So… Highland is out…

[FastLaneJB]

Yes it does just feel half baked and they’ve only done the bare minimum on this one for the car to be legal. I fully expect if it wasn’t a legal requirement they’d not have put this in.

 

[pdk42]

How would this work whilst a) retaining Tesla warranty and b) not impacting insurance?

Many insurers point blank refuse to quote if there are modifications and non-disclosure would void anyway.

Not sure how SEXY buttons work but thought they may require some module connection to interface with Canbus.

A complete stalk replacement would be a fairly significant install. I would imagine an underwriter would be extremely wary of something which could be potentially dangerous without significant safety testing.

I really doubt it will be an issue. It’s little different to installing an after market speedo display and I wouldn’t even think of declaring that to an insurer - because it’s just a piece of accessory electronics. There’s no charge to anything that matters. It’s an accessory, not a modification.

And as to warranty - it’s possible that Tesla might play hardball, but there are precedents for this sort of thing. There’s no way they could deny warranty on, say, the drivetrain if all you’ve done is added something to the CANbus.

 

[Mark89052]

I just read it is only on the driver side. That is a real half baked stuff from Tesla. And correct me if I am wrong.

See the below from electrek online.
……the Owner’s Manual does specifically say driver door. And we’ve only seen the LED light on that side, not on the passenger side. So this blind spot indicator might only be on the driver’s side of the vehicle, not the passenger side, which seems odd. Driver side blind spots are more pronounced because it’s harder to crane your neck around in that direction, but if it’s cheap and simple enough to add the indicator to one side, why not the other side too?

European manual says it’s on both side

 

[pdk42]

I just read it is only on the driver side. That is a real half baked stuff from Tesla. And correct me if I am wrong.

See the below from electrek online.
……the Owner’s Manual does specifically say driver door. And we’ve only seen the LED light on that side, not on the passenger side. So this blind spot indicator might only be on the driver’s side of the vehicle, not the passenger side, which seems odd. Driver side blind spots are more pronounced because it’s harder to crane your neck around in that direction, but if it’s cheap and simple enough to add the indicator to one side, why not the other side too?

I’ve seen a video that shows it on both doors. Arguably, it’s more important on the passenger door.

 

[FastLaneJB]

I really doubt it will be an issue. It’s little different to installing an after market speedo display and I wouldn’t even think of declaring that to an insurer - because it’s just a piece of accessory electronics. There’s no charge to anything that matters. It’s an accessory, not a modification.

An accessory is something like a 12 volt tyre inflator that you plug in occasionally to inflate your tyres. A device that you need to wire in to the cars electronics to provide key driving functionality like gear selection and indicators is a mod. Up to you if you do or don’t tell your insurance but I honestly cannot see any insurance company calling this an accessory.

You sound like one of the people that would wire in a box to increase an engines power and claim it would still have full warranty and no need to tell insurance. The posts you’d see on forums is them always finding out they were wrong when they needed to claim on either.

 

[pdk42]

An accessory is something like a 12 volt tyre inflator that you plug in occasionally to inflate your tyres. A device that you need to wire in to the cars electronics to provide key driving functionality like gear selection and indicators is a mod. Up to you if you do or don’t tell your insurance but I honestly cannot see any insurance company calling this an accessory.

So, is an OBD device an accessory or a mod? Or maybe one of the many Android-based dash displays? Or how about the current SEXY buttons? My car has the TopFit display, which connects via a Y cable into the car’s main computer and I’ve had it with Tesla SC with zero mention or complaints about it (since the problem it was in for was the suspension).

 

[FastLaneJB]

If you are sure of your reasoning then there would be no harm calling an insurance company to ask them. Ultimately they are the ones that will make that call. If it’s an accessory they’ll let you know and that there’s nothing to worry about. However is it a case of you not calling them because your 100% sure you are right or just you don’t want to risk them telling you that your wrong to increase your premium?

 

[FastLaneJB]

So, is an OBD device an accessory or a mod? Or maybe one of the many Android-based dash displays? Or how about the current SEXY buttons? My car has the TopFit display, which connects via a Y cable into the car’s main computer and I’ve had it with Tesla SC with zero mention or complaints about it (since the problem it was in for was the suspension).

Tesla aren’t an insurance company are they? Why don’t you read this, from an insurance company. It’s a modification but in that instance it might not affect your premium.

How popular modifications affect your car insurance | Adrian Flux

I think installing your own stalks however will affect your premium or they might refuse in worse case to insure it at least initially until they know more about it.

 

[mcb345]

Late to the party here…. The one downfall to the Y in my opinion is the lack of ventilated seats. This is a huge win for hot climates and longer drives for the M3.

 

[FastLaneJB]

My snarky reply was because you said I sounded like someone who’d install a tuning box on an ICE car and not inform my insurance. I’d not do that for the obvious reason that increasing a car’s power is clearly something that could increase risk.

But adding simple accessories like SEXY buttons (and I see stalks as much the same) is not in the same category. Sure the insurers will try to screw your for anything, but I think it’s unreasonable for owners to need to inform insurers for stuff like this. What’s next? - informing them to install fluffy dice?

Yes to be fair, I shouldn’t have said the tuning box comment. Sorry about that.

Not saying I agree with how this all works for everything, somethings are pretty trivial. It is however the law in this country that you inform an insurance company of all modifications to a car.

I don’t think however adding stalks to a car that doesn’t have any is a non-trivial modification. That’s not a comment around how easy or hard it would be to install, more that it’s a mod that affects the selection of gears and indicators in the car. It’s got to be wired into the cars electronics / bus to work regardless of how they pull that off.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

I think if I was an insurance company and heard that an after market bolt on was going to be the used for indicating, I think I’d have an opinion on whether it might change the likelihood of an accident. The risk of false indication, or device failure etc. To me it’s less about the integration into the car, that’s a matter for warranty, and more that it changes how the driver drives. We may think the purpose is to make indicating more natural to previous experience, and in essence that’s why you’d do it, but there are then considerations on how well installed it is, could it fail, could it send an incorrect signal etc, as it’s not been through the same type approval as the car

 

[FastLaneJB]

I think if I was an insurance company and heard that an after market bolt on was going to be the used for indicating, I think I’d have an opinion on whether it might change the likelihood of an accident. The risk of false indication, or device failure etc. To me it’s less about the integration into the car, that’s a matter for warranty, and more that it changes how the driver drives. We may think the purpose is to make indicating more natural to previous experience, and in essence that’s why you’d do it, but there are then considerations on how well installed it is, could it fail, could it send an incorrect signal etc, as it’s not been through the same type approval as the car

Yes exactly that George. Hence while in theory it should make it easier for you to indicate than without, I think it’ll bump your premium up for the reasons you’ve mentioned.

And for most people, as they don’t own their cars it would also be breaching their contracts there to modify and also invalidate the warranty on someone else’s car.

Last point but anything that plugs into the electronics of the car is going to be super easy for Tesla to know it’s there or has been there even if you unplug it before taking it in. It’ll have logged that something abnormal is on the bus and uploaded that data to their mothership. Maybe they won’t action on it but I’d be very surprised if they won’t know. I can then just imagine they could easily try to wiggle out of any warranty claim for anything else that’s on that bus.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Yes exactly that George. Hence while in theory it should make it easier for you to indicate than without, I think it’ll bump your premium up for the reasons you’ve mentioned.

My point is more than to me it’s not inconsequential and therefore relevant. There are positives (historic method of indicating), but new risks are added. I imagine in their judgement the overall risk increases, but they may think it falls. I recall direct line at one point offered a discount if you had autopilot in the car even though that wasn’t without its challenges especially if misused

 

[Durzel]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned or discussed but the blind spot indicators on this car feel like a massive after thought. It’s just a tiny little cheap red LED inside the speaker covers. No doubt only because they had to add it but a little bit more effort might have been nice.

Yeah, that is really crap. I have a feeling that there might be a mini-refresh of the Highland within a year that will address that and other issues (e.g. front bumper and/or headlight cameras).

 

[Drew57]

Last point but anything that plugs into the electronics of the car is going to be super easy for Tesla to know it’s there or has been there even if you unplug it before taking it in. It’ll have logged that something abnormal is on the bus and uploaded that data to their mothership. Maybe they won’t action on it but I’d be very surprised if they won’t know. I can then just imagine they could easily try to wiggle out of any warranty claim for anything else that’s on that bus.

It's the reason why I will never add anything that connects to the CANBUS. Tesla are known for being generally unsympathetic towards customers & frequently look for reasons to avoid responsibility, especially as they hold all the cards in terms of detailed historical data.

 

[pdk42]

If the risks of installing something on the CANbus were as significant as some of you here are saying, companies like SEXY wouldn’t have a business model. You’re all being way too sensitive about this. Add-on indicator stalks take nothing away from the crappy buttons that Tesla will provide on the Highland and their operation is predicated on them sending THE SAME signals that the buttons do. On a scale of 1-10 in terms of driving risk, I’d put them at 1 and AP as about 6!

But I guess we all need to make our own decisions…

 

[FastLaneJB]

If the risks of installing something on the CANbus were as significant as some of you here are saying, companies like SEXY wouldn’t have a business model. You’re all being way too sensitive about this. Add-on indicator stalks take nothing away from the crappy buttons that Tesla will provide on the Highland and their operation is predicated on them sending THE SAME signals that the buttons do. On a scale of 1-10 in terms of driving risk, I’d put them at 1 and AP as about 6!

But I guess we all need to make our own decisions…

Well we don’t get to make the decision on the risk. The insurance company does when you call them

Sorry I couldn’t resist. Carry on everyone

 

[doats1]

If the risks of installing something on the CANbus were as significant as some of you here are saying, companies like SEXY wouldn’t have a business model. You’re all being way too sensitive about this. Add-on indicator stalks take nothing away from the crappy buttons that Tesla will provide on the Highland and their operation is predicated on them sending THE SAME signals that the buttons do. On a scale of 1-10 in terms of driving risk, I’d put them at 1 and AP as about 6!

But I guess we all need to make our own decisions…

I agree. I've installed an aftermarket powered tailgate, which relies on a CAN signal.

Since then I've had issues with charge port, my infotainment screen and my speakers. Tesla have not once tried to wriggle out of any warranty work.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

I agree. I've installed an aftermarket powered tailgate, which relies on a CAN signal.

Since then I've had issues with charge port, my infotainment screen and my speakers. Tesla have not once tried to wriggle out of any warranty work.

It’s not warranty that’s being talked about, it’s insurance

I think indicators are the nearest to being a primary control as you can get once you take into account steering and the go and stop pedals, it’s a material function to driving, I’d argue more so than gear select which isn’t touched when moving, and therefore the consequences of it malfunctioning are greater than anything other than steering and brakes, and the time you actually use indicators are during the busy times of driving, ie junctions, lane changes, roundabouts, so just when you have the greatest demand on your cognitive skills whilst driving.

But it doesn’t matter what you or I think, it’s for the insurance company to decide, unless you like the idea of being personally liable for any third party claim should the worst happen, all for the sake of asking the question.

I also find it somewhat amusing that “the thing I like about Tesla is you don’t have to pay extra for options like heated seats…” and yet many of the people who say that are advocating paying extra for indicator stalks. Apply my “what would you think if BMW, Audi or Mercedes did this?” test and many supporting Tesla on this would be at the front of the queue to criticise them.

Everything about the Highland seems to be a massive step forward, if the Performance comes with better seats and improved suspension even better, it’s just so frustrating to be so close to a peerless car to go and do what they’ve done, and I say that as both a Tesla owner an£ shareholder.

 

[pdk42]

It’s not warranty that’s being talked about, it’s insurance

I think indicators are the nearest to being a primary control as you can get once you take into account steering and the go and stop pedals, it’s a material function to driving, I’d argue more so than gear select which isn’t touched when moving, and therefore the consequences of it malfunctioning are greater than anything other than steering and brakes, and the time you actually use indicators are during the busy times of driving, ie junctions, lane changes, roundabouts, so just when you have the greatest demand on your cognitive skills whilst driving.

.

But indicators are in fact optional. If you crash into someone because they didn’t signal, or signalled incorrectly, then it’s your fault not theirs.