Solar happenings

[Robert.Boston]

Is that something that needs to change? Would that be a change for the better and be more in the direction of a smart grid?

There are discussions about creating a balancing market across the entire Western Interconnection, or at least a big chunk of it that would encompass WA, OR and CA. It's harder than it sounds, though, to allow real-time variations in transfers between control areas. An obvious fix would be to consolidate bigger areas into a single control area, which is what we've done in the swaths of the Eastern Interconnection. E.g., the PJM Interconnection runs the grid from New Jersey to Chicago to the NC Outer Banks. The PacNW states have never been able to develop a similar centralized dispatch because the Bonneville Power Administration refuses to join, and BPA's transmission is central to the PacNW operation.

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Can't that DC backbone reverse direction too? I was under the impression that they sent power down during their mild summers and we sent power up during our mild winters.

The power flow does flip in the winter, but not because CA has excess energy, but because AZ/NM does, and that energy flows up through CA to OR/WA.

 

[3mp_kwh]

There are discussions about creating a balancing market across the entire Western Interconnection

It can't come soon enough, IMO. BPA's Columbia nuke, its hydro and growing wind all create over-supply problems at night. I hope the new FERC transmission rule (1000) gets traction, and we see more interconnection. The other valuable tool yet to be exploited, it whether these states enter into regional plans where renewable energy purchases can offset a lack of domestic (state) generation. Getting power to states that make promises about renewables use, is one of the next utility profit centers. Cripes, PacNW overnight power can be a penny/kwh, or negative. There is very little parity in electric pricing. Lines will fix that.

 

[Model S P]

The power flow does flip in the winter, but not because CA has excess energy, but because AZ/NM does, and that energy flows up through CA to OR/WA.

Robert, I'm curious about the AZ POCOs. Based on wikipedia, they are not part of any ISO. Who handles the dispatch? Is it up to the individual assets like Palo Verde nuclear plant to control output?
Have you ever seen an hourly load profile for SRP or APS like the http://www.caiso.com/outlook/outlook.html CA-ISO chart? I'm very curious if residential solar has had noticeable effect on their load profiles yet.

 

[Robert.Boston]

APS and SRP are each their own balancing control area operator, so they call the shots about all grid-tied generation in their respective areas and schedule all interchange with CAISO and other control areas. My colleagues had worked to get a CAISO-like independent system operator in AZ, NM and NV called "Desert STAR" but various state politics killed that aborning.

 

[Lloyd]

Soligent is advertising panels for $.69/watt. That is the lowest I have ever seen!

 

[tigerade]

A good article on utility reaction to home solar power's rise.

Utilities, sensing threat, put squeeze on booming solar-roof industry - Nation - The Boston Globe

 

[RubberToe]

Thought I would mention a couple milestones we notched here in California. This Wednesday and Thursday (shown below) we hit 50,000+ MWh of daily production of solar and solar thermal. This is the first time that we ever hit that level for a single day. Also, February will be the first month where we will hit 1,000,000 MWh of total power produced. The interesting thing about these numbers is that the 1,000,000 MWh per month will probably now turn into a minimum versus a maximum, with new plants coming online. And then the 50,000 MWh daily rate at some point later will probably turn into a minimum too. Cloudy January days may delay that a couple years though.

If I have this right, 50,000 MWh would provide power for 1.67 million homes if they used 30 KWh each per day. Or enough to charge 588,235 85kw Model S cars from empty to full.

And, in 2014 overall, we got 5% of all power from large scale solar:

California Sets Solar Power Record −

 

[Robert.Boston]

This is particularly remarkable when you realize it does NOT include any of the on-site PV.

 

[RubberToe]

In 2016, Solar City will begin offering off-grid installations in Hawaii in partnership with Tesla. Like it says in the article: "The SolarCity statement on Hawaii is a clear shot across the bow to HECO that they are not going to lose any customers due to HECOs ban on new solar grid ties."

Let the death spiral begin...

SolarCity To Offer Off-Grid Solar Energy/Battery System To Eligible Customers In Hawaii In 2016 | CleanTechnica

 

[lolachampcar]

Someone asked in another thread about what path the utilities would take in dealing with PV. I suspected an effective (not Arizona) attack on net metering was coming and it sounds like HI did just that.

Utilities need to wise up and use their relationship with the customer, regulatory might and organizational/maintenance strength to put solar on everyone's roof. They could dramatically undercut Solar City and make themselves relevant in thirty years if they would just gently pull their head out of their, uh, pocket.

Oh, and they should do storage on a neighborhood basis where it is much more efficient. Given that they would have nearly EVERY customer, they would have data to properly size and manage that system as well.

It is a shame........

 

[Robert.Boston]

The governor of Maine has just introduced legislation that would repeal net metering and in its place create an entity that would aggregate distributed generation and pay it a "fair" rate. Yeah, right.

 

[miimura]

The governor of Maine has just introduced legislation that would repeal net metering and in its place create an entity that would aggregate distributed generation and pay it a "fair" rate. Yeah, right.

As someone who acquired solar on the basis of net metering, I doubt any new feed in scheme would seem "fair" to me. I would be strongly motivated at that point to minimize my feed in by getting a battery system to maximize my use of my own solar generation. I am a significant net user of grid electricity, mostly due to overnight EV charging, but there is lots of room for me to avoid drawing from the grid during my peak rate hours of 2pm-9pm. I would say that 75-80% of my solar generation happens before 2pm.

Edit: One question - why is this in the hands of the governor and not the PUC or equivalent?

 

[Robert.Boston]

Edit: One question - why is this in the hands of the governor and not the PUC or equivalent?

The PUC in any state only executes the laws; it doesn't write them. Net metering in Maine was established by law, and so it takes a new law to revoke it. (Maine is unusual in that the governor can directly file legislation, though this is fairly unimportant as it's always easy to find a legislator who is willing to file a bill that the governor wants.)

 

[nwdiver]

The governor of Maine has just introduced legislation that would repeal net metering and in its place create an entity that would aggregate distributed generation and pay it a "fair" rate. Yeah, right.

Net Metering is only sustainable with small penetrations of PV; There are several positive behaviors net metering does nothing to motivate like installing PV facing more west than south to better match production with consumption and storage.

It will be a challenge but there needs to be an independent entity that assesses the value of exported energy.

 

[Dave EV]

Net Metering is only sustainable with small penetrations of PV; There are several positive behaviors net metering does nothing to motivate like installing PV facing more west than south to better match production with consumption and storage.

Eh? Net metering with the appropriate TOU rate definitely motivates people to install panels in the direction that maximizes the economic benefit. My current net-metering TOU rates has a peak rate of $0.47 / kWh from 12pm-6pm. It is definitely better for me to tilt my panels to the west than the east, or even south. It's not hard to imagine other TOU rates that would further encourage pushing PV production towards the late afternoon peak.

 

[nwdiver]

Eh? Net metering with the appropriate TOU rate definitely motivates people to install panels in the direction that maximizes the economic benefit. My current net-metering TOU rates has a peak rate of $0.47 / kWh from 12pm-6pm. It is definitely better for me to tilt my panels to the west than the east, or even south. It's not hard to imagine other TOU rates that would further encourage pushing PV production towards the late afternoon peak.

Net-Metering + TOU is a slightly different critter; The net-metering I'm familiar with in WA and NM is simply Imports - Exports = Use. There is no TOU in WA or NM.

 

[hcsharp]

Net-Metering + TOU is a slightly different critter; The net-metering I'm familiar with in WA and NM is simply Imports - Exports = Use. There is no TOU in WA or NM.

Indeed. Here in VT you are not allowed TOU rates if you have solar. Until recently, after net metered customers reach a certain percent of penetration then the utility didn't have to accept any more net meter installations. At least one small utility in VT reached its limit about 2 years ago and wouldn't accept any more net metered solar installations. The legislature then changed the law to compromise with the utility but it's not as favorable to solar as it used to be.

I haven't had a chance to find out what Green Mountain Power is offering WRT the Powerwall. It's the largest VT utility and they are one of the first 5 partners with Tesla. Unless something has changed they don't allow TOU and net metering at the same location, so I can't see the value of home storage unless you don't have solar.

 

[Ampster]

.......... Unless something has changed they don't allow TOU and net metering at the same location, so I can't see the value of home storage unless you don't have solar.

I am not sure I understand your last sentence. It would seem to me that the value of home storage is that you don't need a net metering arrangment at all. The combination of solar and some storage with a TOU rate could have a good payback. I understand it would depend on rate differentials. Nevertheless it would allow a homeowner to install solar without the need for permission of the utility. That has value and that is what Solar City plans on doing in Hawaii, given the recalcitrance of HECO.

 

[ggies07]

For those that live in TX: Electricity Market Reform: Why Texas Could be Next

 

[hcsharp]

I am not sure I understand your last sentence. It would seem to me that the value of home storage is that you don't need a net metering arrangment at all. The combination of solar and some storage with a TOU rate could have a good payback. I understand it would depend on rate differentials. Nevertheless it would allow a homeowner to install solar without the need for permission of the utility. That has value and that is what Solar City plans on doing in Hawaii, given the recalcitrance of HECO.

In my first paragraph I said If you have solar in VT, and you are connected to the grid, then they don't allow TOU rates. I think you didn't understand my last sentence because I said they don't allow TOU rates with net metering. There would be value (in VT) in home storage but only if you had TOU rates and no solar, OR you went off the grid. I haven't checked to see what Green Mtn Power is offering with the Powerwall but there must be something compelling because they became a Tesla Energy Partner.