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Should I switch from PG&E TOU-C to EV2-A rate if I have solar + pw?
- Thread starter tfan2018
- Start date
The rate comparison tools offered by PG&E only uses historical data. I used to construct elaborate spreadsheets to do what if scenerios to ssee which rate was best. You could simplify assumptions but crunching numbers on a spreadsheet is the only way I know to get a rough order of magnitude.
I think this all depends on how you view your annual NEM true up balance for your normal home loads and how exposed you are to drawing peak energy during the Winter.
If you are a net generator by a country mile without any issue covering your EV charging with solar generation (via NEM credits), stay with E-TOU-C. You literally have zero reason to switch to EV2A because of how much solar you have and how you aren't taking much net import from the Grid. So you'd have little benefit from the lower off-peak EV2A rates.
If you are net zero on your core home usage (excluding EV charging), you use NG for heat, and your EV charging makes you a net importer, you are a good candidate to switch to EV2A. Your normal annual home loads are "NEM neutral", and your powerwalls can phase the TOU impact so you don't take imports at peak rates for normal home loads. But you'll want to be on EV2A to benefit from the EV charging at off-peak.
BUT. If you use electric to heat your home without mega-oversized-solar-production-for-juicy-NEM-credits, stay on E-TOU-C. This is because heating a home takes so much electricity during the winter. Your Powerwalls will be insufficient to phase your energy profile. With cloudy days and the low-production-winters, you will frequently take power from the Grid at peak to heat your home if you're using electric heating. EV2A would be very bad unless you were charging your EV to drive like 10,000 miles a year or something. Peak rates for imports could be 2x what you were banking with off-peak exports in the summer time. You'll get hosed running your non-EV home loads in the Winter even with Powerwalls.
If you are a net generator by a country mile without any issue covering your EV charging with solar generation (via NEM credits), stay with E-TOU-C. You literally have zero reason to switch to EV2A because of how much solar you have and how you aren't taking much net import from the Grid. So you'd have little benefit from the lower off-peak EV2A rates.
If you are net zero on your core home usage (excluding EV charging), you use NG for heat, and your EV charging makes you a net importer, you are a good candidate to switch to EV2A. Your normal annual home loads are "NEM neutral", and your powerwalls can phase the TOU impact so you don't take imports at peak rates for normal home loads. But you'll want to be on EV2A to benefit from the EV charging at off-peak.
BUT. If you use electric to heat your home without mega-oversized-solar-production-for-juicy-NEM-credits, stay on E-TOU-C. This is because heating a home takes so much electricity during the winter. Your Powerwalls will be insufficient to phase your energy profile. With cloudy days and the low-production-winters, you will frequently take power from the Grid at peak to heat your home if you're using electric heating. EV2A would be very bad unless you were charging your EV to drive like 10,000 miles a year or something. Peak rates for imports could be 2x what you were banking with off-peak exports in the summer time. You'll get hosed running your non-EV home loads in the Winter even with Powerwalls.
Great topic. I just got into the same boat. Got tesla panels + one pw. On ev2-a and Tesla wants to switch me to touc. I’m at 85% annual generation. I feel like ev2-a is still best but not sure if I export to pge that it requires me to change to touc. Pge website shows ev2-a plan is most economical for me but of course it doesn’t know I charge 2 teslas, have solar and pw. There’s some clause in my approval to change that I can’t go back to other plan.
@BritneySpears With PG&E, solar, and Powerwalls, I don't believe that you have any choices besides EV2-A and EV2-B, and the latter only if you install a second meter for the EV charging.
I went through this, and EV2-A wasn't as good as my prior rate, but there was no other choice.
Sorry.
All the best,
BG
I went through this, and EV2-A wasn't as good as my prior rate, but there was no other choice.
Sorry.
All the best,
BG
Nosken
Active Member
This app for iPhone will access your account (with permission) and show you your generation and usage prospectively across all rate plans.
My PG&E Toolkit Lite
My PG&E Toolkit Lite
Attachments
I’ve spent A Lot of time downloading PG&E data, building pivot tables, analyzing usage & production data, rate plans, TOU vs self generation modes, etc. I’ve gained a lot of insights, but I have to admit at the end of the day I’m not sure I’m any better off than when I started and I’m left scratching my head wondering what the best rate plan / operating modes are for my situation.
i see a consulting business opportunity here. If someone could develop a credible and accurate way to analyze each individual‘s situation, I see a market demand for that consultation.
one comment on the PG&E analysis software that was mentioned in the previous pos… I know nothing about it, but look at the user ratings and comments. Based on those, I’d be hesitant to buy it.
ETOU C is only available with medical baseline requirements after you install powerwalls. This was accurate as of a year ago, when I switched to EV2A.
Not significantly better, but ETOUC is a more mild TOU, that has a higher baseline.
EV2A has a lower baseline, but a higher peak. EV2A is certainly better for large PV exporters, especially late afternoon production as the peak rates are very attractive to backfeed power as long as you can.
I offset about 80% of my usage a year, and EV2-A is much better for me than ETOU-C because the Powerwalls offset most of my non-off-peak use. The extra NEM credits I can bank during the peak time mean I'm able to get what I owe down close to my minimum charges over the year. I do have gas heat, so winter heating isn't an issue.
Note that unless you owe money at true-up extra NEM credits are worthless, so if you produce more than you consume, it probably won't matter much what rate you're on.
Note that unless you owe money at true-up extra NEM credits are worthless, so if you produce more than you consume, it probably won't matter much what rate you're on.
Yeah I would think ev2a is best option for solar, 1 pw, and 1 or more EVs that only charge off peak. Thanks for the onfo
I believe that ETOU C is available to anyone operating up to 2 Powerwalls (more accurately <10kW discharge capability and <150% of solar capacity). We are on ETOU C with PTO on Dec 18, 2020. We don't have any EVs.
I think any time-of-use plan is required for NEMPS2, Tesla shifted me to ETOUC from E-1 when my solar roof was installed in Feb 2021, I was on it for a year until PG&E gave me a SGIP check and moved me to EV2A, if I had turned down the SGIP rebate I could choose ETOUC, ETOUD OR EV2A. My best option now is to switch from Self-Powered to Time-Based since my cumulative NBC was less than my MDC and I exported more than my grid use, I set peak from 3pm to 12am and schedule charge my car after 12am.
@Vines or @dareed1 Do you know where this is any documentation that certain tariffs are only available to certain solar+ESS configuration? I don't recall seeing anything either than you need to be on a TOU tariff when my system was installed and I'm on E-TOU-C with 2 Powerwalls. I have seen multiple comments here about this, but no hard info from PG&E or CPUC.
I had a email from my installer prior to the final SGIP inspection that listed the change to EV2-A/B as a requirement to proceed, and instructions to get a number (process record of the transition) from PG&E. It was recommended to me that I call PG&E directly to ensure that I received the magic number when they switched the tariff.
Perhaps it is a SGIP requirement?
All the best,
BG
Perhaps it is a SGIP requirement?
All the best,
BG
I do not have a reference but my Interconnection department was very clear that Either EV2A or ETOUC (with medical baseline) were my 2 options.
