Roughly 1/2 the EVs in the US reside in California. We have about 12% of the population.
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Roughly 1/2 the EVs in the US reside in California. We have about 12% of the population.
$25k is not $20k. $25k is about where you can get a Bolt in California if you shop wisely.
bnsfengineer
Active Member
How about the "Bolt" is a clown car in comparison to M3???bolt has several positive aspects over the model 3.
Lower maintenance costs.
Android Auto.
Cheaper than model 3.
I'm going to guess more headroom too but I could be wrong.
It can provide your phone with a wifi connection.
You can buy one now!
Easier to get to the dealer for any issues.
Better camera system for parking. (I think?)
Better rear visibility because of the cool mirror that is also a screen on the premier.
The Software UI was kinda crappy however there are physical buttons for many things and a traditional speedometer etc in addition to the screen so that's a plus for me since I'm not a fan of using a touchscreen while driving.
Many people will still get a 10k tax credit on the bolt long after it's gone for the M3.
Bolt has a bigger battery and range, than a cost comparable model 3.
Option to Lease.
Maybe easier to trade in your car?
Not sure how the sound systems compare?
But I mean I decided to wait it out for the M3but I was going to buy a bolt at one point if the tax credit went away.
Go test drive one. The first thing you'll notice is the easy ingress. Clown Cars are cars that are hard to fit into.
I’m only trying to argue $37.5k MSRP, not including DC fast charge, is too high.
The deals that one can get, serve to reinforce this argument.
bnsfengineer
Active Member
Touche! Have to admit I have not but they look like a clown car! (too small) M3 has look almost cross between Boxster and Acura. You have to admit there is no comparison as to the aesthetics of each car!
The Model 3 was designed with styling and performance being the top priorities.
The Bolt? Utility, usefulness, affordability (and of course range) seem to have been the priorities for GM. I'm fine owning a "clown car" as long as it doesn't look like a fugly Prius or Gen 1 Leaf, or plain weird like an i3. The Bolt blends in, which I'm perfectly fine with.
Have you ever seen a Bolt without DC fast charging? We saw almost 100 while shopping for ours. And not one did not have fast charging. Yes it may be an option. But every car that I have ever see on heard of has it.
Looks are very deceiving in this case. I'm 6'1" 275lb and have no trouble sitting in a Bolt F or R and it has great visibility.
Personally, my taste in Fashion leans more towards, which is a decade old design:
But you would not enjoy driving it daily on city streets.
I have to lean the seat back to clear my helmet, and it has tragic visibility and poor ingress and egress, and attracts unwanted attention.
Now there will be self-driving "clown cars" next year!
Chevy Cruise AV, GM's autonomous electric Bolt EV, to go into production in 2019
Chevy Cruise AV, GM's autonomous electric Bolt EV, to go into production in 2019
bnsfengineer
Active Member
Did you watch the youtube video where the guy was 6'7" and had no issues with M3? He was wearing a hat not a Helmet though
mtndrew1
Active Member
The Bolt is like the world’s best gen 1 EV. It drives fine with excellent suspension tuning, a solid rattle-free chassis, and stout acceleration. It also has the best regen implementation I’ve ever experienced.
Unfortunately the Bolt also has a Playskool interior, truly bizarre seats, a lack of features for the money, and casts a shadow similar to a Yaris. It in no way feels like a $44k car. As said above, the major discounts, subvented leases, Costco pricing, employee pricing, etc all serve to reinforce this.
Even with all the discounting and futzing around GM only moved 25,000 of them in 2017. BFD. At its current price it’s just not moving the needle.
Unfortunately the Bolt also has a Playskool interior, truly bizarre seats, a lack of features for the money, and casts a shadow similar to a Yaris. It in no way feels like a $44k car. As said above, the major discounts, subvented leases, Costco pricing, employee pricing, etc all serve to reinforce this.
Even with all the discounting and futzing around GM only moved 25,000 of them in 2017. BFD. At its current price it’s just not moving the needle.
Did you watch the youtube video where the guy was 6'7" and had no issues with M3? He was wearing a hat not a Helmet though
I have not had the opportunity to sit in a Model 3 yet, so I can't say. Most cars I've tracked have issues with helmet clearance for me. I like to sit as upright as possible. Personal preference.
Example:
Did you watch the youtube video where the guy was 6'7" and had no issues with M3? He was wearing a hat not a Helmet though
That guy wouldn't have been very comfortable back there if he were to go anywhere further than 10 miles away.
Q4, the Bolt sold 8,995 units in the USA.
Q4, the Bolt/Volt sold 14k, the Model S/X/3 sold 15k.
mtndrew1
Active Member
Accurate, but I would argue that 15k units in the crowd the Model S and X play in (A7, 6-series, E/S class, etc) is a dramatically higher percentage of its market than 14k of small relatively inexpensive PHEV and BEVs.
Toyota outsold GM’s PHEV effort with the lame Prime; Tesla has some of the best selling vehicles in their segments with a small leasing percentage, few discounts and no marketing budget.
As far as where the puck is headed, 25k heavily discounted Bolt sales made up of half leasing for the debut year of what was supposed to be a game-changing product does not seem to indicate big things for the car. It’s fine, I just expected 50k+ sold at full MSRP if the product had hit where the market demand was. It feels like distressed merchandise to some degree right now.
As far as I can tell it seems that way way more people want a $44k electric 328i equivalent than a $44k Honda Fit equivalent. That said, it’s clear big EV efforts are forthcoming from GM. The Bolt ain’t it though.
McHoffa
CyberOwners
Ummm, you must have missed the part where I explained that I drove a Bolt, and later rode 75 miles in a Bolt to go test drive the Model 3.
I've also driven $20k cars. In fact, I owned one for six years, a Honda Fit, which is pretty much the exact same car as a Bolt only uses gasoline. Yeah, it's not as quick, but otherwise pretty much the same car (more comfortable though).
I'll give you the others, but built for affordability? The base price is higher than a BMW 3 series, for basically an electric Honda Fit.
So we should essentially be saying $38.3k base price
No, $25k is NOT where you can get the Bolt. $35k is, and then IF you qualify for the tax credits, it's $25k. You simply can't advertise the price with discounts because those discounts won't apply to all buyers.
If you want to say it's a $25k car, then also call the upcoming base Model 3 a $25k car (in California).
Remember, the tax credit will begin going away for both GM and Tesla this year. The Model 3 will survive easily without the tax credit. The Bolt will probably not, because without it, you've got a $35k Tesla and a $35k Chevy Bolt.
McHoffa
CyberOwners
and Nissan sold nearly 12k of the severely outdated, low range, heavily discounted 2017 Leaf... people really want EVs, but as more are available, especially once the base Model 3 can be ordered without a year+ wait, a Bolt or similar EV cannot cost $40k... it will have to be $20k without any tax credits.
mtndrew1
Active Member
I think the Bolt could successfully sell in reasonably high numbers at $29,995 before tax credits. It’s a totally decent car and with an interior upgrade could be an interesting alternative to something like a Focus ST or GTI for many buyers. It’s just bonkers overpriced.
The Model 3 is going after the 3-Series and A4 customers. Totally different market. I expect its handling and feature set to be contrasted against those cars when the dust settles, not the Bolt.
The Bolt will end up in the bargain bin with the Leaf, Ioniq, and i3 (real transaction prices).
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