Knightshade
Well-Known Member
By pointing out facts and math?
Once again your definitions of things do not reflect reality.
Which is weird you keep calling me a troll since I am literally saying the same thing in the sentence you quoted there
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Snippiness 2.0
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By pointing out facts and math?
Once again your definitions of things do not reflect reality.
Which is weird you keep calling me a troll since I am literally saying the same thing in the sentence you quoted there
powertoold
Active Member
The description "designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver's seat" cannot be interpreted as "can't ever NEED action."
Attention isn't necessarily an "action" in the context of driving. While driving, you take action by braking, accelerating, steering, etc.
Tesla's statement leaves room for a spectrum of interpretation. Like I said before, Tesla can claim that taking action is synonymous with intervening. That's why you can't say it's level 4, since it leaves out many requirements of a level 4 system, as I said before.
The fsd beta description coincides with Elon's prior tweet about fsd beta:
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Yes, it can.
That's why "designed" is in the sentence.
The DESIGN of the system is for it to do that without any action required from a human.
That is literally the definition of an L4 or L5 system.
I'm not sure if repeating this fact for the 79th time will be any more effective than the first 78 but here we are.
It is in the context of what the word "action" means.
Or in the context of the SAEs levels of automation.
Have you actually read the SAE J3016 document? Because it REALLY doesn't look like it.
Except, they can't, because that's not what any of those words actually mean.
"action"- the fact or process of doing something
Actively supervising is an action.
The LOWEST level that never REQUIRES ACTION from the person in the drivers seat is L4.
There's no "room" for anything there. It's in the SAE spec.
powertoold
Active Member
I have. We previously had a discussion about level 5 where you had the wrong interpretation for L5. I think it's a stretch to interpret the fsd description you posted as level 4. No where does it mention the requirements.
You interpret the fsd description as "can't ever require action," but if that were the case, the fsd description would have mentioned being able to sleep in the car or no one in the driver's seat. This is the major requirement for level 4.
The fsd description also doesn't mention anything about pulling over in certain situations where the car has an issue or is incapable of navigating.
Elon describes fsd beta as "capable of zero intervention" trips. That's how I'd interpret the fsd description.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Uh, yes it does.
SAE J3016.
No, I don't.
I read the ACTUAL WORDS about DESIGN of the system requiring no action by the person in the drivers seat.
That is BY DEFINITION L4 or L5.
Maybe since words aren't getting across the concept, a picture will help.
In red you have SAE telling you what the PERSON IN THE DRIVER SEAT must do at each level.
Only at L4 or L5 is nothing required of them.
powertoold
Active Member
No, that graphic is a dumbed down version for lay people. Again, you have to use the actual 30+ page document you mentioned. You must know L5 doesn't require anyone in the driver's seat, so why does that SAE graphic mention it for L5?....
The fsd description isn't level 4, sorry.
You have to understand the implications of a level 4 system:
A blind person can use a level 4 system
L4 cannot ever require someone to drive (within its geofence). This means if a blind person is in the car, there needs to be a support structure, like roadside assistance (see Waymo).
The fsd description doesn't mention any of this. There's also no "more detailed" document that describes fsd, such that it conforms to L4. The fsd description also doesn't mention any of the SAE levels.
Best to just ignore someone like this as you don't know which of his other so called facts are made up.Always amused when someone is called out for posting misinformation and they try to steer the discussion away from it
I’m guessing 63AMG is going to disagree with you, but I agree with youMy dates just disappeared again. Had June 07 - 27 for a week now. You would expect a better order tracking system from a company that makes futuristic self driving cars.
shrineofchance
she/her, they/them
Bladerskb, why are you so obsessed with me? It's kind of creepy. Who even are you?
I'm also surprised! I really felt there was a high chance another company, especially GM after the Cruise acquisition, would see what Tesla is doing and emulate it. I guess not (so far).
I'm also surprised! I really felt there was a high chance another company, especially GM after the Cruise acquisition, would see what Tesla is doing and emulate it. I guess not (so far).
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I have over 2k posts in the forum...are you okay? This is your response to spreading misinformation? This is your response to Xpeng ALONE having over 25k P7 in their fleet collecting data with 12x cameras, 5x 5th gen radars, 12 ultrasonics?
shrineofchance
she/her, they/them
You can't stop talking about me and it's creepy and stalker-y. You seem obsessed with me. It's bizarre and a little scary.
You start a thread that is pro Tesla autonomy lead full of your own opinions, and a well known skeptic of this position posts a opposite opinion and your response is "why are you obsessed with me"? That seems like a pretty transparent attempt to avoid discussing the exact topic you started with anyone that doesn't agree with you.
shrineofchance
she/her, they/them
No, it's just this one creepy person who obsessively responds to everything I post (going on years) and frequently posts weirdly personal things about me on this forum. He honestly seems unwell and it creeps me out.
Some people here have even said that during some past times I stopped using the forum, he disappeared as well, as if he was only on the forum specifically because of me. (That was their interpretation, not mine.)
He also enabled and goaded on my stalker. They got along great. The stalker was someone who came on this forum specifically to harass me and who contacted me repeatedly using multiple accounts on TMC and every other platform I was on. The stalker claimed to have tracked down where I live, physically threatened me, and made pages and pages of disturbing and highly personal rants on TMC and elsewhere. Bladerskb totally went along with the stalker when he posted about me on TMC.
It's beyond the scope of an intellectual discussion (which is not something he seems interested in or capable of) and into the realm of unsettling and inappropriate behaviour. Including bullying and transphobia.
Anyone else who wants to have a civil, non-personal intellectual discussion I'm happy to engage with.
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@ohmman @jjrandorin
Don’t know whose the mod here but are false accusations and personal attacks allowed here? Especially someone on their third account...
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YieldFarmer
Analytic.eth
And my point is that anyone who has a battery that's concerned about failure should probably sell the piece of crap and move on rather than risk the value going to zero and spending $22k+ to make it usable again. So far we have a statistical sample of one wrt a resale of an out of warranty model S with a recently replaced battery. Appears to add, maybe, $10k in resale value. Still negative $12k.
Some here are very good at doing Elon Musk pretend-fictitious-in-the-sky math where a hole in one's pocket is worn like a badge of honor. Maybe you've been gaslighted for so many years you can't tell the difference anymore.
Perhaps if you had more knowledge about the stunning level of flat out evil involved with leather, and how animal “production” places all life on this planet in peril, you would lose all interest in sitting on the skins of murdered animals?
Let us hope….
S3XY1138
Member
no s**t Sherlock. All Your posts can be put under scrutiny also with much to be said...what’s your point??? Lolz
casey1202
Member
My point is that it seems like every time anyone posts something that suggests the headlights aren’t coming to the LR models, you are quick to respond with reasons (many of them unfounded) as to why they are. Your identical replies to two people reminding us it’s 2021 and Tesla is a big company that can easily make changes came across as condescending. At least that was my perception. If that wasn’t your intention then my apologies and no worries.
Perhaps if you had more knowledge about the stunning level of flat out evil involved with leather, and how animal “production” places all life on this planet in peril, you would lose all interest in sitting on the skins of murdered animals?
Let us hope….
Please just go away and get off your soap box, unless you have something constructive to add. The only posts I ever see from you are (what I would consider to be) radical views on the environment and now leather, without anything even close to constructive coming from your keyboard.
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