So Who Will Be Watching this All-Electric Cadillac Lyriq REVEAL 8/6/20 7pm EDT!?!?

[EVSteve]

The reason Caddy can put all that leather inside the car is because they are not spending it someplace else, like battery innovation, or electric motor efficiency. Of course, they take a hit in corporate profits, but, hey, what's money for, if not to line the president's pockets?

I wish Tesla wouldn't focus so much on "battery innovation and motor efficiency". So far I'm on door-handle (gen 3 mind you) #5 being replaced. Ranger is coming tomorrow to replace the left rear AGAIN. Right front headlight LED strip burned out, Main battery coupling failed 4 months or so into ownership, brakes squeak with no permanent fix, front end suspension rattle, and range has never matched the display which is why the car stays on percentage. Memory seats? Useless as slowly but surely it loses its position and winds up trying to mush me against the steering wheel. Cold weather package has never managed to keep the wipers clear no matter how many times I reactivate them. Then there's the intermittent airbag light, rattle behind the dash when supercharging in hot weather, and perhaps my paranoia from all these issues is getting to me but I think the AC is failing. Software updates I didn't ask for nor do I want have been forced onto my car crippling my MCU unless I pay for the upgrade which will remove some functionality in the process but at least that will get rid of the yellow border from the poor job manufacturing the MCU screen right?

Old software I had complete control over the HVAC. I could put the airflow where I wanted while the car handled temperature and fan speed for the temperature I requested. Now? As soon as I change anything the car goes to manual. I now have to quickly bump the temperature up or down because it's no longer working towards a cabin temperature once the HVAC is in manual. No, as soon as you press anything now the temperature will be the output temperature of the vents. Oh other fun fact, if you preheat or precool with the app as soon as you hit the brake pedal the car will flip back to whatever the temperature was when I exited completely ignoring the command I gave it from the app. Why? All last winter thousands of owners in the northern US were greeted with zero regenerative braking even if they preheated with the app because someone missed that line of code in the last software update. The only fix was to pretend I was headed to a supercharger all the time so it would preheat in preparation and maintain proper battery temperature while driving. If I navigated elsewhere my regen limit bars would start to show up even though I was actively driving on the highway. Time to departure option? Useless no effect. 42,000 miles on the S so far in 2.5 years and degradation stands at roughly 5% if my calculations are correct. I guess I've been fortunate my 12v hasn't failed, and I haven't needed a drive unit yet.

By contrast I didn't have a single issue with my 2013 Volt up until 92,000 miles when a deer totaled it and no perceivable battery degradation. My girlfriend has had zero issues so far with her 2017 Volt. So I spent $100k+ for a Model-S which has proven to be a maintenance headache and has lost functionality via mandatory software updates vs 2 Chevrolet Volts which have both had zero problems and cost less for BOTH. Plus when a Volt says you have 40 miles left, you have 40 miles left. When my S says 300 I maybe have 250 of real world range. I won't even bother going into detail about BMS miscalculations on Teslas leaving people stranded when the car shut down showing sometimes 15% or higher SOC left. If I can't trust the estimate then I can't use the full range of the battery.

I watched the reveal and can't wait for the Cadillac and other offerings from GM. (New Bolt, Hummer EV, and so on. Even if I don't buy one at least perhaps the coming competition will kick Tesla in the rear so they focus on more than just theoretical range numbers and better 0-60 times. I'm sick of calling service and driving a car with more problems than any other vehicle I've ever owned. One look through the forums at all the nightmare situations tells a broken record story. Quality issues at delivery, service refusing clear as day warranty claims, superchargers down for weeks or in the case of the one near my home MONTHS, and Apple like tactics of releasing software without option to refuse knowing full well it will bog down the MCU tells me there are a lot of current owners who own not because they want to keep buying Teslas but because currently here are the options. A $35k Model-3 with the supercharging network or a overpriced legacy brand with limited charging for twice the cost in many cases. This is becoming the Apple of electric cars. Apple had the first mass produced innovative smart phone and as the only real player they could charge whatever, behave however and dominate the smartphone market. Once android became as capable as Apple for less with more options Apple started losing marketshare. Most will disagree with me because $1,500/s stock price but I think unless Tesla starts focusing on the details when their celebrity degrades, as it already has been, they're going to have to actually compete.

Was GM's presentation tacky and clearly rehearsed? Yes. Is the front of the Lyric ugly? In my opinion it could use some work but we all know the production version won't be nearly as elaborate when the GM bean counters have at it. I can only imagine the warranty cost if the fancy light show up front breaks. Do I believe that when GM says 300 miles the car will on average achieve 300 miles? Absolutely. Not to mention GM is offering 19kW at home charging? Tesla used to offer 20kW then dropped to 17.5, now we're stuck at what 11.5kW? WHY? I have a Gen1 HPWC with I paid extra to have breakers at the maximum output. Buying a new S means I just wasted that expenditure and locked myself into needing now paid superchargers to get the job done. Superchargers which, as I previously mentioned, sometimes go offline for months. Heads up display sounds amazing with augmented reality. Wasn't that something Model-3 owners were hoping for when they discovered Tesla was just going to have one floating screen? I know I requested a refund for my M3 deposit once I saw the dash only had one screen. How many M3 owners have had their screens go blank while driving? How many times have the screens on my S rebooted at random? Too many.

I've ranted enough. Take off the Tesla glasses. The party is over kids. Unless Tesla takes a serious look at their quality control and poor design of parts with huge failure rates on basic things like doorhandles, paint, lights, fitment, the timebomb MCU eMMC chips, suspension suppliers, structural failures (rusty seats and split control arms) they're going to get run over by the guys with big pockets who took notice and have just about caught up.

 

[BigNick]

OK, I took the bait.
Up to now I thought I had an open mind.
Beauty is in the eye . . . and all that.
Meh (side view) to Hmmmm? (interior) to Blech! (OOOF! that front end) on the styling.
ICKY, clunky, contrived “question & answer” event format.
I had to double check that I wasn’t watching an SNL parody.
Design dome???
I am sad that GM is so out of touch, (Coming from 3rd generation of exclusively GM driving family) and so far behind the curve. I see only marketing and vaporware when I’m Iooking for engineering passion.
I am happy that Tesla had the foresight to lead.
Kind regards

Remember, GM had the lead on EVs in the 90s with the EV1, and they p***ed it all away.
I do like the instrument panel they have on the website though. But no idea if that will make it into production.

 

[outdoors]

Do I believe that when GM says 300 miles the car will on average achieve 300 miles? Absolutely. Not to mention GM is offering 19kW at home charging?

So what do you expect the EPA range will be? Every EV has to go through the same test. If you think the Lyriq will do 300 in the winter/rain. Plus let you go 70-75. The number would have to be much higher. So is GM going to change the EPA calculation, or up what the EPA range is. Has to be one or the other. Also note these are the RWD stats being quoted. On the call after it was said range will be lower for AWD.

In regards the the 19kW. I have fast charging as well at home. Can't say I have ever needed it at night. I would suspect this is a headline grab as it is not needed during the day for many. I also suspect the car will charge just fine in the 8-10 hours it sits nightly. This is true for just about every EV.


Electreck's take sums up mine pretty much.
Cadillac reveals Lyriq electric crossover with 19-kW home charging option, due late 2022 - Electrek

"The Lyriq looks beautiful. The interior is dramatic. And we’re optimistic that Cadillac will produce a true flagship EV for GM’s luxury brand.
However, what we’re seeing today is 80% production intent – and none of the specs are locked down. Price is a big question. A lot could happen between now and late 2022 when the Lyriq arrives. (The pace to production, with China coming first, seems quite leisurely.

While the fast 19-kW charging could be a good thing for some customers, we also see it as unnecessary for overnight home charging – especially considering the need for 100-amp service. Moreover, it reflects the mentality of drivers not familiar with the real needs of daily EV driving. And it shows how Cadillac might be overemphasizing clever tricks (like fancy headlight sequences) rather than delivering a great long-range EV at a compelling price as soon as possible."

 

[MXLRplus]

The performance versions of all cars takes a hit on MPG/eMPG by simple physics. All performance cars require more traction. Serious performance cars require more downforce.

19 kW charging will be silly if it doesn't allow 277/480 charging. That is the key. If an EV can handle US commercial power, then high performance L2 locations can spring up cheaply and easily. Stop somewhere for 30 minutes, and get a mile a minute worth of juice.

Any modern commercial structure has 277/480 available for lighting and AC. To put in a 19 kW EVSE, it only requires 10 AWG wire and 30 amp 3p breaker. Setting up 4 stalls per business is affordable.

Tesla seems to be retreating from this fact of American buildings today. Their latest EVSE doesn't support 277 and none of the US equipment supports 3ph EXCEPT the SC sites.

The biggest paradigm shift we have to conquer is the whole idea of refueling in populated areas. All populated areas have electricity. We need to be charging at short duration destinations such as work, school, and shopping. It will be cheaper as a society to refuel EVs than ICE vehicles simply due to capital and operational costs, but only if we switch over to EVs. With EVs at 1% of traffic, it can't work. Not even Superchargers can work indefinitely at low adoption rates.

 

[CyberShy]

I watched it at 1.5x afterwards. I missed them say the battery capacity, but another site quoted 100kwh.

My price guess is $89,995. There is no US federal tax credit so it’s in model X territory.
Someone said what they showed was a “concept” and that the production will be 80% the same, but I may have missed that part.

the 19kw L2 charging may only be on China or Europe. Three phase charging at 240V is 7.6kw per phase. The USA models may not be 19kw, but only 11-12kw.

I also read elsewhere that it launches in China in late 2022, and the US a year later.

Tesla has nothing to fear. The competition is always 2 years away. Has been for 8 years.

 

[MXLRplus]

I'm wagering the EV Hummer will be released first, and it will have:

Cross traffic alert, front and rear. (since 2015)
Hand's free cruise control. (Since 2018)
HUD. (Since the 1980's)
360 vision. (Since 2015)
Apple CarPlay and Android Auto. (Since 2015)
Rear Entertainment. (Since 1998)
Coat hooks. (Since the 1920's)
AM radio. (Since the 1950's)
Leather seating. (Since the 1920's)
USB SS and C outlets, several of them. (Since 2018)
120vac power. (Since 2001).

And so will the Cadillac.
It will be interesting to see if the Caddy or Hummer has All Wheel Steering like the old Denali and the CT6.

 

[ggr]

Only one cupholder!?

 

[mtndrew1]

I'm wagering the EV Hummer will be released first, and it will have:

Cross traffic alert, front and rear. (since 2015)
Hand's free cruise control. (Since 2018)
HUD. (Since the 1980's)
360 vision. (Since 2015)
Apple CarPlay and Android Auto. (Since 2015)
Rear Entertainment. (Since 1998)
Coat hooks. (Since the 1920's)
AM radio. (Since the 1950's)
Leather seating. (Since the 1920's)
USB SS and C outlets, several of them. (Since 2018)
120vac power. (Since 2001).

And so will the Cadillac.
It will be interesting to see if the Caddy or Hummer has All Wheel Steering like the old Denali and the CT6.

The Audi and Jag have most of this stuff and they can’t give those cars away (see: $30,000 discounts on the jag and the recent $9,000 haircut on the Audi). GM’s lame CT6 that debuted supercruise was so successful that it’s been...discontinued. Here’s a brand new three-year-old one lying around if you’d like an example of how desirable that car is (plenty of 2018s and 2019s to choose from if you don’t like the color)
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/696176263/overview/
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/696176263/overview/

Hummers and four wheel steering were in such high demand that GM went bankrupt.

Sometimes ticking off boxes on a feature sheet isn’t what sells cars. If Cadillac brings this thing out in two years with 300 miles of range (from a 100 kWh battery!) and 150 kW fast charging saddled with its embarrassing brand it’s dead in the water. It won’t approach the ELR disaster but it sure won’t get anyone out of an Audi.

 

[MXLRplus]

Only one cupholder!?

Remember that a Model X, the most expensive model of Tesla sold today, has no visible cupholders at all. When you unhide them, two are nearly impossible to use, two are where you rest your elbow and will eject their occupant during braking and cornering, and the two in the rear must be explained to your guests.

 

[MXLRplus]

The Audi and Jag have most of this stuff and they can’t give those cars away (see: $30,000 discounts on the jag and the recent $9,000 haircut on the Audi). GM’s lame CT6 that debuted supercruise was so successful that it’s been...discontinued. Here’s a brand new three-year-old one lying around if you’d like an example of how desirable that car is (plenty of 2018s and 2019s to choose from if you don’t like the color)
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/696176263/overview/

Hummers and four wheel steering were in such high demand that GM went bankrupt.

Sometimes ticking off boxes on a feature sheet isn’t what sells cars. If Cadillac brings this thing out in two years with 300 miles of range (from a 100 kWh battery!) and 150 kW fast charging saddled with its embarrassing brand it’s dead in the water. It won’t approach the ELR disaster but it sure won’t get anyone out of an Audi.

Honda Civics are selling well and have many of those features.

Yes, the CT6 was an epic failure in the US market but did well in China.

Super Cruise will probably next be seen in the Chevrolet Bolt or Bolt successor as a 2021 model.

Is that "Cars Dot Com" listing even marked down? That's a 2L 2WD stripper w/o SC or amentities. That's pretty close to MSRP in '17.

You are absolutely right that features do not sell EVs in the US as of 2020. But they probably will someday. Or we will all go to no-AC rollup windows manual brakes manual steering soon.

 

[mtndrew1]

Honda Civics are selling well and have many of those features.

Yes, the CT6 was an epic failure in the US market but did well in China.

Super Cruise will probably next be seen in the Chevrolet Bolt or Bolt successor as a 2021 model.

Is that "Cars Dot Com" listing even marked down? That's a 2L 2WD stripper w/o SC or amentities. That's pretty close to MSRP in '17.

You are absolutely right that features do not sell EVs in the US as of 2020. But they probably will someday. Or we will all go to no-AC rollup windows manual brakes manual steering soon.

Honda Civics sell well because they’re excellent cars, not because they tick off feature boxes. Honda hasn’t had to deprecate the brand after decades of clunkers (Vega>Cavalier>Cobalt>Cruze for example, all roughly the same class and all discontinued). What the Civic provides for the price delights customers and they come back for more. That’s what defines a successful product line.

A car’s core competency is what sells it. In the EV space this means how far you can push a car on one kWh of energy and how much it costs to store that kWh on board the car. The rest can be tweaked as necessary to accommodate customer demands but if you don’t get that core right it’s dead in the water.

The Lyriq isn’t there for 2020, let alone 2023. Maybe they’re sandbagging on the specs. Pretty car though.

 

[CyberShy]

The Lyriq isn’t there for 2020, let alone 2023. Maybe they’re sandbagging on the specs. Pretty car though.

Not quite sure what you mean by “not there”.

Or sandbagging.

Or the word “though”.

 

[mtndrew1]

Not quite sure what you mean by “not there”.

Or sandbagging.

Or the word “though”.

1) Not competitive in the 2020 EV market, let alone 2022.

2) Saying the range is 300 miles and charging is 150 kW when it’ll really be 350 miles and 250 kW. They did a bit of this with the Bolt (200 miles at reveal, 240 at launch).

3) ? The specs are lame, the launch date is an eternity away, but the 80% done concept car they showed last night is pretty.

 

[Brando]

Wow what a letdown.

Late 2022 launch with 150 kW fast charging, 300 miles out of a 100 kWh pack, and saddled with the moribund Cadillac brand.

What the hell has GM been doing since 2016?!

What has GM been doing since introduction of Saturn EV1 in 1996. Then crushing them in 2002/3?
see: Who Killed the Electric Car?

 

[ohmman]

After looking at this vehicle for a while, I somehow magically think the Cybertruck isn't so bad looking after all.

 

[CyberShy]

The more intriguing news since this announcement is the concept that GM may spin off their EV division as a whole so it can develop cars and Succeed or fail on its own.

Free from the burdens of gas vs. EV infighting and competition, I would see such a thing as only a positive. I would like to see what EM (Electric Motors) brings to market.

 

[tonybelding]

The reason Caddy can put all that leather inside the car is because they are not spending it someplace else...

Tesla's modern, synthetic, "vegan leather" is reputed to cost more than real leather.

If you want to look at where Cadillac (and by extention GM) spend a lot of money, I would point toward their advertising budget, and toward the painfully inefficient distribution system via franchised dealerships.

 

[FlatSix911]

The president of GM seems to be sweating like crazy. Reminds me of Nixon vs Kennedy debate in 1960.

That was so painful to watch... a bunch of out-of-touch white guys and gals trying to justify their existence before retirement. Game over Cady!

 

[ohmman]

Tesla's modern, synthetic, "vegan leather" is reputed to cost more than real leather.

I'm not sure if that's the case, but my understanding is that Tesla uses Ultrafabrics Ultraleather, which retails for around $50-75 per yard at a width of 54". Leather does seem to be more expensive than that, if so, but that's based only on a cursory Internet search.

 

[MichaelP90DL]

That was so painful to watch... a bunch of out-of-touch white guys and gals trying to justify their existence before retirement. Game over Cady!

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Ya know, I was thinking more about that reveal. What I sensed -- and this is just subjective and based on body language, voice and that sweat -- is that they don't believe what they're saying. It seemed like defiance in the face of certain doom. What do you think?