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Should EVs Make Artificial Sounds at Low Speeds?
- Thread starter Brent
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- Electric Vehicles
doctorwho
Active Member
Imagine the roads full of EVs, peak hour traffic travelling slowly at 25km/hr, each car loudly shrieking its presence...
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
I suggest this rule is accompanied by the strictest enforcement possible: there has to be mandatory sensor that detects whether the ABNANGD (annoying but necessary artficial noise generating device) has been disconnected by the driver. If that is the case, EPSS (emergency pedestrian saving software) will shut down the car immediately and for good. Voila, problem solved, because a non-driving car is even safer than a non-sound-making car. :tongue:
Seriously though, the Renault Zoe has an artificial noise generator for speeds up to 30 km/h (very weird sound which you also hear inside the cabin), but fortunately, at least for now, the driver can choose whether he wants the car to emit that sound or not.
I don't understand why folks are so surprised on this. As a new Tesla owner, and reading these and other forums, one of the more common comments is how their Tesla often surprises folks when it goes to start moving. I can't count the number of times I have seen people literally "jump" when my car starts to move from a stationary position.
After almost 100 years of conditioning, people (and even Tesla people) are use to non visual cues to navigate the world around us. One of those is the noise that cars and other vehicles make. Sound is one of our senses to understand the world.
Now we have something truly disruptive entering it: a multi ton vehicle that can cause serious injury. The normal cues we have to notice it are severely hampered.
Yes, we are taught to look both ways before crossing the street. However when standing next to a stationary car, if its not making noise, we assume its NOT TURNED ON. Which leads us to behave in other ways around it.
So in the end, I fully support this idea. In fact, I believe its mandated in Japan as well.
Finally, remember that not everyone has full hearing capacity. Silent cars pose a danger to anyone that is blind or has severe sight loss. In the end, I find myself tapping the horn on my Tesla when near pedestrians right before I take off. Or rolling the window down and letting them know my car is about to start moving. I've had too many instances in just the last two months where people will literally step in front of my car because they assume its not turned on.
CharlesJR
After almost 100 years of conditioning, people (and even Tesla people) are use to non visual cues to navigate the world around us. One of those is the noise that cars and other vehicles make. Sound is one of our senses to understand the world.
Now we have something truly disruptive entering it: a multi ton vehicle that can cause serious injury. The normal cues we have to notice it are severely hampered.
Yes, we are taught to look both ways before crossing the street. However when standing next to a stationary car, if its not making noise, we assume its NOT TURNED ON. Which leads us to behave in other ways around it.
So in the end, I fully support this idea. In fact, I believe its mandated in Japan as well.
Finally, remember that not everyone has full hearing capacity. Silent cars pose a danger to anyone that is blind or has severe sight loss. In the end, I find myself tapping the horn on my Tesla when near pedestrians right before I take off. Or rolling the window down and letting them know my car is about to start moving. I've had too many instances in just the last two months where people will literally step in front of my car because they assume its not turned on.
CharlesJR
Well, if they've done it in Japan...
Seriously? What kind of justification is that? I can almost hear every parent in the world saying something like "If Japan jumped off a bridge..."
Every car on the road fits that description.
Just how loud a noise does a car have to make to be heard by a deaf person?
doctorwho
Active Member
maybe it could sound like a Jetsons car, that might boost sales:smile:
Perhaps the theme from Star Wars or even a USS Enterprise noise - switch on insane mode and it makes the 'warp' noise when you start moving
Perhaps the theme from Star Wars or even a USS Enterprise noise - switch on insane mode and it makes the 'warp' noise when you start moving
The Fisker Karma did this, at least in Europe (even though it was hybrid with a gas motor too).
Fisker Karma - Futuristic noise! - YouTube
It's a stupid law, but I can get the point. Personally I want mine to sound like a TIE fighter.
Fisker Karma - Futuristic noise! - YouTube
It's a stupid law, but I can get the point. Personally I want mine to sound like a TIE fighter.
In theory is not a horrible idea, but the reality is that non-Tesla EV owners can attest that the artificial noise doesn't do a thing to alert people to the car's presence.
People are conditioned to hear engine noises. A passive non-engine noise doesn't alert people to the presence of a car.
I think every BEV manufacturer knows that a passive engine noise would turn off potential buyers, so most have low-key or even custom "motor noises". I.e., the smart ED's noise generator makes the car sound like a Star Trek vessel going to warp when you slam the accelerator.
I do think people are overblowing the negative impacts of this, but at the same time there's really no tangible benefits to it either. I think the Volt has the best solution out there and I really wish the punitive EV auto-lobby would at least realize that there are better solutions already out there.
As a LEAF driver for four years who just moved over to the tesla, I see the as solving the wrong problem. When my car is in motion that doesn't generally surprise a lot of people. A car is supposed to be in motion. We've learned that. What does surprise them is when I'm sitting still. They have no warning that the car is about to move. Nothing gives the hint that this 2 ton vehicle is prepared to launch. In forward or reverse. It's almost as if "idling" is when we surprise pedestrians.
In the late 1800's, a man waving a flag had to walk in front of motor driven vehicles in England. The official stand was, that without the noise of the horses, thousands of pedestrians would get killed by horseless carriages. But it was a trick: by demanding that someone walks in front of the vehicle, it would be limited in speed, giving conventional coaches the advantage, protecting the status quo.
Nothing else is going on here: by requiring silly sounds, EV drivers are being ridiculed, given more power to ICE's and the status quo. But just as the man waving the flag is no longer required in the UK, eventually, everyone will have gotten used to quiet cars, and we can switch off the noise makers.
In the mean time, I recommend advertising as a sound. Rent your car sound to Staples, or better yet, to your local Shell station, and within no time, the law will be reversed. Just imagine every slow EV shouting out advertising slogans and special offers... .
Nothing else is going on here: by requiring silly sounds, EV drivers are being ridiculed, given more power to ICE's and the status quo. But just as the man waving the flag is no longer required in the UK, eventually, everyone will have gotten used to quiet cars, and we can switch off the noise makers.
In the mean time, I recommend advertising as a sound. Rent your car sound to Staples, or better yet, to your local Shell station, and within no time, the law will be reversed. Just imagine every slow EV shouting out advertising slogans and special offers... .
Shawn Snider
Member
Natural-F****n'-Selection IMHO.... If you can't LOOK left AND right before going out onto a roadway.... Hell, even if the car made a sound, I'm pretty sure the little toddler will still walk out onto the road, Curiosity is one of our great traits.
^---- Fence your kids in or leash them to the tree in the yard.....
I'm still alive and kickin' and I had to bike 6km to my first job on the Trans-Canada-Highway when I was 12. Pay attention to your surroundings and be careful? Time's are a changing when you have to make new road sign's telling the r-tards with phones to LOOK UP AND PUT THE PHONE DOWN BEFORE CROSSING THE STREET....... Natural Selection in it's greatest form. F****n' idiot's everywhere, can't fix stupid.
^---- Fence your kids in or leash them to the tree in the yard.....
I'm still alive and kickin' and I had to bike 6km to my first job on the Trans-Canada-Highway when I was 12. Pay attention to your surroundings and be careful? Time's are a changing when you have to make new road sign's telling the r-tards with phones to LOOK UP AND PUT THE PHONE DOWN BEFORE CROSSING THE STREET....... Natural Selection in it's greatest form. F****n' idiot's everywhere, can't fix stupid.
chriSharek
Member
Amen!! my mom use to always say look both ways before you cross the street not listen both ways before you cross the street!
The problem here is that it is vastly harder to repeal a law than it is to pass one. I thin the key to defeating this mess of a law is to require all vehicles be equipped with this. Most premium ICE cars are super quiet at low speeds.
Merrill
Merrill
It is not even about listening, I was driving down my country road yesterday in my F-150 and there was a person walking in the same direction as I was going with his back to me. He was about 4 feet into a 12 foot road and never moved over I had to slow down and wait for him to move which he never did so came very close to him. I will not go off the shoulder to go by and this situation happens all the time. Many time I have people look at me when I drive by like" what are you doing on this road" as if the road is for people not cars and I drive very slowly down this road. So this is a stupid law and will accomplish nothing other than noise pollution.
EarlyAdopter
Active Member
Then any noise making law for silent idling should apply equally to ICE cars with start-stop functionality that turns off the engine when idling at a stop.
Of course, law makers convienently overlook that. That's because this law is clearly not intended to solve any problem other than EVs getting more popular.
SteveS0353
Member
Vip
Member
I agree with most everyone here that I do not like the idea of our cars making noise. Also agree with the fact that someone who has all functioning five senses steps in front of a car because they are not paying attention deserves whats coming to them.
The only people I see this law helping are the individuals that are blind. They depend upon auditory cues to help them around public places. I would hope that a person driving is paying enough attention to avoid any possible collision. Unfortunately accidents will happen when you are not expecting someone (a blind person) to step out on the road and you are beyond the point of stopping safely. WHEN electric cars become more popular and affordable then that means more teenagers and young drivers in electric cars which as we know have a higher rate of accidents because of inexperience and distracting driving.
As long as I can't hear it in the car then that is fine with me.
Also if the noise is at least quieter than an ICE car then noise pollution will be reduced.
If there is going to be a law for minimum noise then there needs to be one for maximum noise allowed.
The only people I see this law helping are the individuals that are blind. They depend upon auditory cues to help them around public places. I would hope that a person driving is paying enough attention to avoid any possible collision. Unfortunately accidents will happen when you are not expecting someone (a blind person) to step out on the road and you are beyond the point of stopping safely. WHEN electric cars become more popular and affordable then that means more teenagers and young drivers in electric cars which as we know have a higher rate of accidents because of inexperience and distracting driving.
As long as I can't hear it in the car then that is fine with me.
Also if the noise is at least quieter than an ICE car then noise pollution will be reduced.
If there is going to be a law for minimum noise then there needs to be one for maximum noise allowed.
Gizmotoy
Active Member
Right. I'm all for some kind of noise that can alert pedestrians I'm there when driving around parking lots and exiting parking spots. I get stuck behind clueless pedestrians not paying attention and who don't know I'm there all the time. I'd prefer to be able to turn it on and off as necessary, but whatever.
That said, this isn't a uniquely EV-based problem. Many hybrids have the exact same issue. Even many non-hybrid ICE vehicles now shut down the engine at idle to conserve fuel. And even if the engine stays running, some are now so quiet I'm not even sure you'd hear them unless you were directly in front of the car.
The rule should either not exist, or apply equally to all vehicles. Anything less than that is stupid.
Note that this rule making was mandated by the Pedestrian Safety Enhancement Act of 2010, which directed DOT to promulgate rules to apply to BEVs and hybrids.
Note also that the PSEA also requires DOT to study whether the rules it adopts should also apply to conventional vehicles.
Text of S. 841 (111th): Pedestrian Safety Enhancement Act of 2010 (Passed Congress/Enrolled Bill version) - GovTrack.us
Takeaways--this is a problem that dates back to 2010, and unless you pass another law you aren't going to prevent these administrative rules from taking effect, and
-it may well end up applying to all cars.
Note also that the PSEA also requires DOT to study whether the rules it adopts should also apply to conventional vehicles.
Text of S. 841 (111th): Pedestrian Safety Enhancement Act of 2010 (Passed Congress/Enrolled Bill version) - GovTrack.us
Takeaways--this is a problem that dates back to 2010, and unless you pass another law you aren't going to prevent these administrative rules from taking effect, and
-it may well end up applying to all cars.
