Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

SolarCity (SCTY)

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Status
Not open for further replies.
SolarCity Launches GridLogic, A Global Microgrid Service
We need to discuss the implications of SolarCity and Tesla getting into the microgrid industry. This could take SolarCity deeply global. This also could set infrastructure in place for selling EVs in places where utility grids are substandard or nonexistant. This could be huge.

Interesting thought. I think the solar-battery microgrid business would be a viable solution for many towns and villages in Sub-Saharan Africa. There's a lot of countries with disastrous grid and power plant infrastructure.

Do you have information that SolarCity is willing to go global?
 
Interesting thought. I think the solar-battery microgrid business would be a viable solution for many towns and villages in Sub-Saharan Africa. There's a lot of countries with disastrous grid and power plant infrastructure.

Do you have information that SolarCity is willing to go global?

No word yet. They do have an NPO that is bringing power to communities in underdeveloped countries. While many of this location may not have the economics to pay for such a system, it is an excellent test bed for this technology. So we definitely know that SolarCity is contemplating the potential to leapfrog power grids. It remains to be seen where exactly the best commercial opportunities will emerge. The global market for this is vast. India has the highest growth rate for power consumption and MENA follows close behind India.

Another thing to consider is that SolarCity has been doubling it's business annually for a while just operating in a few states. To maintain that pace of growth, they will need to expand their footprint. Georgia should open up soon, but over the next 5 years they really do need to go international. GridLogic could take them virtually anywhere.

Let's keep our ears open for announcements.
 
Anyone want to speculate about why no one is discussing the developments at Solar City? The flat activity in this thread is representative of the movement in the stock :confused:
I don't know. I think GridLogic is a really big deal for both SolarCity and Tesla, but few seem even remotely curious.

How about this? U.S. Energy Storage Market Could Triple This Year - NASDAQ.com

This group anticipates stationary growing 67% in MW per year over the next 5 years. This only factors in a $/W reduction of only 9% with just 800 MW @ $1.875/W in 2019. So this view seems ignore the contribution of the Gigafactory which could be as much as 15,000 MWh or 7500 MW power @ $0.50/W or $250/kWh, excluding installation and siting, which could be borne by ratepayers installing behind-the-meter. This puts Tesla storage potentially cheaper than a new NG plant at $0.90 to $1.80 per W. Thus, Tesla could be a really cost competitive source of peak capacity. So by 2019 Tesla could totally rock this market.

But nobody's really interested in that.
 
I don't know. I think GridLogic is a really big deal for both SolarCity and Tesla, but few seem even remotely curious.

How about this? U.S. Energy Storage Market Could Triple This Year - NASDAQ.com

This group anticipates stationary growing 67% in MW per year over the next 5 years. This only factors in a $/W reduction of only 9% with just 800 MW @ $1.875/W in 2019. So this view seems ignore the contribution of the Gigafactory which could be as much as 15,000 MWh or 7500 MW power @ $0.50/W or $250/kWh, excluding installation and siting, which could be borne by ratepayers installing behind-the-meter. This puts Tesla storage potentially cheaper than a new NG plant at $0.90 to $1.80 per W. Thus, Tesla could be a really cost competitive source of peak capacity. So by 2019 Tesla could totally rock this market.

But nobody's really interested in that.

jhm, I am very interested in your calculations and insightful future projections. Thank you for posting.

Perhaps this post could get more attention if it were placed in gigafactory thread or perhaps a new thread on energy storage potential. That would be great.

Most people here are Tesla investors, and only some have an interest in Solar City.

I had an investment in SCTY in the initial stages and got out of it after few months, after doubling my investment. I got out because I thought that SCTY operates in very crowded space, plenty of competition, without clear competitive advantage. The only differentiation that SCTY has is its business model that involves financing, which I like, but that may not be enough to separate it from the pack. I will be happy to be corrected.

Back to your great post on energy storage potential, I think that if the value is unlocked as you project, TSLA shareholders are likely to be the main beneficiaries as TSLA controls energy storage, not SCTY. Hence, your post did not get its deserved attention in this thread.
 
Last edited:
It's a bit unclear where a discussion of GridLogic should belong. It is a new microgrid as a service from SolarCity, but at heart the energy storage and management devices are from Tesla. So any Tesla investor interested in the stationary storage market needs to pay attention to both SolarCity and GridLogic.

What sets SolarCity apart is their market dominance strategy. They are by far the largest solar installer in the US. They have put a lot of resources into minimizing the total cost of installation, and if I recall correctly they've driven the down to $2.86/Wp, with installation accounting for $2.09, making rooftop installations nearly competive with utility scale installations about $2/Wp.

Now here's what I find so interesting about GridLogic. They are developing a nearly plug and play, intelligent network approach to rolling out interconnectable microgrids AT A COST COMPETITIVE WITH UTILITY SCALE GRIDS. So these microgrids can be rapidly deployed at below utility cost and scaled up and interconnected as needed. Central to these GridLogic nodes are the intelligent storage devices that not only store energy but perform intelligent power management. I figure Tesla can sell this as low as $0.50/W and still make a 30% gross margin. But even at $1/W for storage and load management this is competitive with gas/coal/oil generators in the $1.8/W range and $0.9/W for combined cycle natural gas. Here we are only looking at the cost of capacity, not the cost of energy/fuel. As a source of both capacity requiring not fuel, solar comes in at $1.9/W and wind at $1.5/W. So GridLogic can integrate cheap renewable energy with fossil fuel generators for backup minimizing both the capacity of back up deneration needed and the amount of fuel used. Since this is a microgrid, large transmission lines are not required, but may be integrated if available. Users within the microgrid can each have meters and gateways to measure the amount of energy consumed and generated. GridLogic suppoers billing and reporting functions. Individual users may connect whatever energy storage and generation assets they may possess. So Teslas Home Grid Storage device will be plug-and-play within GridLogic. With such a device the end user can support power needs in excess of the capacity of powerlines connecting the end user to the microgrid. That is, the Home Grid device can charge at a daily average rate, say 3kW, but discharge when needed at much higher rate for peak demand, say 10kW to rapidly charge an EV. Reliability is also enhanced as storage is distributed across the microgrid. So the infrastructure needed to distribute power can be kept to minimum, it is scaled to daily energy transmission needs and not instantaneous peak power demand needs. So if the cost of generation is competive with utilities, the cost of storage and load management is lower than utilities, and the cost of distibution capacity is smaller than utilities, then the whole system (capacity, energy and reliability) is cheaper than a utility.

Just as SolarCity has worked to squeeze out and finance the total cost of rooftop installation, it can squeeze out and finance the cost of expanding power grids with intelligent and efficient microgrids. In places like India and MENA, GridLogic could expand at much faster and cheaper rates than traditional utilities. Think of this like how cell phone networks have leapfrogged past traditional landline telephone companies in remote and underdeveloped regions. Microgrids can thrive where for over a hundred years centralized utilities have found it uneconomical to provide even basic service. The growth of demand for power is highest in India and the Middle East is second highest. SolarCity has the opportunity to deploy new utility access faster and cheaper than any player expanding the grid.
 
Last edited:
Sounds great. Anywhere there's not already existing power infrastructure can simply skip installing power lines from the main grid and go with this micro grid, which is cheaper anyway and cleaner. Distributed generation.

And in places where power lines already exist we are seeing friction (Arizona most recently) where the incumbent doesn't like distributed generation happening on roofs.

Years ago people would go solar because green even given the high cost. Now the cost is cheaper than fossil fuels, and it's still green, with really no downsides (aesthetics?) especially with storage mixed in, have we reached the tipping point? SCTY thinks so, hence their own gigafactory being built in Buffalo for panel production.
 
The GridLogic vision (or, more generally, micro-grids built on solar) would be great for new housing subdivisions in AZ and SoCal. Require that each new house have at least x kW of panels, and design the homes to incorporate those gracefully and in a variety of orientations to extend the solar generation as long as possible. Don't even bother interconnecting to the electric utility, so they have no control over anything. Install a shared storage & backup generators (high-efficiency NG fuel cells or Sterling engines), and you're done.

This is easier to do on new construction, so you don't have to negotiate with the utility about ownership of the lines between the houses.
 
Maintenance of these micro grid power lines and backup generators would be a great biz for the incumbents to pivot into...

Here's the beauty of SolarCity's business model. They are pursuing microgrid-as-a-service. They design, install, finance and maintain the system. This is just the logical extention of their solar financing model. Potentially all components of the microgrid could be leased from SolarCity, but any owned components could also integrate into the microgrid. So it gives the end users the ultimate flexibility to arrange financing and ownership to meet their needs.

If you look at the report from the National Bank of Abu Dhabi, you'll see that much of the challenge in meeting their region's growing power gap comes down to financing. And as a bank, NBAD sees this need clearly and wants to cultivate the financial markets to support this endeavour. I happen to view SolarCity primarily as a finance company. This is their genius. For a long time, centralized utilities have enjoyed financing advantages over smaller more decentralized players. So the big enabler for distributed power generation and sharing is leveling the financial playing field. Meanwhile there is a fossil fuel asset bubble looming, as utility investors start to wake up to the reality that many of their energy assets are overvalued due to obsolescence in the face of solar, wind and battery technologies, it will become increasingly difficult for utilities to get the kind of financing they are accustomed to. It is becoming increasingly difficult to finance a new coal plant today, for example, because high integration of renewables put utilization assumptions into serious doubt. That is, banks and the financial market just can't be sure a new coal plant will be able to compete and pay for itself over the next 40 years. So traditional utilities will be met with increasing skepticism from the financial market, while players like SolarCity will find it easier to bundle distributed energy assets and PPAs into asset backed securities and sell them on the bond markets. So the financial playing field is becoming level and may even tilt in favor of distributed power. Definitely SolarCity knows how to play this game.
 
I thought that SCTY operates in very crowded space, plenty of competition, without clear competitive advantage. The only differentiation that SCTY has is its business model that involves financing, which I like, but that may not be enough to separate it from the pack. I will be happy to be corrected.

That's a very common misconception, popularized by a few strong willed folk, who don't write much here anymore. These folks have been saying that since the beginning (or since the IPO).

SCTY market share increased from 6% in 2009 to 17% in 2012(IPO time) to 39% in 3Q14.

This is "market share" growth.

Per latest available data, their residential installations exceeded the next 70 competitors’ combined!

See the latest presentation at SolarCity - Events Presentations

If solarcity didn't have a competitive advantage why is it's market share growing??

It's very simple, their economies of scale is helping them out at every level from financing to operations.

This will continue to play in their favor for a long time into the future.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.