Should EVs Make Artificial Sounds at Low Speeds?

[smartypnz]

Hmmmm.... thinking of strapping on a set of those canned air horns.

Who gets the blame for the heart failures?

 

[Rockster]

There are communities where people license their electric golf carts and drive them on public roads. Apparently, electric golf carts are not dangerous.

My in-laws live in such a community. The golf carts are permitted on the roads in the community and often times outnumber the ICE vehicles. Moreover, because it's a retirement community, every resident, by requirement, is over age 55. Most of them are considerably older than the minimum age and presumably possess hearing that is less acute than the age of the average pedestrian.

In nearly a decade that I've been going there I haven't heard a single thing about a resident being struck by a golf cart.

Later that same day: Yep. I just queried them and there hasn't been a single such injury since they moved there, nearly a decade ago.

 

[roblab]

....its something that is happening in most countries because it really does cause a problem.

Do you have any statistics for this? When I researched this a few months ago, pedestrian deaths were in large part due to people walking along beside a road with traffic going by at speed, at dusk. Pedestrians in cross walks are much rarer, and usually in a city setting where there is much extra noise. And the death rate data are, obviously, pretty much all of gas cars. There was nothing I could find that showed any extra danger of hearing or not hearing an EV. It is pretty much entirely the fig of the imaginewton, where people THINK this is what might happen. The lawmakers back it up to please the ignorant masses.

For people who are surprised when stepping off the curb, in nearly all cases it is in conjunction with inattention. Most cars cannot make enough noise to overpower the background noise.

It has always been a dumb idea.

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A pedestrian horn is enough.

Not always. A couple days ago I was walking across the parking lot to my car at Gilroy SC. An older couple were walking down the main roadway of the lot. As I passed them, I said, "There's a car coming behind you". They did not move. The car came up behind them and beeped the horn. They continued to saunter along, mindless. He finally edged around them.

I'm thinking a cow catcher, as on the old steam freight trains that went across cattle and sheep country. Toss 'em!

 

[thegruf]

well if I am forced to do this, then big Shelby V8 sans mufflers it is going to be.
Sort of this that frightens small children, and inspires everyone else even if they should know better

 

[Captain Ducman]

As a cyclist, I have a different perspective: I hate that some people feel like they can just walk across a traffic lane if they don't hear something coming. If you step in front of me when I'm pedaling at 25 mph, there's a real chance that we'll both wind up in the hospital. Road bikes behave very predictably, can be seen coming from a good distance away, and don't make sudden turns. but they're quite dangerous if you rely only on your ears. I was hoping EVs would disabuse people of that dangerous habit.

I wonder how long the noisemaker law would last if it applied to all bicycles, too.

In related news, I wish shouting "On your left!" didn't result in people looking over their left shoulder and inadvertently wandering into the traffic lane.

+100
dunno
+100

 

[cgiGuy]

The cicada "milling" noise is back on my car (second drivetrain) so I'm all set for this law.

 

[Pigsy]

If we're gonna have to do it, I vote going for the Falcon...

http://soundfxcenter.com/movies/star-wars/759f03_Millennium_Falcon_Fly_By_Sound_Effect.mp3

 

[paulkva]

I would have thought a recording that says "Excuse me - Tesla coming past, sorry about the noise, I am only making it due to some daft regulations, otherwise I would be happy to leave you in peace"

I recommend advertising as a sound. Rent your car sound to Staples, or better yet, to your local Shell station, and within no time, the law will be reversed. Just imagine every slow EV shouting out advertising slogans and special offers... .

Combining two ideas upthread, a proposed sound:
"This message is required by law. But now that I have your attention, let me tell you about this incredible Tesla Model S approaching you and how you too could own one..."
Tesla's first advertisements! ;-)

 

[liuping]

Combining two ideas upthread, a proposed sound:
"This message is required by law. But now that I have your attention, let me tell you about this incredible Tesla Model S approaching you and how you too could own one..."
Tesla's first advertisements! ;-)

I was thinking more along the lines of "Brought to you by Carl's Jr"

It sort of fits the Idiocracy of the whole thing.

 

[GregRF]

As a cyclist, I have a different perspective: I hate that some people feel like they can just walk across a traffic lane if they don't hear something coming. If you step in front of me when I'm pedaling at 25 mph, there's a real chance that we'll both wind up in the hospital. Road bikes behave very predictably, can be seen coming from a good distance away, and don't make sudden turns. but they're quite dangerous if you rely only on your ears. I was hoping EVs would disabuse people of that dangerous habit.

I wonder how long the noisemaker law would last if it applied to all bicycles, too.

In related news, I wish shouting "On your left!" didn't result in people looking over their left shoulder and inadvertently wandering into the traffic lane.

Hmm, as a cyclist and runner I use my ears a lot to know if a vehicle is sneaking up on me, or pulling out of a blind drive onto the road shoulder where I am traveling. So in that sense it is good to have some level of noise. It really depends on how this is implemented, I haven't seen a decibel level of frequency range discussed yet. But yes if this rule should go into effect it should apply to ICEs as well.

And to everyone complaining about the inattentive pedestrians, please remember that these same inattentive people also drive.

 

[tomas]

Hmm, as a cyclist and runner I use my ears a lot to know if a vehicle is sneaking up on me, or pulling out of a blind drive onto the road shoulder where I am traveling. So in that sense it is good to have some level of noise. It really depends on how this is implemented, I haven't seen a decibel level of frequency range discussed yet. But yes if this rule should go into effect it should apply to ICEs as well.

And to everyone complaining about the inattentive pedestrians, please remember that these same inattentive people also drive.

Yep, that is correct. Generally, courteous and attentive drivers will also be courteous and attentive bikers and pedestrians. On the contrary, someone who has to check there messages or twitter account every 30 seconds probably does it regardless of whether they are driving, walking, or biking. And someone who needs tunes to shut out the outside world probably has earphones while walking or biking, and audio on loud while driving. Same goes for the moron who has to narrate their entire life to someone over the phone.

The unfortunate thing is that when morons do moronic things, whether walking, biking, or driving, it is usually a courteous and attentive person who gets the shaft.

 

[Btrflyl8e]

Is this law not designed to protect the stupid? It seems to be aimed at preventing a pedestrian who would blindly walk into traffic from getting run over. Isn't that exactly the kind of person who should get run over according to Darwin? :smile:

Same thing as having to put "contents are hot" on a to go cup of coffee. "Don't use while bathing" on hairdryers. "Don't put on head" for plastic bags. Honestly, how did some people survive before these laws saved them from these perils?

If a pedestrian is using a crosswalk, shouldn't matter whether they can hear a car coming or not. If they are jaywalking, walking in the roadway, throughway in a parking lot, etc. this is a law to protect people who are not following other laws...

 

[Sgutz]

Same thing as having to put "contents are hot" on a to go cup of coffee. "Don't use while bathing" on hairdryers. "Don't put on head" for plastic bags. Honestly, how did some people survive before these laws saved them from these perils?

I can only conclude from this law that the world will eventually be dominated by the deaf. They appear to be the only people smart enough to look before crossing the street. Might as well poke an ice pick through your eardrums now so you have a chance of surviving.

I honestly hope the Canadian government doesn't follow suit here. One silly set of legislators on the planet is more than enough.

 

[davecolene0606]

What I wrote on the comments sections:
There have been no accidents described in the proposed rule attributed to an EV and no demonstration that and EV or HEV is any more or less noisy than an ICE. If this rule is truly about a "minimum" noise level then that level must be established and every vehicle covered by the rule needs to meet it or comply with the rule.


The formulation of this rule is clearly capricious and arbitrary in both its formulation and proposed implementation and does not even address the alleged issue. The rule either must to be implemented or rewritten to include all vehicles and a testing protocol for every individual model of vehicle separately due to the high variability of sound characteristics of each vehicle. This should include and not be limited to different combinations of tires to account for the difference in noise made by a particular tread pattern.


The rule unfairly singles out a single category of vehicles on a characteristic that is demonstrably shared by many vehicles. No testing has been demonstrated otherwise which further invalidates the "demonstrated need" for this rule.

Feel free to copy and paste and send it to your reps as well.

Fire Away!

 

[JST]

The problem is that establishment of a standard for EVs and hybrids is dictated by statute. You can't persuade the agency not to issue the rule; it's mandated by law.

 

[Blathering1]

The requirement that pedestrians can recognize the sound as coming from a motor vehicle is challenging. While they specifically say that it does not need to mimic an ICE, most motor vehicles are ICE, and that is the sound we expect to hear.

Of note: anyone up for supporting an olfactory requirement as well? The stink of exhaust lets you know a vehicle is present without sight or sound.


"The alert sound must also reflect the agency's determination of the performance requirements necessary to ensure that each vehicle's alert sound is recognizable to pedestrians as that of a motor vehicle in operation" ...

The requirement that the agency develop performance requirements for recognizability means that the pedestrian alert sound required by this standard must include acoustic characteristics common to all sounds produced by vehicles driven by mechanical power that make those sounds recognizable as a motor vehicle based on the public's experience and expectations of those sounds.

 

[Ugliest1]

Or we could go all Floss Stingel on them:

http://youtu.be/K9_HOjNN4uk

 

[SW2Fiddler]

The notion of my car Pearlie May whispering to all in earshot, "Contents are HOT," made me spit my coffee.
Flattery will get you everywhere! :redface:

 

[Btrflyl8e]

Hahahahahaha!!!!

 

[bwa]

That's what I hate too. If they set a baseline minimum noise level that applies to all cars, I would have no complaints (I would love to see Rolls Royce having to add sound to their cars before they can legally sell it just to be fair). But they chose to only apply to EVs and hybrids.

The report actually readily admits they haven't studied whether quiet ICE are detectable by pedestrians, but they are going to force EVs and hybrids to add noisemakers first anyways.

Legislatures and rulemakers need a report for this? My hearing is very good, and I've been almost run over by ICE's that are far too quiet on many many occasions as a pedestrian. What the hell is their lifestyle they haven't run into this often?

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Is this law not designed to protect the stupid? It seems to be aimed at preventing a pedestrian who would blindly walk into traffic from getting run over. Isn't that exactly the kind of person who should get run over according to Darwin? :smile:

Anyone who has ever been stuck in noisy rush hour traffic in any metro downtown area will know how stupid this law is. You could drive a tank in Manhattan in rush hour and no one would hear it. Ironically if they passed laws to make cars quieter, fewer people in areas with high pedestrian traffic would get killed because they'd actually have a chance of hearing cars coming their way.

I agree completely. Worse, it causes the total noise level of the road to go up, causing the total quality of life to go down.