Solar Panels UK - is it worth it?

[tomorrowman]

Had the Octopus survey done today, very thorough. I asked when they expect to offer the Givenergy 13.5kWh all-in-one but they didn't know. We don't have a lot of suitable wall space inside so my preference is to locate the battery outside on the side of the house. The installer of the Powerwall had no issues with this but the Octopus guys were not as keen. Said they prefer to locate inside but could go outside if there are no other options and it should really have a canopy to give it some protection from direct sunlight and rain (although I think this is more for the inverter).

The only other possibility is to find an installer of the Givenergy 13.5 all-in-one battery but I don't think the cost would be that much less than the above. I don't really want to wait another 6+ months for Octopus to start offering it.

At this stage I'm leaning towards going for the Powerwall.

I had the same conundrum for my battery only install. Went GivEnergy in end due to:

• Pricing: This has changed the 2 devices should be at parity cost wise but some installers are not passing on the price drops.
• Battery chemistry: Not a fan of NMC (PW2) in the household storage scenario feel more comfortable with LFP (GivEnergy)

If I had the patience I'd have waited until 2024 and putting in PW3.

• Battery chemistry changed to LFP
• Max output of 11.5kW will power just about any household
• Built in Solar Invertor. So although behaves like a normal AC coupled battery, DC solar can be wired straight in and either charge battery or be DC-AC inverted and feed house or grid.

Tidy looking setup, which should reduce install costs (I believe that was the aim with PW3)

 

[GRiLLA]

I had the same conundrum for my battery only install. Went GivEnergy in end due to:

• Pricing: This has changed the 2 devices should be at parity cost wise but some installers are not passing on the price drops.
• Battery chemistry: Not a fan of NMC (PW2) in the household storage scenario feel more comfortable with LFP (GivEnergy)

If I had the patience I'd have waited until 2024 and putting in PW3.

• Battery chemistry changed to LFP
• Max output of 11.5kW will power just about any household
• Built in Solar Invertor. So although behaves like a normal AC coupled battery, DC solar can be wired straight in and either charge battery or be DC-AC inverted and feed house or grid.

Tidy looking setup, which should reduce install costs (I believe that was the aim with PW3)

I would suggest people remember that Tesla and SolarEdge are quite premium prices, Giv Energy aren't far behind either.

There are plenty of cheaper options from other manufacturers, maybe don't have exactly the same specs.

For example I have a Sunsynk 5kW Hybrid Inverter, which is capable of charging/discharging the associated batteries at 5.5kW rate, for a 16 panel array with 9.5kWh available battery it came to £11.4K,

 

[exlatccatsa]

For those with Victron systems, they're just about to introduce a software upgrade called Dynamic ESS. Video here.

It's beta at the moment but essentially it will take the future price of electricity import and export, together with your battery SOC, your house useage and the solar forecast and work out and implement a " plan" to maximise your earnings for the next few hours.
And the best part is that it's a free software upgrade so anyone with a GX device will be able to use it.

Clever stuff

 

[notmeguv]

I had the same conundrum for my battery only install. Went GivEnergy in end due to:

• Pricing: This has changed the 2 devices should be at parity cost wise but some installers are not passing on the price drops.
• Battery chemistry: Not a fan of NMC (PW2) in the household storage scenario feel more comfortable with LFP (GivEnergy)

If I had the patience I'd have waited until 2024 and putting in PW3.

• Battery chemistry changed to LFP
• Max output of 11.5kW will power just about any household
• Built in Solar Invertor. So although behaves like a normal AC coupled battery, DC solar can be wired straight in and either charge battery or be DC-AC inverted and feed house or grid.

Tidy looking setup, which should reduce install costs (I believe that was the aim with PW3)

I did think about waiting but I’m also too impatient. Also a bit nervous about other prices going up in the meantime (panels, fitting, scaffolding, etc).

The only place we can locate the battery is on the side of the house. Due to an extension there is only one fairly narrow passageway to the back garden which is where the battery will live. The PW3 is a little bit deeper than the PW2, not much but enough that could make it a little bit trickier to get stuff through. I’ve just realised this also rules out the Givenergy All-in-one which is twice the depth of the PW2 (280mm vs 140mm).

Looks like I might have made a decision!

 

[Chimpy McChimp]

The PW is well weather sealed, and many people have had them outside for quite some time without problems. The Giv kit was always "well, it's IPxx rated, and it should be OK outside, but we'd really rather you built it a little roof to keep it dryish".

My givenergy battery and inverter are on outside of house. The installers fitted a canopy which, frankly is useless for shade and keeping dry if it rains (it's one of those cheap things to put above an external door). But they said it's really to keep snow off it than anything else

 

[Mrklaw]

What is the difference between IP65, IP67 & IP68?​

The differences between commonly sold IP65, IP67, & IP68 strips are slight, but very important. Using the above chart as a guide, we can see that all strips are protected at the highest level from solids and dust. The variations come with the protection against liquids.

IP65 = Water resistant. “Protected against water jets from any angle” *Do NOT submerge IP65 LED lights, these are not waterproof.

IP67 = Water resistant plus. “Protected against the events of temporary submersion (10 minutes)”*Do NOT submerge IP67 LED lights for extended periods, these are not waterproof.

IP68 = Waterproof “Protected against the events of permanent submersion up to 3 meters”

Givenergy is IP65, PW2 is IP67. to me they’re both rated to suit exposure to rain

 

[Dilly]

just to give an answer to the thread question directly; it’s a resounding yes from me.

I started with PV in 2015 and even then, more by accident. EV’s and Powerwalls followed later.

In 2008, my electric bills were £900-£1000. The annual bill October 2022 to yesterday was £306 which is £100 more than last year. Go off-peak went up 50% to 7.5p.

in tandem with that my PV earnt circa £1200 in FIT payments.

My wife’s Peugeot EV, purchased in February, has cost £11.58 in fuel but absolutely nothing since April 1st.
My Tesla costs about £30 a year in fuel during the winter months but again, absolutely nothing from April to September (except holiday SuC visits).

I accept that in having so much PV and storage, I’m fortunate and given that today’s PV no longer benefits from FIT, but that aside, I’m sure it‘s worth it, if only for the planet.

I also accept that the investment was pretty considerable too, but it was money well spent.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I also accept that the investment was pretty considerable too, but it was money well spent.

I think this may be a key point for folk in, say, their 50s and who have some invested capital or a windfall. Swapping that investment / windfall for PV / Battery will take away the uncertainty of energy cost into retirement and, in effect, provide a tax free income as the alternative investment.

 

[Pete UK]

Is there on left column "Intelligent Octopus Go", but Go now has its own Outgoing Lite tariff at 8 p/kWh, since it lacks the dynamic load balancing of IO.

After a phone call this morning I’m back on the 12M fixed 15p export tariff. My IO import tariff now has a new name showing: “Intelligent Octopus GO” (same rates) so that makes sense with the table you posted now.

 

[phil4]

Yep, mine's been renamed "Intelligent Octopus Go". No communication yet. They really don't make life easy for themselves with messing with things like that.

 

[thewishy]

If anybody fancies a laugh, just had a colleague quoted under the Surrey Solar Together scheme. 14 x 425w panels = 5.95kWp.
And they quoted.... a 3kw hybrid inverter. Not even a 3.6kw. Admittedly they can side-bar some of the extra to the battery (3kw charge/discharge), but.. wow...

 

[yessuz]

are those panels on two separate sides? like 7 east 7 west?

 

[thewishy]

are those panels on two separate sides? like 7 east 7 west?

No, single aspect! I could understand going for a 3.6 if it was east-west

 

[phil4]

No, single aspect! I could understand going for a 3.6 if it was east-west

I was reading one of the solar facebook groups the other day... as a consumer it was a terrifying read... some of the installers simply have no idea what they're doing. This particular one was someone fitting a new Giv AIO. They'd got the solar and inverter running, but had no idea about the AIO, what was needed, what comms... no, they'd not been on the training course.

To think we assume they know what they're doing, let them in, and pay them... but in reality they may have no idea, and it's just bodge it until it works... or doesn't.

 

[MrT3]

This particular one was someone fitting a new Giv AIO. They'd got the solar and inverter running, but had no idea about the AIO, what was needed, what comms... no, they'd not been on the training course.

To think we assume they know what they're doing, let them in, and pay them... but in reality they may have no idea, and it's just bodge it until it works... or doesn't.

You need to have been training to commission/register the equipment but I suspect it is quite common for a single person within a company to attend training and their login details are then shared.

 

[Mrklaw]

I've gone 100% on my battery after a couple days of horrid solar barely keeping my battery level on charge during the day. Will dig out some info on how much energy is used during the day (5:30-23:30) too, once we've had the induction for a while to allow for that increase to bed in. But hopefully that should be fairly straightforward to cover 18hrs with off peak. Main thing to contend with is if it gives me enough buffer to be relaxed about my wife putting the tumble dryer on..

 

[yessuz]

I've gone 100% on my battery after a couple days of horrid solar barely keeping my battery level on charge during the day. Will dig out some info on how much energy is used during the day (5:30-23:30) too, once we've had the induction for a while to allow for that increase to bed in. But hopefully that should be fairly straightforward to cover 18hrs with off peak. Main thing to contend with is if it gives me enough buffer to be relaxed about my wife putting the tumble dryer on..

remind - what is your battery capacity?

with current export rate of 15p, it makes sense to fully charge batteries during off-peak rate and then sell any surplus to grid.
Yesterday it was crap sun wise, but I managed to stay at >50% until 23:30

So yesterday, I imported 4.6 kwh from grid (most being night for battery charge at 7.5p), and exported 5.5 kwh at 15p

I might even be in monies yesterday... and it was miserable really.

On Sunday I exported 3.1 kwh (but imported 29.5 kwh during off peak for car and batteries). so it cost me a bit... but still, If I have to top up few % on the car from the sun or grid, it almost makes more sense to charge car from grid and then fingers crossed to see some sun

 

[Pink Duck]

Flux→IO as of Sunday, though puzzling over why PW2 SoC has fallen from 100 % to 30 % while ignoring the 7 p/kWh overnight with 15p/kWh export at any time available to make gain under Time of Use mode. All solar excess obviously going direct to grid to avoid round-trip losses. Will be interesting to see if it reaches Backup Reserve then goes for a single overnight top-up burst. Wouldn’t be surprised if a Tesla App bug and have to toggle modes.

Could change Super Off-peak sale price down to 14 p/kWh to encourage it to do arbitrage perhaps.

 

[Mrklaw]

remind - what is your battery capacity?

with current export rate of 15p, it makes sense to fully charge batteries during off-peak rate and then sell any surplus to grid.
Yesterday it was crap sun wise, but I managed to stay at >50% until 23:30

9.5kwh. Digging around givenergy at the moment.

I don't have any export - FIT array isn't mine yet (until november) so I can't add my second array without going off deemed export which I don't think is worth it (will have to do the sums)

Just reduced my octopus DD to £100 a month. using 370kwh a month at off peak (even without solar) is about £50 and gas even 1500kwh which was my coldest month over the last 12 months is £70 at current tracker rates. Already £250 in credit so will keep an eye on it but should be ok I think.

 

[phil4]

Flux→IO as of Sunday, though puzzling over why PW2 SoC has fallen from 100 % to 30 % while ignoring the 7 p/kWh overnight with 15p/kWh export at any time available to make gain under Time of Use mode. All solar excess obviously going direct to grid to avoid round-trip losses. Will be interesting to see if it reaches Backup Reserve then goes for a single overnight top-up burst. Wouldn’t be surprised if a Tesla App bug and have to toggle modes.

Could change Super Off-peak sale price down to 14 p/kWh to encourage it to do arbitrage perhaps.

I found that if you put -anything- in the sell price for super off peak, it won't charge. No idea why.