

The problem now is that there is so much cost to cover, with SCTY even more so 2400 a week will go to cover that. The next big leap for the share I think has to come from new products than S and X. My original "investment thesis" or whatever you can call it had that increased S and X production and continued growth into 2017 and 2018 would push it to all time high because it would fund a large part of the CAPEX. That is probably still true but there is just a lot more CAPEX to fund now with Scty and Model 3 moved forward.

I am positive to both Scty and Model 3 production moving forward but I just don't think increased production of S and X are going to take us that much higher anymore.
I generally agree with you except for the need for CAPEX. I believe that Ron Baron is correct, that Tesla has reached the point where they are "capital light ". I'm thinking that the combination of MS-MX production and a substantial TE ramp will make that clear, but I might be incorrect on that.

I don't disagree with your $240-$250 SP, based on 2.4k weekly production, but for my portfolio that's enough for anytime between now and about March for me to sell my J17's and J18's, and to look for a good entry point for buying J19 LEAPS. I fully expect that by mid 2018 (probably earlier) that the M3 ramp will cause a big bump in the SP. I think earlier but it's to risky to count on that. So my challenge is to sell my current leaps at a profit and get a good entry point for the J19's.

A spike to >$400 due to a squeeze would be a huge help :D.
 
Following my 4th stop-loss event in 2 months, I took your advice about a week ago w.r.t. SCTY and bought about 25% as I also recovered TSLA shares .
It has had a moderating effect on TSLA for which I'm grateful.
I'm still setting stop-losses which I hope at some point will be trailing a rise back to $250+.
But, I'm losing faith in the DTU thesis due mostly to the SCTY offer. Short term, without some kind of significant volume, I'll trade some shares in the current range in an attempt to accumulate for a 2017 run-up.
Tesla is a puzzle. They're shipping more cars and executing better than when the share price was +$250 a mere 10 weeks ago yet here we are pushing down on $220 when the market is at ATH. Each quarter, 2 questions seem to grow for every answer provided.
Is there a merger timeline? I'll set my alarm.
Are we disbanding the DTU club?

Are we disbanding the DTU club?

I think DTU was predicated on the idea that they were trying to engineer a stock rise in 2H of 2016. That went out the window with the accelerated M3 plan, backing away from making FCF a goal on principal, and the SCTY merger talks.

It was a highly tactical tradeable situation that just didn't materialize. Elon and Wheeler seemed to be telling us DTU was going to happen, and instead said they are going to try to save the earth. Nice, but not tradeable in the short term.

Now I think we have "hockey stick up", or as I have called it before "the great lurch". There will have to be a big revaluation at least when M3 is in production and hitting the bottom line, but more likely before that. Figure it will be mid 2018 at the latest with only modest schedule slips. If TM hits there internal goals for the most part, there is no way we are still trading in the same range as now.

The problem is when. Who knows what the spark will be that lights it. The dry fuel has been accumulating for a long time.

Holding shares is wise. Even J18 leaps are not a sure thing, so option play is tough. J19 calls will be golden and priced accordingly.
 
I'll bite. That's some serious cherry picking. Prof Damodaran isn't a Tesla Bull by any stretch of the imagination. For the "realist" to cite him as one is like having the tea-party calling John McCain a liberal. Way too far down the wrong side.

What is useful from their site [and the only reason why I'm responding to X Yes?] is that Damodaran has raised his PT again on TSLA [to $250]. For those that don't remember, he originally valued TSLA at $67 in Sept 2013, which he revised to $120 in Mar 2014 after seeing new data. Both valuations were a half of what the market was setting the value at.

So has a professor teaching value investing found "value" in TSLA?! Sounds like a pretty clear case of being undervalued to me!!


Never mind. Turns out Damodaran is still a bear: Musings on Markets: Tesla: It's a story stock, but what's the story? :(
 
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I'd like to get the opinions of some more seasoned traders on this please:

We had a nice rally up on the rumor of Elon's "master plan pt2". However, based on the last 2 (looks like it'll be 3 with today) sessions, it seems as though bulls are becoming less sure of the immediate rally, especially since it's making lower highs and lower lows. This point is furthered when we consider the potential spinning top candle that formed on the 12th, indicating uncertainty. Seems like we could be in for a further downtrend, at least in the immediate SP, is this accurate?
 
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I'd like to get the opinions of some more seasoned traders on this please:

We had a nice rally up on the rumor of Elon's "master plan pt2". However, based on the last 2 (looks like it'll be 3 with today) sessions, it seems as though bulls are becoming less sure of the immediate rally, especially since it's making lower highs and lower lows. This point is furthered when we consider the potential spinning top candle that formed on the 12th, indicating uncertainty. Seems like we could be in for a further downtrend, at least in the immediate SP, is this accurate?


WTFKs
 
Let me go ahead a define a Tesla-SolarCity spread as $TSLA - $SCTY/exchange_rate. I assume exchange rate will be 0.122. (You can use a different exchange rate, if it suites your purpose or outlook better.) This spread represents the premium of a share of Tesla over SolarCity assuming a particular conversion rate.

As certainty increased about the deal going through at .122 conversion rate, this spread will shrink to zero. If certainty converges around a different exchange rate, then we can adjust the formula to that rate and make the same claim. So we'll want to be on the lookout for news that impact the certainty of the transaction or the ultimate exchange rate.

So at close of market the spread was $19.48 = $221.53 - $24.65/.122. Now with $TSLA at $220.02 and $SCTY at $24.74, the spread has narrowed to $17.23.

I take this narrowing of spread by $2.25 as a positive sign, but it needs to close much more is information comes to light.
 
I'd like to get the opinions of some more seasoned traders on this please:

We had a nice rally up on the rumor of Elon's "master plan pt2". However, based on the last 2 (looks like it'll be 3 with today) sessions, it seems as though bulls are becoming less sure of the immediate rally, especially since it's making lower highs and lower lows. This point is furthered when we consider the potential spinning top candle that formed on the 12th, indicating uncertainty. Seems like we could be in for a further downtrend, at least in the immediate SP, is this accurate?

Hard to say. I've been following this stock closely for a very long time, and this type of price action--drifting slightly lower and lower on super thin volume--has often preceded a major breakout to the upside.
 
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I'd like to get the opinions of some more seasoned traders on this please:

We had a nice rally up on the rumor of Elon's "master plan pt2". However, based on the last 2 (looks like it'll be 3 with today) sessions, it seems as though bulls are becoming less sure of the immediate rally, especially since it's making lower highs and lower lows. This point is furthered when we consider the potential spinning top candle that formed on the 12th, indicating uncertainty. Seems like we could be in for a further downtrend, at least in the immediate SP, is this accurate?

I see things differently. Since the runup after Elon announced a "master plan 2" is in the works, the bears have been throwing everything they can at TSLA, with no more effect than a loss of $1 plus change a day. My point is that this type of barrage is unsustainable from their side. See those 10,000-20,000 share (and occasionally 100,000+ shares) dips that are immediately forgotten and the SP returns to its normal trading range? Every time we see a selling barrage, the shorts have gotten deeper into TSLA. How do I know? An investor wishing to simply maximize his profit does not sell 20,000 or even 100,0000 shares in a matter of 4 seconds. Too many of the shares sell for lower amounts in such a case. The only reason to sell that many shares in a single burst is to either try to drive down the SP as a short or to respond to bad news that just hit the wire.To me, that resilience to strong bursts of selling is a bullish indication. It means that most longs aren't budging. Instead, they're waiting for Q3, which strongly looks like an epic increase in deliveries and an appropriate improvement in financials, too.

At some point it will become clear that Tesla is going to deliver greater than 24,000 vehicles in Q3, and the stock will jump nicely upward. My guess is that Elon will give an updated production number during the 2Q ER, which will neutralize the low numbers of Q2. Once the 2Q ER is out of the way, the stock has little reason not to climb. The problem with waiting on the sidelines for 2Q ER is that the stock may start heading higher before then, either from info released during the gigafactory event, or from positive news regarding the remainder of the year, released during the ER. So, sit on the sidelines at your own peril. Q3 is going to be good and the market isn't going to wait for the delivery numbers to officially be released before pushing TSLA higher.

Look also at the dilemma the shorts are in. After leveraging the autopilot story to the max, TSLA has barely budged this week. Meanwhile, interest rates for borrowing shares continue to climb, from about 21% at Fidelity to over 40% at some other brokerage houses. Shorts are getting nervous. They're pushing the FUD to the max to get a big break downward so that they can exit, and it isn't happening. All it takes is a big jump upwards, and you will see shorts bailing out of TSLA. Musk cannot afford to see TSLA fall below 215 because of the SEC issue with the autopilot, and so he will provide enough of a look into the future to keep the SP above 215. Don't you see this? Longs have minimal downside risk at this point unless there's a big surprise such as an unfavorable NHTSA ruling, but quite a bit of upside potential. I'm staying in.
 
The SCs that are currently overtaxed now with routine service and repairs COULD have issues delivery these vehicles. My local ( your local SC Vginsphun as well) appears on two recent visits to be maxed out.
My concerns could be unfounded. There are several solutions people have suggested. Put off regular service....there is already 6 week waits at many facilities. Go 24/7...Need more service techs and space to house the vehicles....possible.


In my area there is a separate service and delivery center. In all areas, service and delivery staff are separate anyway. Further, when my friend had his S delivered, it was done by a person who was hired through a temp agency. Finally, delivery personnel have definitely had times where they push super hard to work extra hours to deliver lots of cars and come up with surprises before. Delivery hasn't ever been the bottleneck before now, so while it is certainly possible that it might become one, I'm betting that it will work out fine.
 
I believe that Ron Baron is correct, that Tesla has reached the point where they are "capital light ".

Be careful about buying into that statement--if the SCTY deal goes through, Tesla will be raising ~2x as much as they did for the accelerated Model 3 ramp just to buy SCTY. And on top of it SCTY's business model in of itself is far more capital intensive than Tesla Motors/Energy.
 
I see things differently. Since the runup after Elon announced a "master plan 2" is in the works, the bears have been throwing everything they can at TSLA, with no more effect than a loss of $1 plus change a day. My point is that this type of barrage is unsustainable from their side. See those 10,000-20,000 share (and occasionally 100,000+ shares) dips that are immediately forgotten and the SP returns to its normal trading range? Every time we see a selling barrage, the shorts have gotten deeper into TSLA. How do I know? An investor wishing to simply maximize his profit does not sell 20,000 or even 100,0000 shares in a matter of 4 seconds. Too many of the shares sell for lower amounts in such a case. The only reason to sell that many shares in a single burst is to either try to drive down the SP as a short or to respond to bad news that just hit the wire.To me, that resilience to strong bursts of selling is a bullish indication. It means that most longs aren't budging. Instead, they're waiting for Q3, which strongly looks like an epic increase in deliveries and an appropriate improvement in financials, too.

At some point it will become clear that Tesla is going to deliver greater than 24,000 vehicles in Q3, and the stock will jump nicely upward. My guess is that Elon will give an updated production number during the 2Q ER, which will neutralize the low numbers of Q2. Once the 2Q ER is out of the way, the stock has little reason not to climb. The problem with waiting on the sidelines for 2Q ER is that the stock may start heading higher before then, either from info released during the gigafactory event, or from positive news regarding the remainder of the year, released during the ER. So, sit on the sidelines at your own peril. Q3 is going to be good and the market isn't going to wait for the delivery numbers to officially be released before pushing TSLA higher.

Look also at the dilemma the shorts are in. After leveraging the autopilot story to the max, TSLA has barely budged this week. Meanwhile, interest rates for borrowing shares continue to climb, from about 21% at Fidelity to over 40% at some other brokerage houses. Shorts are getting nervous. They're pushing the FUD to the max to get a big break downward so that they can exit, and it isn't happening. All it takes is a big jump upwards, and you will see shorts bailing out of TSLA. Musk cannot afford to see TSLA fall below 215 because of the SEC issue with the autopilot, and so he will provide enough of a look into the future to keep the SP above 215. Don't you see this? Longs have minimal downside risk at this point unless there's a big surprise such as an unfavorable NHTSA ruling, but quite a bit of upside potential. I'm staying in.

Thank you for your detailed analysis, I really appreciate it.

One thing that I could see pushing it down to a near $215 support level is if the "'master plan part 2" news is just an utter dud (since the rumor caused the runup in the first place, the whole buy the rumor/sell the news thing). I agree about Q3 and the reason few longs appear to be selling right now, but do you agree that underwhelming news from Elon concerning his plan could cause a sell off from weak longs?

Also, that certainly explains the weak selling volume, but what about weak buying volume? If it's true that it's holding due to anticipation of good Q3 results, wouldn't there be more buying/price action on the up side?

Not trying to contradict (remember I'm long too), just trying to figure things out the best I can. Thank you!
 
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I think you are minimizing the Autopilot story. This has only just begun. You've got CR on their case, Senate hearings, owners concerned that they will have to keep both hands on the wheel, etc. These problems stay in the news and effect stock prices for a long time. See GM and Chipoltle.

Think about your line of reasoning. Chipotle competes with other restaurants at every meal. Tesla's autopilot is questioned because it is solely capable of allowing substantial driver inattention. These stories would only hurt Tesla if there was an available competing autopilot that wasn't being criticized.

Yesterday I heard a Tesla autopilot story on a mainstream AM radio statio. Tesla being the lighting rod for car automation criticism is ideal from an investor standpoint.
 
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Think about your line of reasoning. Chipotle competes with other restaurants at every meal. Tesla's autopilot is questioned because it is solely capable of allowing substantial driver inattention. These stories would only hurt Tesla if there was an available competing autopilot that wasn't being criticized.

Yesterday I heard a Tesla autopilot story on a mainstream AM radio statio. Tesla being the lighting rod for car automation criticism is ideal from an investor standpoint.
Please don't reply to him, just fueling the fire.
 
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