So… Highland is out…

[Jason71]

Yes I think it would be more of an issue on smaller, tighter roundabouts, say where the wheel is already turned up past 12oclock when you have to put the left hand indicator on.

The more I think about it the less I think it would be a major problem, but I admittedly I am trying to justify purchasing one, so could be trying to gloss over things in my head.

Agreed that the smaller the roundabout the worse. Very large ones you don't even need to move your hands on the wheel so it should be OK. It is also worse for the LHD Europeans since they turn left on a roundabout and exit right but still have the indicators on the left. You take your down hand off the wheel and re-position it sooner than you do your up hand so they will lose touch with the buttons more easily and sooner than we do.

More than happy to let you test it out for us to find out.

 

[Pagemakers]

But does a single press wipe or open up the wiper display on the screen? What about screen wash?

 

[1k-dummy]

The new steering wheel looks cluttered, I prefer my 2022 version which is just 1 scroll wheel each side. I like the implication that the function of the buttons can be changed via software.

If I'm on the "1 button marked for 1 function" camp I'd not be buying a Tesla. (Yes I know the stalk has buttons on them)

 

[randompixel]

But does a single press wipe or open up the wiper display on the screen? What about screen wash?

 

[Roger20]

First post on the forum but have enjoyed reading posts over the last month or so.

Bought a new M3 Highland a week after the UK site went live. Stealth Grey Long Range AWD with 19" wheels. Delivery quoted Jan/Feb but a few days after the order this changed to last 2 weeks in December.

I flipflopped about the stalk issue for some time. I've spent the last month looking for instances where the indicators in particular might cause a problem but in virtually all instances I have driven, the steering wheel will be mainly at 9 and 3 o'clock when using the button. The one roundabout where I thought it could cause difficulty, the buttons would be halfway between 9 and 12 anyway so pressing right then left should be OK. Yes there are going to be circumstance where the wheel will be at 180° and button pressing just isn't possible. I won't be indicating then but most of you will have come across similar situations where even using a stalk as well as steering is a step too far. I'm really hoping that muscle memory will just change to a different way of indicating.

I've ridden old British bike as well as modern bikes where the gear change is on opposite sides and you just adapt to what you are riding.

I really don't think parking, changing gears or the windscreen wipers will be an issue. Auto reverse or forward will apply in many instances. Swiping for reverse is really no different to moving your hand down to change gear, whether an automatic or manual. Just a question of adapting to the change.

On balance, like many have said I would probably prefer to still have stalks. Hopefully, even if I do adapt, it won't remain one of those annoying and unnecessary changes which tarnish ownership. A bit like Autopilot, Park Assist, lack of USS and wipers which don't work properly, this is a Tesla according to Musk - you either buy into it or buy something else.

I just don't see anything on the market which approaches the M3/Y, nor is there anything likely to arrive in my sort of time frame. I'm in my 70s now so time is running down if I want to embrace an EV, particularly with performance, and importantly for me, a superb sound system. The other factor is the pending change in April 2025 which will hit EVs over £40k. Paying £600 pa on top of expensive insurance might have been a step too far.

Ideally I might have preferred to wait but it's the best car for me at this point in time and hopefully all the positives will outweigh any minor irritations.

If the market doesn't like this car because it's stalkless, Musk could reintroduce them. But that might be long term or even not at all. But if it affects his bottom line he could just respond by slashing prices even more and we all know that we are at risk of that anyway when buying a Tesla. He has the margins and can afford to do it.

 

[FastLaneJB]

The issue is with the stalk latching into position and mechanically canceling after finishing the turn. This can lead to situations where the stalk position and the actual turn signal lights are in inconsistent states if you are also using automation for the turn signals. The Tesla turn signal controls (stalk or touch buttons) are just momentary signal sources, so automation can always change the blinkers and not have the controls in a contradictory state. Yes, it's annoying and a worse user experience, but it is necessary if you are committed to automation above all else like Elon is.

I am just speaking here about Model 3/Y and the newer S/X. I have no experience with the older S/X with the Mercedes stalks.

OK yes I’d not considered that and you are right. Of course they could move them with a motor but that’s never going to be a thing when the goal is to remove and simplify.

 

[LiamPope]

My M3 loaner was infuriating at roundabouts. There are many threads on this going back years plus this video:

I mean, is this not nuts? What it means is that, not only do you need to consult the Tesla manual to figure out what in the name of Bartholomew H. Tapdancing Christmas you are supposed to be pushing or pulling or prodding to perform some unbelievably simple task that has been self-evident in every other vehicle for almost a century, you then have to witness it fail to work or work consistently the way the Tesla manual outlines because some undisclosed cost cutting drive by the Chief Fruitcake demanded common sense be hurled out the window as well.

The rotating buttons make it worse and they're going to drive people crazy.

Wow that is nuts! Can't get mine to do that at all, thank god.

 

[Leytonstone]

I've ridden old British bike as well as modern bikes where the gear change is on opposite sides and you just adapt to what you are riding.

Although here the gearchange doesn't spin from your right foot to your left at every junction, and thus you don't need half a second or more to rewire your understanding of its current orientation to work out in advance whether you need your heel or toe to go up or down through the box

 

[LiamPope]

Anyone who wants to try out what it will be like, just try to press one of the steering wheel buttons in your existing Tesla, as if to do a voice command or whatever the other one does, while negotiating some typical urban small/medium roundabouts. You'll see straight away that you just don't - it's annoying and you have to take your eyes off the road while trying to manoeuvre this way and that, avoid hitting other cars, maybe read a sign. Instead you give up until you're on a straight piece of road and the wheel, and the button you're trying to press, has stopped moving around and your hand is fixed on the wheel! And so it will be with indicators on Highland. And the scroll wheels are a nice tactile control you can feel for - imagine if they were a featureless flat panel.

 

[WannabeOwner]

The only time I can think of that the wheel may be more than a quarter turn away from straight (buttons a the top or bottom) would be quite a small roundabout

I tried this on a regular sized roundabout, not a mini one (and not a monster over a dual carirageway). But it was big enough to accomodate 2 lanes of traffic

What I found was (using UK orientation) approaching roundabout to turn right (i.e. 3rd exit) I actually had to steer left, a bit, to get onto the roundabout. And that meant that once I started to steer right I had to use quite a bit for the circumference of the roundabout. Enough that I was past 180 degrees at the point when I wanted to change indicator from Right (turning right) to Left (leaving the roundabout).

I have been following the discussion, but it was only when trying that roundabout that I realised that even a "normal" roundabout is going to need 180 degrees. And, for me, I would shuffle the wheel through my hands for that, not hold position - instead of quarter-to-three that would be half-past-midnight!

Swiping for reverse is really no different to moving your hand down to change gear, whether an automatic or manual.

Tesla will allow engaging reverse up to about 5 MPG forwards (and vice versa). I find it very convenient, in a multipoint turn manoeuvre, to just throw the Forward/Reverse stalk, dab the accelerator for "reverse thrust" to slow the current motion, then dab again for opposite direction, then throw forward/reverse stalk again and repeat. Its a lot quicker and slicker than brake-to-stop, press clutch!, change gear.

I am doubtful that I will be able to do that with "swipe screen" instead of "throw stalk"

 

[_MJF_]

Tesla will allow engaging reverse up to about 5 MPG forwards (and vice versa).

If it's doing 5 MPG I'd raise a service request.

 

[FastLaneJB]

If it's doing 5 MPG I'd raise a service request.

Diesel generator in the boot?

 

[smogne41]

Diesel generator in the boot?

Or Turbojet?

 

[Vitoman]

First post on the forum but have enjoyed reading posts over the last month or so.

Bought a new M3 Highland a week after the UK site went live. Stealth Grey Long Range AWD with 19" wheels. Delivery quoted Jan/Feb but a few days after the order this changed to last 2 weeks in December.

I flipflopped about the stalk issue for some time. I've spent the last month looking for instances where the indicators in particular might cause a problem but in virtually all instances I have driven, the steering wheel will be mainly at 9 and 3 o'clock when using the button. The one roundabout where I thought it could cause difficulty, the buttons would be halfway between 9 and 12 anyway so pressing right then left should be OK. Yes there are going to be circumstance where the wheel will be at 180° and button pressing just isn't possible. I won't be indicating then but most of you will have come across similar situations where even using a stalk as well as steering is a step too far. I'm really hoping that muscle memory will just change to a different way of indicating.

First post for me too
Really interesting post for me as it reflects my own position almost exactly. Have been wanting to move to an EV for ages and the M3 is the only one that makes sense for my requirements. So I've been waiting for the refresh before I can take a test drive. I'm fully aware of the issues with the lack of stalks and agree it's a stupid idea to remove them. But I've been practising with steering wheel buttons on my current ICE car - simulating indicators - and most of the time have no issues. There are a very few exceptions where it's a pain but I'm confident I can adjust for those.
I might be wrong and only time will tell but I'm looking forward to making the switch.

 

[Roger20]

I'm trying to rationalise this change to using buttons for indication.

I've not considered every possibility yet but as far as I can see it is only going to be roundabouts where safety is an issue. because you can't indicate in a way you might like to. Even then it will only be going past the 10:30 to 11:00 o'clock position. The great majority of the time buttons will be fine once it hopefully becomes fairly instinctive and I no longer have to look down at the wheel.

In those situations, which are likely to be relatively rare, I am going to be more conscious of not making any sudden moves, positioning the car properly and changing direction in relation to other vehicles nearby. Hopefully that will make me more aware than I might have been previously. But if I'm not able to indicate, I'm pretty sure I won't be the only one!

 

[Rustybkts]

I have just ordered the new Model 3 to replace my 3 1/2 year old SR+ which has proved to be and is the best car I have ever owned by a long chalk.
That includes a few BMW's and other "quality" motors.
My only issue is with the RWD's sound system as I upgraded the SR+ with the premium Hanssshow that had a sub woofer along with its amp, a digital signal processor and two upgraded rear parcel shelf speakers that improved listening experience massively.

No Highland tests seem to mention this area of the car and £10,000 is a big jump for better sound, especially as I have added paint, tow bar, white seats and 19" wheels. The extra power is not required as the RWD has more than enough to get in to trouble.

Indicator buttons on the steering wheel is a minor issue and no worse IMHO than an indicator lever on the "wrong" side as many Japanese cars used to have.

For those that will need stalks, I bet one of the grey suppliers will soon have a can bus option for them.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

In those situations, which are likely to be relatively rare, I am going to be more conscious of not making any sudden moves, positioning the car properly and changing direction in relation to other vehicles nearby. Hopefully that will make me more aware than I might have been previously. But if I'm not able to indicate, I'm pretty sure I won't be the only one!

Or.. at the very moment you should be more conscious of not making any sudden moves, positioning the car properly etc, you’re distracted while you work out where the correct indicator button is

And the first time you get it accidentally wrong and somebody pulls out on you because you’ve indicated incorrectly you’ll curse the system

I predict people just won’t bother indicating rather than trying to use them when it’s marginally tricky and that is not helping anyone.

And please, for everyone else, no jokes about BMW drivers, its a little sad if that’s the best you can come up with

 

[Roger20]

Or.. at the very moment you should be more conscious of not making any sudden moves, positioning the car properly etc, you’re distracted while you work out where the correct indicator button is

It will probably be fairly clear that unless it's a very large, and therefore shallow radius roundabout, indicating exit isn't going to be possible. Therefore awareness and positioning is a more likely situation than distraction.

It would be interesting to hear the experiences of others who watch what is actually happening on roundabouts and whether good practice is always/occasionally/never followed.

Yes - buttons are not a very good solution to a problem that never existed and one each side would have been better. But having ordered the car this is what I will have to live with. It's easy to be critical but for the foreseeable future you either buy the car as it is, warts and all or perhaps compromise by buying something else which lacks the M3 positives.

Does it come back to the maxim 'idealism is increased in direct proportion to the distance from the problem'. Nothing is perfect

There are always going to be accidents or incidents on roundabouts. Hopefully M3+ owners aren't going to make this worse.

 

[MrT3]

I've not considered every possibility yet but as far as I can see it is only going to be roundabouts where safety is an issue.

and staggered junctions.

 

[Roger20]

and staggered junctions.

Yes - can envisage that scenario. First indication can be cancelled or will auto cancel but the opposite indication will depend on how much straight road there is to do the opposite indication before needing to start the turn.