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Shorting Oil, Hedging Tesla

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I looked at a Swedish mining equipment company and they have electric alternatives for loaders (link below) but not for drill rigs. The majority of the equipment is diesel though.

Electric loaders - epiroc

Tunneling and underground infrastructure - epiroc
Cool. This is great to see. It seems that minimizing ventilation costs is a key driver.

Electricity can obviously be brought in by cable, but I wonder if batteries could have some advantages. If your boring a 12 mile segment, that's an awful lot of cable to keep dragging in.
 
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How electric vehicles could help oil majors in the medium-term

Hypothesis is that oil companies do better when they underinvest. Combination of EV threat and weak market leads to low investment and higher profit.

Interesting article - I'm thinking the original report will make for even more interesting reading. If anybody finds a link that can be shared, please do so (my guess is its privileged content for Goldman Sachs clients / internal use). Whether the hypothesis proves true or not, the evidence and reasoning that goes with it sounds like it'd be a different and fascinating view into the market (at least to me).
 
How electric vehicles could help oil majors in the medium-term

Hypothesis is that oil companies do better when they underinvest. Combination of EV threat and weak market leads to low investment and higher profit.
I dunno. This looks like lemonade thinking. The idea is that EVs in the popular imagination are a bigger threat than they really are. That is, it is presuming that oil investors actually funding E&P activity are collectively overstating thia risk of EVs. From my vantage point this looks like the crowd that is actually least likely to overstate EV risk. Furthermore, the kinds of estimates they cite are only good for the impact of private passenger EVs, totally ignoring commercial EVs and other applicationa of large batteries that offset fuel demand. So this already understates demand erosion by some 80%.

Basically, I think this argument functions more as an irrational denial mechanism than sound reasoning. If you're threatened by the idea of disruption by EVs and don't want to simply accept that reality, you can project your fears on others. You start thinking that everyone else is so threatened by this nonsense that it will actually work to your advantage. Everyone else will shrink from the market, while you and a few other smart one keep plugging away at oil investments and reap a reward for steadfast belief in undying growth in demand. Yeah, that's a nice, emotionally reinforcing denial fantasy. Sadly, everyone in the industry has the same fantasy and thinks they're smarter than everyonelse in the industry.
 
I dunno. This looks like lemonade thinking. The idea is that EVs in the popular imagination are a bigger threat than they really are. That is, it is presuming that oil investors actually funding E&P activity are collectively overstating thia risk of EVs. From my vantage point this looks like the crowd that is actually least likely to overstate EV risk. Furthermore, the kinds of estimates they cite are only good for the impact of private passenger EVs, totally ignoring commercial EVs and other applicationa of large batteries that offset fuel demand. So this already understates demand erosion by some 80%.

Basically, I think this argument functions more as an irrational denial mechanism than sound reasoning. If you're threatened by the idea of disruption by EVs and don't want to simply accept that reality, you can project your fears on others. You start thinking that everyone else is so threatened by this nonsense that it will actually work to your advantage. Everyone else will shrink from the market, while you and a few other smart one keep plugging away at oil investments and reap a reward for steadfast belief in undying growth in demand. Yeah, that's a nice, emotionally reinforcing denial fantasy. Sadly, everyone in the industry has the same fantasy and thinks they're smarter than everyonelse in the industry.

What @jhm, you don't think everybody is smarter than average? You must be a mathemitician or something like that.
 
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What @jhm, you don't think everybody is smarter than average? You must be a mathemitician or something like that.
I went looking for quote about Lake Woebegon children, but found this instead.

6d73d51b1009eec08fade9f2a39f918a.jpg
 
I went looking for quote about Lake Woebegon children, but found this instead.

View attachment 289764

I love the Dunning-Kruger affect, or more precisely the idea. I've been providing people links to it for years as part of explaining and teaching a different topic. I haven't seen this graphic before - it'll make a much better visual for telling the story, that's for sure :)

There's a corollary that's interesting to me - guru's (from the graphic above) tend to underestimate how difficult something they've got training and experience in, is for others to do. "It's easy" is often not quite as easy as it's become in our mind.

And I figure the real kicker for us all to take away - whatever we do in life, there's something we do where we're the novice and still learning, and there's something else where we're the guru. We all live on all pieces of that curve in different areas of our life. Being aware of it can help mitigate the more extreme behaviors that can follow (from our noobness, and our guruness).
 
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Hopefully the economics of "free fuel" renewables will trump these unwise investments. New renewables are cheaper than running existing coal plants. Hope these investments go belly up.
It may not feel like consumer sentiment has moved much over the last few years, but I can tell you for a fact that everyday Americans are quickly waking up to the reality of fossil vs renewables. Not so much from a carbon perspective, but they're certainly coming around to the savings and macro economic impact. Even the geopolitical impact of a fuel-less world is sinking in.
 
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If SA does finally move off oil and onto solar for electricity, we could see 100k chunks of daily summer demand disappear until they supplant the 1Mb currently used each day in the summer.

SoftBank and Saudi Arabia are creating a huge solar power generation project - SoftBank and Saudi Arabia are creating a huge solar power generation project
What's interesting here is that this is one place where solar directly displaces crude demand. SA can increase crude exports at lower cost than oil development and without increasing production so as to impact product cut agreements.

A barrel of crude can produce about 0.56 MWh of electricity, but they've go potential for solar under $20/MWh. So they can replace a barrel of oil with about $11.25 worth of solar. And they can export that replaced barrel for about $64. Aside from trying to engineer a price for oil by withholding exports, this would be deep in no-brainer territory.
 
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What's interesting here is that this is one place where solar directly displaces crude demand. SA can increase crude exports at lower cost than oil development and without increasing production so as to impact product cut agreements.

A barrel of crude can produce about 0.56 MWh of electricity, but they've go potential for solar under $20/MWh. So they can replace a barrel of oil with about $11.25 worth of solar. And they can export that replaced barrel for about $64. Aside from trying to engineer a price for oil by withholding exports, this would be deep in no-brainer territory.
Exactly. People aren't taking the right perspective on all these Saudi moves.

Women aren't now allowed to drive because the royal family thinks it's a good progressive idea, they're doing it to "buy" loyalty. Solar isn't being implemented because they care about the foolishnesd of burning crude oil for electricity, they want to sell those barrels and pay for their electricity with financed solar.

Every effort to modernize or broaden their economy has fallen flat. They put every non-aligned business person in a hotel until they gave up a $150B ransom. Who in their right mind is going to locate anything in "the new saudi Arabia"?

So MBS might be at Bill Gates' house today, but nothing will come from these moves in the long run. They will very quickly need to just sell as much as possible. Do we really think a 10-20 year alliance with Russia will last once things get tough? No way.

Everyone will be pumping like mad for good within 18 months. Every gal for herself. Why wouldn't they?

This one seemingly small move will negate nearly half of all global growth for 2020-2022 if implemented. That's only one of the "thousand cuts".
 
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Exactly. People aren't taking the right perspective on all these Saudi moves.

Women aren't now allowed to drive because the royal family thinks it's a good progressive idea, they're doing it to "buy" loyalty. Solar isn't being implemented because they care about the foolishnesd of burning crude oil for electricity, they want to sell those barrels and pay for their electricity with financed solar.

Every effort to modernize or broaden their economy has fallen flat. They put every non-aligned business person in a hotel until they gave up a $150B ransom. Who in their right mind is going to locate anything in "the new saudi Arabia"?

So MBS might be at Bill Gates' house today, but nothing will come from these moves in the long run. They will very quickly need to just sell as much as possible. Do we really think a 10-20 year alliance with Russia will last once things get tough? No way.

Everyone will be pumping like mad for good within 18 months. Every gal for herself. Why wouldn't they?

This one seemingly small move will negate nearly half of all global growth for 2020-2022 if implemented. That's only one of the "thousand cuts".

I agree with this.

And it's also why when I hear about new investments by the O&G industry, I'm not really bothered. In the long run, which is going to become the short run sooner than I think many (though not as many in this thread) think, the market is going to shift to an every entity for itself situation.

I imagine a future arriving soon, that will be something like the Miss and Out style bike races:
Elimination race - Wikipedia

On the track, the last rider over the line every other lap is out of the race. That continues until the final two determine first and second place.


In this race, the entities with the lowest cost of production are in the lead, and as prices go down, the higher cost producers will start bankrupting and leaving the race. Their assets won't all disappear though - they'll get acquired for pennies and produced by somebody else.

The larger context still drives lower and lower oil prices. SA can make a good case (@jhm made it above) for building a whole host of solar for <$20/MWh because that replaces a lot of crude. That conversion is at something like $11/bbl - clearly they want to get $64/bbl from the export market, rathern than $11/bbl worth of internal value by making electricity with it.

That's one driver that is too small to control oil prices on its own, but is a driver that is even happy building solar to "create" oil all the way down to $20/bbl.

Who in the oil production market today is still happy producing and selling oil if it generates $20/bbl?
 
I like the miss and out elimination idea. I does seem to make sense for competitive market where prices keep falling, especially due to competition from alternatives. A country like Venezuela could become largely out because of financial, economic and infrastructural weaknesses. Infrastructural problems could be very interesting sources of elimination. For example, not all US oil plays have a cost efficient oil pipe line. So as prices come down fields with poor infrastructure could be eliminated from production sooner than others, even within the same country. I think this sort of thinking could lend insight into how to prepare for post peak oil. Right now, you want to be sure the right capital and infrastructural elements are in place so that you can weather prices continuing to fall.


When oil is at $20/b, production will fall pretty fast, but not fast enough!