Solar Roof, big price increase

[wjgjr]

Because that "unforeseen" part allows them to dissolve the original contract obligations. It's far easier to simply send a new contract than to annotate changes in the original - it's a new "clean" contract.

Even if we assume these are unforeseen conditions as defined in the contract (and I disagree that "unforeseen conditions at the installation location" cover some of the examples presented), the remedy within the contract is to "receive an updated Price Sheet to accept or reject. If you reject the updated Price Sheet, this agreement will terminate."

It is fair to ask whether this is really a substantial difference, though I see two at least two ways in which it could be. First, at least when we were going though the process, Tesla continued to use the same relative, approximate start date in every iteration of the contract, effectively resetting the date for performance with each new contract. While Tesla assured me that wouldn't actually affect scheduling (and, in my case, they were correct), when combined with the emails folks have received about prioritizing installs in the order of signing the new contract, the distinction could be seen as material. Second, if any other terms were changed (and I'm not sure if that has been established) in the new contract, that would also be an issue.

 

[wwu123]

Huh? Because the "unforeseen" part overrides the original price. Arbitration is a separate part of the contract.


Because that "unforeseen" part allows them to dissolve the original contract obligations. It's far easier to simply send a new contract than to annotate changes in the original - it's a new "clean" contract.

It's far easier to send a updated "Price Sheet", as the original contract said they would send to amend the original contract based on the "unforeseen" part, without making any other changes to the rest of the contract. That honors the original contract obligations - it's a clean "old" contract. Why are they making changes all over the contract, as some folks have done cut/paste comparisons, and then asking people to sign all these non-price changes?

 

[h2ofun]

Let's be clear about the language: it's "unforeseen circumstances at the installation location". Not just 'something changed in the world that we didn't expect to happen over a year after we signed this agreement with you.' Nothing has changed at my, or many other peoples' location since the agreements were signed. I've talked to several local contractors that admitted to have taken losses on lumber-intensive projects lately because they believe in truth in agreements between people. Also, they don't have a $650B market cap. I'm with cn256 above, too, my roof size is accurate and nothing about the design has changed. On my simple colonial with attached garage, I have 5 rectangles and 3 vents (no valleys) - pretty simple.

good luck.. Anyone going to bet who will "win"

 

[jk732]

So who's fault is it? Well, Tesla shares the majority of the blame for being too eager to jump into the market with poorly designed software, BUT look at your contract - is the listed size of your roof correct or undersized?... Most likely it was undersized, and anyone entering into a multi-thousand dollar contract should have checked ahead to know what size they were contracting (get an estimate from a roofer) and thus should have seen that Tesla's figures were too low. (I measured my roof, and knew that Tesla's estimated 1589 Sqft was far short of my actual 2250 Sqft roof.)

Tesla contract has an accurate information on roof size (I have compared it with roofers' estimate I got few months back and also from www.roofr.com) so I don't think Tesla has wrong information. Also they have all information including roof complexity so how they can factor those now and try to get more money from customers ? I totally disagree with it. BTW, my price has been increased from $87k to $132k before any credit, that's big ouch !

 

[SMFS]

Someone should find out if Tesla is still planning to abide by the part of the contract that says they will pay any arbitration fees. I haven't even been able to get them to admit they are refusing to honor the original contract, but it seems some other people's project managers are being more forthcoming about that. If they won't pay, I wonder if that opens them up to a civil suit (since we'd be able to tell the court that Tesla refused to pay so we couldn't arbitrate).

 

[wjgjr]

It's far easier to send a updated "Price Sheet", as the original contract said they would send to amend the original contract based on the "unforeseen" part, without making any other changes to the rest of the contract. That honors the original contract obligations - it's a clean "old" contract. Why are they making changes all over the contract, as some folks have done cut/paste comparisons, and then asking people to sign all these non-price changes?

If there are other changes to the contract, this does seem like an independent reason to demonstrate Tesla is breaching the agreement, as they do not have the right to terminate the contract or change any other provisions under the "Contract Price" clause other than to issue the updated price sheet. It is not clear to me that this changes much in terms of damages in a lawsuit/arbitration (particularly since Tesla could cure by issuing an updated price sheet and promising to hold to the approximate start date) but it does seem like something the relevant regulators might care about since it feels like further evidence of inappropriate business practices.

 

[SMFS]

Huh? Because the "unforeseen" part overrides the original price. Arbitration is a separate part of the contract.


Because that "unforeseen" part allows them to dissolve the original contract obligations. It's far easier to simply send a new contract than to annotate changes in the original - it's a new "clean" contract.

Just to be clear, we have zero evidence of Tesla invoking this clause. If you have actually seen Tesla making this statement please share it. I don't think a reasonable read of this language would consider a companywide policy to change prices falls under "unexpected conditions at the installation location", or how a blanket changes to powerwall prices also falls under the same clause.

 

[TGosla]

Another victim here. Am new to the forum. Similar to others, my price increased by $20K - all of it to the solar tiles. We live in the Bay Area. Our contract was signed, permits done and scheduling was pending.
Tried reaching my Tesla Solar Roof Advisor. But, after waiting for about 1 hr I just spoke to a different Tesla rep.. Will withhold on names to not impact the reps. All that the rep could reason is, top management decided to make the change. No other details - raw material price increase nor labor costs nor any other costs. He tried reasoning that Tesla can increase prices based on site visit etc., to which I pointed out Site visit was done long back. Nothing that he said truly stuck and was very evident he didnt have a reason for it.

I see people provide justification around Tesla's costs going up or the company realizing the economics now - neither of these stick. Tesla (SolarCity) has been in this business since 2006 and its dumb to think they didnt have a grasp of the economics.

Either Mr. Musk just realized there is money on the table Tesla left out and decided to screw his customers OR someone in his management made this call. Knowing Mr Musk and his erratic behavior, would not surprised if he made this call.

 

[wjgjr]

Someone should find out if Tesla is still planning to abide by the part of the contract that says they will pay any arbitration fees. I haven't even been able to get them to admit they are refusing to honor the original contract, but it seems some other people's project managers are being more forthcoming about that. If they won't pay, I wonder if that opens them up to a civil suit (since we'd be able to tell the court that Tesla refused to pay so we couldn't arbitrate).

Though I admit to already being surprised by Tesla's behavior, it would really surprise me if Tesla refused to fund the arbitration, for the very reason you pointed out. I am sure they will pay for the process, and they will likely have well-prepared answers to the variety of issues discussed here.

 

[rspray2000]

If there are other changes to the contract, this does seem like an independent reason to demonstrate Tesla is breaching the agreement, as they do not have the right to terminate the contract or change any other provisions under the "Contract Price" clause other than to issue the updated price sheet. It is not clear to me that this changes much in terms of damages in a lawsuit/arbitration (particularly since Tesla could cure by issuing an updated price sheet and promising to hold to the approximate start date) but it does seem like something the relevant regulators might care about since it feels like further evidence of inappropriate business practices.

There are definitely more changes than just the cost. I posted about some of the ones that immediately stood out to me back here: Solar Roof, big price increase

The kicker: they changed "unforeseen conditions at the installation location" to just "unforeseen circumstances"

 

[KKinNJ]

There are definitely more changes than just the cost. I posted about some of the ones that immediately stood out to me back here: Solar Roof, big price increase

The kicker: they changed "unforeseen conditions at the installation location" to just "unforeseen circumstances"

Good lord. I didn't even look for that, but you're right. This makes it even worse, IMHO, as that means that Tesla is modifying the contract language to give themselves more room for similar arbitrary price changes in the future. It also means that they recognized that the original clause doesn't adequately protect them in the current scenario. I suspect that both of these things could be used against them in the arbitration proceedings or in court.

 

[dboya]

Another victim here. Am new to the forum. Similar to others, my price increased by $20K - all of it to the solar tiles. We live in the Bay Area. Our contract was signed, permits done and scheduling was pending.
Tried reaching my Tesla Solar Roof Advisor. But, after waiting for about 1 hr I just spoke to a different Tesla rep.. Will withhold on names to not impact the reps. All that the rep could reason is, top management decided to make the change. No other details - raw material price increase nor labor costs nor any other costs. He tried reasoning that Tesla can increase prices based on site visit etc., to which I pointed out Site visit was done long back. Nothing that he said truly stuck and was very evident he didnt have a reason for it.

I see people provide justification around Tesla's costs going up or the company realizing the economics now - neither of these stick. Tesla (SolarCity) has been in this business since 2006 and its dumb to think they didnt have a grasp of the economics.

Either Mr. Musk just realized there is money on the table Tesla left out and decided to screw his customers OR someone in his management made this call. Knowing Mr Musk and his erratic behavior, would not surprised if he made this call.

My advisor emailed me the below as part of a longer email:
“Price increase is also based on price per sq ft which is now been increased to $14 per sq ft. The price of supplies have increased and we had to increase our prices with the supply and demand. This is applied to all orders and both complexity and price per sq ft are set terms. The company has stated this is applied to every single order, signed or unsigned contract. No exceptions are being made as this matter is beyond us Project Advisors and our Management.”

 

[WaitingForRoof]

Another victim here. Am new to the forum. Similar to others, my price increased by $20K - all of it to the solar tiles. We live in the Bay Area. Our contract was signed, permits done and scheduling was pending.
Tried reaching my Tesla Solar Roof Advisor. But, after waiting for about 1 hr I just spoke to a different Tesla rep.. Will withhold on names to not impact the reps. All that the rep could reason is, top management decided to make the change. No other details - raw material price increase nor labor costs nor any other costs. He tried reasoning that Tesla can increase prices based on site visit etc., to which I pointed out Site visit was done long back. Nothing that he said truly stuck and was very evident he didnt have a reason for it.

I see people provide justification around Tesla's costs going up or the company realizing the economics now - neither of these stick. Tesla (SolarCity) has been in this business since 2006 and its dumb to think they didnt have a grasp of the economics.

Either Mr. Musk just realized there is money on the table Tesla left out and decided to screw his customers OR someone in his management made this call. Knowing Mr Musk and his erratic behavior, would not surprised if he made this call.

I was told personally over the phone from Tesla Solar Roof team that Elon made and approved the decision, so you are correct. Not sure how much of an influence management was, but blaming it all on "management" is something they keep repeating..

 

[Cshama]

I wasn't personally affected by this price change. But I'll never buy a Tesla car as a result. I don't deal with liars and cheats.

I am sure another manufacturer will step up eventually with a decent electric car.

 

[Fred42]

I wasn't personally affected by this price change. But I'll never buy a Tesla car as a result. I don't deal with liars and cheats.

I am sure another manufacturer will step up eventually with a decent electric car.

Car dealers have been lying and cheating people on sales and repairs forever. It's not something Tesla came up with.

 

[WaitingForRoof]

I wasn't personally affected by this price change. But I'll never buy a Tesla car as a result. I don't deal with liars and cheats.

I am sure another manufacturer will step up eventually with a decent electric car.

I was heavily debating on buying a Tesla once I had a solar roof. The price difference between new contract can literally buy me one

I'm going to look at other EV's first now even if they make the best ones..

 

[Cshama]

Car dealers have been lying and cheating people on sales and repairs forever. It's not something Tesla came up with.

Very true. But I won't work with ones that try to stiff me. Why would I? There are actually plenty of honest car dealers from my experience.

I'm getting solar panels installed tomorrow and I'm excited about it. But in all reality it's not going to change my life and if the company I bought them from acted dishonestly with me I would cancel my contract in a second. Who needs that crap in their life?

 

[VaNick]

Lets not let a little issue of a contract signed get in the way of emotion.

They don't honor it, so why should we...

 

[Jimmy209]

Another victim here. Am new to the forum. Similar to others, my price increased by $20K - all of it to the solar tiles. We live in the Bay Area. Our contract was signed, permits done and scheduling was pending.
Tried reaching my Tesla Solar Roof Advisor. But, after waiting for about 1 hr I just spoke to a different Tesla rep.. Will withhold on names to not impact the reps. All that the rep could reason is, top management decided to make the change. No other details - raw material price increase nor labor costs nor any other costs. He tried reasoning that Tesla can increase prices based on site visit etc., to which I pointed out Site visit was done long back. Nothing that he said truly stuck and was very evident he didnt have a reason for it.

I see people provide justification around Tesla's costs going up or the company realizing the economics now - neither of these stick. Tesla (SolarCity) has been in this business since 2006 and its dumb to think they didnt have a grasp of the economics.

Either Mr. Musk just realized there is money on the table Tesla left out and decided to screw his customers OR someone in his management made this call. Knowing Mr Musk and his erratic behavior, would not surprised if he made this call.

I had the exact same conversation, I was expecting the rep to say because of the rise in cost of building materials thus we have to raise the price, No that was not the cause, as per the rep it was due to the higher ups making the call.

Tesla should have adjusted all their pricing to future projects and not adjust the already agreed upon contracts. That's like buying a vehicle at a dealership and after 2 weeks the dealer calls you back to sign a new contract stating the price will increase due to unforeseen.... market change, software malfunction, material cost, low production of components.....ect ect. Its bad all the way around.

 

[h2ofun]

I wasn't personally affected by this price change. But I'll never buy a Tesla car as a result. I don't deal with liars and cheats.

I am sure another manufacturer will step up eventually with a decent electric car.

I assume the person who bought the car you were considering will say thanks.

I had the exact same conversation, I was expecting the rep to say because of the rise in cost of building materials thus we have to raise the price, No that was not the cause, as per the rep it was due to the higher ups making the call.

Tesla should have adjusted all their pricing to future projects and not adjust the already agreed upon contracts. That's like buying a vehicle at a dealership and after 2 weeks the dealer calls you back to sign a new contract stating the price will increase due to unforeseen.... market change, software malfunction, material cost, low production of components.....ect ect. Its bad all the way around.

Just depends on what shoes you are in. My contractor had some large remodels with signed contracts. But he had to go back to the customers and say because of the increase on material and labor costs, he either had to raise the price or not do the project. He said he cannot do something with zero profit. Just because its a large corporation, why should it be any different?