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Yup! 2 PW’s and a low background draw means that this time of year, save for the odd car charge etc. I can live on the top 25% of the PW’s dropping to the top 60% in winter powering them from cheap rate.
Today was odd. Warm but mostly not that sunny. Enough to fill up the PW’s and heat water. Then in the afternoon we hit 10.6 at one point and I topped up both cars without drawing from the PW’s.
I have an invite to switch to intelligent octopus saving me £100 on car charging. I don’t even spend that much! ;)
 
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I've heard from my supplier:

@PITA My supplier has confirmed that Givenergy batteries can be used in conjunction with Tesla PWs to increase capacity cheaply with both grid and/or solar charging priorities. I've been given a price of £5,018 installed for a 8.2kWh unit, the 9.2kWh units are unavailable at the moment. This price excludes VAT, but legally avoiding paying VAT seems possible.

Next by DNO, SSEN has approved my max potential 5.1kW free donation to the grid, although in practice I intend to give them nothing.:p

My 2 PWs will be G100 compliant, and if I wanted to join the Tesla Energy Plan, I'd need to gain approval from SSEN with a G99 application. Currently, my PWs are configured from zero export.

It is time to do more sums.
 
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I've heard from my supplier:

@PITA My supplier has confirmed that Givenergy batteries can be used in conjunction with Tesla PWs to increase capacity cheaply with both grid and/or solar charging priorities. I've been given a price of £5,018 installed for a 8.2kWh unit, the 9.2kWh units are unavailable at the moment. This price excludes VAT, but legally avoiding paying VAT seems possible.

Next by DNO, SSEN has approved my max potential 5.1kW free donation to the grid, although in practice I intend to give them nothing.:p

My 2 PWs will be G100 compliant, and if I wanted to join the Tesla Energy Plan, I'd need to gain approval from SSEN with a G99 application. Currently, my PWs are configured from zero export.

It is time to do more sums.
For that price, wouldn't it be better to just get another Powerwall?
 
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Yup! 2 PW’s and a low background draw means that this time of year, save for the odd car charge etc. I can live on the top 25% of the PW’s dropping to the top 60% in winter powering them from cheap rate.
Today was odd. Warm but mostly not that sunny. Enough to fill up the PW’s and heat water. Then in the afternoon we hit 10.6 at one point and I topped up both cars without drawing from the PW’s.
I have an invite to switch to intelligent octopus saving me £100 on car charging. I don’t even spend that much! ;)
That's great, but what is your annual oil bill (incl servicing? Our PW is at 96% now and we have generated 27kWh, and the fudge brownies are being cooked, they smell delicious.
 
I've frantically search the APP but I can't find that option ...
Hope I’m not going to get in trouble with the moderators but they are cooked with free power and 4,000 kCals with all the dark brown sugar and chocolate. Please allow this indiscretion.
 

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That's great, but what is your annual oil bill (incl servicing? Our PW is at 96% now and we have generated 27kWh, and the fudge brownies are being cooked, they smell delicious.
Yes, oil bill is a fly in the ointment. It’s at least £1K. It’s a storm I can weather for the time being. The task of moving to ground or air source is a bit monumental to serve both house and annex. One boiler serves both and h/w is also shared. it may require splitting and two source pumps.
We just had freebie shepherds pie 😁
 
I always find myself confused as to the "free electricity" argument with solar.

If I buy 16 solar panels, which generate 5,000kWh an annum, on a system life of 25 years, and that costs me £8k. Let's say.

I've effectively purchased 125,000kWh for £8,000. Today. So of course I benefit from energy inflation in the future but that's a reality, today.

I've hedged 5,000kWh at 6.4p/kWh, fixed. (give or take peaks in generation)

Can someone explain to me how the electricity generated by my panels, is now free? I mean I'm all for free tray bakes and pies etc....
 
I always find myself confused as to the "free electricity" argument with solar.

If I buy 16 solar panels, which generate 5,000kWh an annum, on a system life of 25 years, and that costs me £8k. Let's say.

I've effectively purchased 125,000kWh for £8,000. Today. So of course I benefit from energy inflation in the future but that's a reality, today.

I've hedged 5,000kWh at 6.4p/kWh, fixed. (give or take peaks in generation)

Can someone explain to me how the electricity generated by my panels, is now free? I mean I'm all for free tray bakes and pies etc....
It's certainly not free but many nevertheless view it as such.

This came up during a conversation with my wife several years ago.... "when we are dead do you think we will be down to our last £xxk to leave to the girls...If not why not write it off now and use it for our benefit rather than theirs?

Over the years she has also spent similar money on things that sparkle and shine in the sun, neither of us have any intention of recouping the initial costs but both agree that it's a great feeling to run grid free for a substantial part of the year plus minimal ongoing cost for the remainder.
 
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I always find myself confused as to the "free electricity" argument with solar.

If I buy 16 solar panels, which generate 5,000kWh an annum, on a system life of 25 years, and that costs me £8k. Let's say.

I've effectively purchased 125,000kWh for £8,000. Today. So of course I benefit from energy inflation in the future but that's a reality, today.

I've hedged 5,000kWh at 6.4p/kWh, fixed. (give or take peaks in generation)

Can someone explain to me how the electricity generated by my panels, is now free? I mean I'm all for free tray bakes and pies etc....

Yeah, I can explain it.

It's free by proxy, and I'm happy with that.

I typically spend £20,000 per year on a mixture of non-ROI type purchases.

Holidays, Motorcycles, Gadgets... actually Motorcycles is my 'boy toy' weakness.

But over the Lockdown Pandemic, all my 'boys toys' projects and Holidays got put on hold.

This £40k two year budget of wastage, was shoved into Solar Panels & Batteries.

So instead of messing about with my mates, blasting around the Countryside literally burning the money... I bought Solar & batteries instead.

Now, when the Sun Shines, I really do look at every day as free electricity. Because that money would have been history (in fuel, depreciation, wear & tear, maintenance, and other associated consequential financial losses, from blasting around with your mates).

I know a lot of people buy Solar Panels & batteries for investment purposes, but I didn't. I did it because I had a lot of time on my hands over lockdown and wanted something to keep me busy. It was the perfect gadget project for me to keep my sanity 😀
 
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Yes, oil bill is a fly in the ointment. It’s at least £1K. It’s a storm I can weather for the time being. The task of moving to ground or air source is a bit monumental to serve both house and annex. One boiler serves both and h/w is also shared. it may require splitting and two source pumps.
We just had freebie shepherds pie 😁

do you know roughly what kwhs you'd need for heating and h/w? you could move one away from oil initially depending on what excess electric you may have (or what off peak you can harness wiht battery).

H/W you could look at something like a sunamp or mixergy for trickle charging, leaving only heating to oil. And can be fun to at least do a review on heat loss etc to see if an ASHP would work for you for heating given your current rooms/insulation/radiators. Or possibly Air to air with wall mounted units? Would give similar COP as a big 'whole home' ASHP
 
do you know roughly what kwhs you'd need for heating and h/w? you could move one away from oil initially depending on what excess electric you may have (or what off peak you can harness wiht battery).

H/W you could look at something like a sunamp or mixergy for trickle charging, leaving only heating to oil. And can be fun to at least do a review on heat loss etc to see if an ASHP would work for you for heating given your current rooms/insulation/radiators. Or possibly Air to air with wall mounted units? Would give similar COP as a big 'whole home' ASHP
It’s a project to get my head round. 12 rooms, 2 hallways, 16 rads. The stats below below show what’s spare but second set of panels and second PW were installed Jan 2020. The new panels shut down if I export. I don’t have an idea of what they might do if there is little or no export.
7 rads are modern the rest are 1980’s
A sunamp could work. The boiler cupboard will be empty. Outside wall space for AHSP units is a bit tricky but I guess there are options that be engineered. With the new panels allowed to run it should help reduce import but it’s mostly during winter





From SolarOff peakPeakTotal gridTotal KW inExport To gridNett power used
20196347802.31411.7221485619757586
202084071988.19198.8121871059410859509
20217522.342208.3859.922268.39790.6412758515.64
0
 
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It’s a project to get my head round

One answer here is to sort out insulation - to the point where you don't need any "central heating" - on the few really cold days of the year just use a fan heater. Maybe reducing your Oil Usage by - what? - 90%? might be enough, and just keep the existing until it is defunct. The longer that is the more chance that better Tech will be available ... maybe V2H EV and just "burn" the power when you need heat will be the most cost effective solution in 10 years - when the whole North Sea is covered in Wind Turbines and your car has a 100kWh battery, and you only drive 50 miles a week ...

Passive House energy requirement is of the order of 15 kWh/(m²yr) for heating
For EnerPHit (retrospective upgrade to a property that cannot achieve Passive House) that is 25kWh/(m²yr)

(depending how far North you are within Europe as a whole)

I'd be interested to hear how your current oil fuel usage compares with that.

I think retrofit of existing houses, to those levels, is just plain unaffordable ... Wifee and I built a Passive House extension; main part of the house is basically "1960 poured concrete" and as such already very air tight, and as such probably more easily "upgraded" than other recent-builds, yet we decided it was far too hard.

(In our case no South facing aspect, which the extension does now have, and also a risk that the concrete floors, which contained the heating pipes, might well contain asbestos pipe lagging, and no wish to undertake the effort [cost + move-out-for-months] that would have been needed to sort that out)

I'm also interested in "how little" can be done to insulation etc. to get worthwhile benefit. Over the first two decades we lived here we filled the cavity, insulated the loft far more, added double glazing, and some other improvements. And then we had damp problems - not the sort that grow mushrooms on the ceiling! but condensation on the inside of windows, and the fact that air quality wasn't great (in the old days people would have just aired-the-house and thrown all the windows open in mid-Winter. An expensive option these days). We could have conquered that by raising the thermostats - but having done all that work the pay-off was that the house was comfortable to live in with same/lower thermostat setting - and commensurate fuel reduction.

So after adding Passive House extension, and discovering how fabulous the air quality was, we retro fitted MVHR to the old part - that took care of the condensation and any poor air quality (the sorts of things where previously air in a corner or a spare bedroom didn't really get circulated was solved by MVHR forcing air into the room - in a controlled fashion - that's far more effective than just living in a draughty building!)

My understanding is that "doing a bit" and then "A bit more" (as many DIY'ers will have done over the decades) doesn't work anything like as well as getting the building up to Passive House or EnerPHit standards. Also building regs have increased recommendations - the loft insulation depth has doubled every decade for the last umpteen decades ... so DIYers have re-done that job (or paid to have it done) numerous times, rather than once and right-first-time and spend-the-money-once.

My experience of Passive House is the absence of draughts. Part of the design calculations is that the inside window glass surface temperature must not get so cold (I think 4C below room temperature) that the air falls (convection) which then causes occupants to sense a draught .. .and wack the thermostat up, or just be uncomfortable. If we go away in mid winter for a weekend and turn everything off the house loses about 1-2C in that time ... if we invite a dozen friends round for an evening meal in November we will likely have to open a window to get rid of the excess heat (better still remember to jack the MVHR up to Max before they arrive, but I seldom remember to do that, nor (much to Wifees chagrin) put the Climate on in the car when I get up from the table in a restaurant ...)

Also once you get the building air tight you can have the benefits of MVHR. Wifee and I have not had a single winter cough / cold in the had dozen years we've had MVHR - even though working in an office with people around us coughing and sneezing all winter (Covid apart)

For anyone not in their forever home I can't imagine why they would spend the money. People say if PV "I might move" ... multiple that cost by 10x and then decide how significant a move might be! House is still the same footprint - adding a conservatory at least increases the footprint, and that is included in any sale price. "Same footprint, but really good insulation" ... not sure that gets you much for a 2nd hand house.

One option would be to get a PHPP calculation on your house, and then see what various changes might achieve - PHPP allows what-if calculations like "Double the loft insulation", "Add triple glazing", "Wrap the whole house" ...
 
One answer here is to sort out insulation - to the point where you don't need any "central heating" - on the few really cold days of the year just use a fan heater. Maybe reducing your Oil Usage by - what? - 90%? might be enough, and just keep the existing until it is defunct. The longer that is the more chance that better Tech will be available ... maybe V2H EV and just "burn" the power when you need heat will be the most cost effective solution in 10 years - when the whole North Sea is covered in Wind Turbines and your car has a 100kWh battery, and you only drive 50 miles a week ...

Passive House energy requirement is of the order of 15 kWh/(m²yr) for heating
For EnerPHit (retrospective upgrade to a property that cannot achieve Passive House) that is 25kWh/(m²yr)

(depending how far North you are within Europe as a whole)

I'd be interested to hear how your current oil fuel usage compares with that.

I think retrofit of existing houses, to those levels, is just plain unaffordable ... Wifee and I built a Passive House extension; main part of the house is basically "1960 poured concrete" and as such already very air tight, and as such probably more easily "upgraded" than other recent-builds, yet we decided it was far too hard.

(In our case no South facing aspect, which the extension does now have, and also a risk that the concrete floors, which contained the heating pipes, might well contain asbestos pipe lagging, and no wish to undertake the effort [cost + move-out-for-months] that would have been needed to sort that out)

I'm also interested in "how little" can be done to insulation etc. to get worthwhile benefit. Over the first two decades we lived here we filled the cavity, insulated the loft far more, added double glazing, and some other improvements. And then we had damp problems - not the sort that grow mushrooms on the ceiling! but condensation on the inside of windows, and the fact that air quality wasn't great (in the old days people would have just aired-the-house and thrown all the windows open in mid-Winter. An expensive option these days). We could have conquered that by raising the thermostats - but having done all that work the pay-off was that the house was comfortable to live in with same/lower thermostat setting - and commensurate fuel reduction.

So after adding Passive House extension, and discovering how fabulous the air quality was, we retro fitted MVHR to the old part - that took care of the condensation and any poor air quality (the sorts of things where previously air in a corner or a spare bedroom didn't really get circulated was solved by MVHR forcing air into the room - in a controlled fashion - that's far more effective than just living in a draughty building!)

My understanding is that "doing a bit" and then "A bit more" (as many DIY'ers will have done over the decades) doesn't work anything like as well as getting the building up to Passive House or EnerPHit standards. Also building regs have increased recommendations - the loft insulation depth has doubled every decade for the last umpteen decades ... so DIYers have re-done that job (or paid to have it done) numerous times, rather than once and right-first-time and spend-the-money-once.

My experience of Passive House is the absence of draughts. Part of the design calculations is that the inside window glass surface temperature must not get so cold (I think 4C below room temperature) that the air falls (convection) which then causes occupants to sense a draught .. .and wack the thermostat up, or just be uncomfortable. If we go away in mid winter for a weekend and turn everything off the house loses about 1-2C in that time ... if we invite a dozen friends round for an evening meal in November we will likely have to open a window to get rid of the excess heat (better still remember to jack the MVHR up to Max before they arrive, but I seldom remember to do that, nor (much to Wifees chagrin) put the Climate on in the car when I get up from the table in a restaurant ...)

Also once you get the building air tight you can have the benefits of MVHR. Wifee and I have not had a single winter cough / cold in the had dozen years we've had MVHR - even though working in an office with people around us coughing and sneezing all winter (Covid apart)

For anyone not in their forever home I can't imagine why they would spend the money. People say if PV "I might move" ... multiple that cost by 10x and then decide how significant a move might be! House is still the same footprint - adding a conservatory at least increases the footprint, and that is included in any sale price. "Same footprint, but really good insulation" ... not sure that gets you much for a 2nd hand house.

One option would be to get a PHPP calculation on your house, and then see what various changes might achieve - PHPP allows what-if calculations like "Double the loft insulation", "Add triple glazing", "Wrap the whole house" ...
Passive house won’t work for us. The dogs are constantly in and out winter & summer!
loft insulation was increased about 8 years ago. Cavity walls done 13 years ago.
we lose quite a bit through our conservatory overnight, which is 4 years old. That’s because the inner patio door to the lounge is left open. We kept head butting the door when it was shut !
I’m happy to run heating when needed. I can’t remember the EPC score, but it was near the top.
The heating will change at some point. I’m happy to leave the upheaval for now though
 
Yeah, I can explain it.

It's free by proxy, and I'm happy with that.

I typically spend £20,000 per year on a mixture of non-ROI type purchases.

Holidays, Motorcycles, Gadgets... actually Motorcycles is my 'boy toy' weakness.

But over the Lockdown Pandemic, all my 'boys toys' projects and Holidays got put on hold.

This £40k two year budget of wastage, was shoved into Solar Panels & Batteries.

So instead of messing about with my mates, blasting around the Countryside literally burning the money... I bought Solar & batteries instead.

Now, when the Sun Shines, I really do look at every day as free electricity. Because that money would have been history (in fuel, depreciation, wear & tear, maintenance, and other associated consequential financial losses, from blasting around with your mates).

I know a lot of people buy Solar Panels & batteries for investment purposes, but I didn't. I did it because I had a lot of time on my hands over lockdown and wanted something to keep me busy. It was the perfect gadget project for me to keep my sanity 😀
There is no doubt it's fun, to the likes of the geeks like us who frequent the forums.

Got mine going in next week :p
 
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Passive house won’t work for us. The dogs are constantly in and out winter & summer!

Our dogs have a room, with outside door. The door from that to house is "sealed", so the dogs can have their door open without effecting balance of MVHR to rest of house ... dunno if your arrangement would allow that though. It suits us because the inner door is basically an external door, and has a proper lock. So when we go out we lock the inner door, leave the dogs outer door closed, but unlocked, and if we are unexpectedly delayed we can ask neighbours to rescue the dogs!

MVHR needs to be balanced - I'm sure obvious, but if the house leaks air somewhere then the exhaust air going through the MVHR is less than incoming ... and heat transfer is diminished. That apart, leaving doors / windows open is fine, it is just not a good idea at times when you would like to preserve the temperature of the house - i.e. it is either blinking cold outside, or blinking hot. At those times keeping everything shut is helpful to maintain the temperature, but that apart opening everything is fine. We use evening-venting in heatwave to cool the house. It isn't hot, but it will become hot over the course of 7 - 14 days prolonged heat if we do nothing ... and then the heat is quite hard to get rid of Natch! so at such times we cool it by opening windows of an evening. Cool air comes in, room temperature drops, fabric of the house absorbs that "coolness" ... then we close the windows, and the room temperature immediately bounces back! 'coz substantively altering the temperature of the fabric of the building takes a lot of Therms. A good thing, for constant temperature maintenance, but a nuisance if the house gets either very hot or cold - takes a lot of effort to get it back again :)

When we have guests in Summer it is quite common for them to throw the windows open in the morning <sigh>. Net effect the room heats up, and they will be too hot tonight. The ducted air is pumping through as much fresh air in a day as an open window for a few hours would do, so there is no need. But people think it weird that we don't routinely open windows ... personally I'd like to keep all the flies etc. out of the house ... and the pollen and dust.

The heating will change at some point. I’m happy to leave the upheaval for now though

Understood; we too did ours when it died (in 2008) and needed replacing anyway. I'm retirement age now and glad I had all that disruption back then :)