Sold my Model S after 5.5 years...moving on

[RIP1]

I've loved my S85, but when Tesla with no explanation or notice capped my supercharging speed to less than half the former speed with a software update almost a year ago as has been done to most if not all older cars. that was it for me. My car is now a city car. Long trips are not practical when it takes 90+ minutes to supercharge. My car only had 40k miles on it when this was done.

You can peruse the chargegate threads, all 500+ pages of them, for the reason why Tesla is doing this but the bottom line is that it's to avoid battery failures during the warranty period. The equivalent would be for GM to disable 4 cylinders in your Corvette via an unannounced software update to reduce engine failures under warranty.

I've loved my Tesla and hope to be back someday when Tesla can guarantee reasonable charge rates for the life of the battery pack. Car is sold and new car is in the garage. Not going to get into what I got because I don't want to turn this thread into a Tesla superfan hatefest but it's not an EV.

I've loved my S85, but when Tesla with no explanation or notice capped my supercharging speed to less than half the former speed with a software update almost a year ago as has been done to most if not all older cars. that was it for me. My car is now a city car. Long trips are not practical when it takes 90+ minutes to supercharge. My car only had 40k miles on it when this was done.

You can peruse the chargegate threads, all 500+ pages of them, for the reason why Tesla is doing this but the bottom line is that it's to avoid battery failures during the warranty period. The equivalent would be for GM to disable 4 cylinders in your Corvette via an unannounced software update to reduce engine failures under warranty.

I've loved my Tesla and hope to be back someday when Tesla can guarantee reasonable charge rates for the life of the battery pack. Car is sold and new car is in the garage. Not going to get into what I got because I don't want to turn this thread into a Tesla superfan hatefest but it's not an EV.

I have read two thinks that have undermined my fail in tesla you post above and a previous post that they removed the self drive paid option on resale did they do that to you too ?

 

[Big Toys]

I saw it but can't reply to it. Thread is locked. Anyway, good discussion. I think I said enough. Just an FYI since you asked:

To create quotes manually, just enclose the message with the word 'quote' like this:

View attachment 531489

Oh, I thought there was an easier way than to do it manually. Thanks for the civil discussion.

 

[jmgray22]

I've loved my S85, but when Tesla with no explanation or notice capped my supercharging speed to less than half the former speed with a software update almost a year ago as has been done to most if not all older cars. that was it for me. My car is now a city car. Long trips are not practical when it takes 90+ minutes to supercharge. My car only had 40k miles on it when this was done.

You can peruse the chargegate threads, all 500+ pages of them, for the reason why Tesla is doing this but the bottom line is that it's to avoid battery failures during the warranty period. The equivalent would be for GM to disable 4 cylinders in your Corvette via an unannounced software update to reduce engine failures under warranty.

I've loved my Tesla and hope to be back someday when Tesla can guarantee reasonable charge rates for the life of the battery pack. Car is sold and new car is in the garage. Not going to get into what I got because I don't want to turn this thread into a Tesla superfan hatefest but it's not an EV.

I’m new to the scene. However, I have done extensive research before I jumped in. I agree that Tesla forcing people into battery protection by reducing a commodity is bold and ridiculous. Definitely a real bad PR move.

However, they do have suggested guidelines to improve the life and reliability of the batteries. Within these is the recommendation to essentially minimize supercharging. This is for a 2020 model 3 as well. So, from that standpoint I can see why they want to protect the older generations with the older technology.

Another point here is that when you buy ANY new complex technology there are bound to be unforeseen issues whether short or long term (this goes for any new ICE car too btw). By purchasing an early model Tesla I imagine someone as educated and meticulous as an eye surgeon would have already weighed this concern and accepted any potential issues that come along with early adoption. This does not excuse the unannounced and unexplained nature of the adjustment by Tesla.

It’s unfortunate that something like this can completely overshadow all the other amazing benefits of owning a Tesla for you. I would also agree that this may not even had much of an impact on your overall lifestyle with the car unless you primarily used your car for long trips...long trips that require rapid charging as well by the sounds of it.

 

[john5520]

Oh, I thought there was an easier way than to do it manually. Thanks for the civil discussion.

Select the text with the left mouse button and when you let go, you should see a dialogue box with 'quote' | 'reply'. Selecting either will enclose the selected text in the same quote tags. Doing this way should be quicker. Doing it manually is just a habit I stuck with from years of browsing forums.

 

[whitex]

Another point here is that when you buy ANY new complex technology there are bound to be unforeseen issues whether short or long term (this goes for any new ICE car too btw). By purchasing an early model Tesla I imagine someone as educated and meticulous as an eye surgeon would have already weighed this concern and accepted any potential issues that come along with early adoption.

If you buy an early adopter car and the pain peels off in one winter, you'll say "I knew what I was signing up one buying an early adopter car, I'll just spend another $100K and buy a new one, they probably figured out how to paint them better by now"? Early adopter products may have more problems than older ones, but it doesn't absolve the company from their responsibilities to fix those problems.

 

[David_Cary]

Well, no. Paint has been around a long time. But Tesla's paint shop hasn't. Certainly doesn't make those defects equivalent.
Is this a "logical fallacy"?

Batteries that rapid charge that drive EV's 300 miles have been around a lot less time than paint. My paint is fine - I am guessing yours is not?

I am honestly curious why people who are furious at Tesla would continue to hang out on Tesla forums. It seems unhealthy to the soul. Perhaps trying to tarnish the brand as a way of revenge? Or some huge tesla fan who is trying to get them back on track....?

 

[whitex]

Well, no. Paint has been around a long time. But Tesla's paint shop hasn't. Certainly doesn't make those defects equivalent.
Is this a "logical fallacy"?

Batteries that rapid charge that drive EV's 300 miles have been around a lot less time than paint. My paint is fine - I am guessing yours is not?

Ok, just so that we get on the same page, Tesla invented EV's, so anything that goes wrong with motor, batteries or drivetrain they get a pass on because "early adopter" right? Did they invent computers, tablets, and such? Do they get an early adopter pass from you on not being able to design an MCU which doesn't die in 5 years? How about LCD screens, do they get an early adopter pass from you on yellowing lcd screens? How about servicing cars, keeping spare parts in supply chains so they are available, providing loaners - did they invent all this too, so being they are an early adopter in providing loaner cars according to you? The fact that they sold me a 691hp car, telling me how they will enable it via OTA update, only to finally admit that my car would need 50% power boost to reach it and give me a lame excuse that if my motor was in a different car with a better battery and better inverter, it would in fact generate 691hp, just not in the car they sold me. They took me for $25K on that one, plus another $5K for ludicrous upgrade so that I would get at least some value out of the initial $25K I put to get this advertised power which never came. At least with things like FSD they had clear text saying that your car may turn to dust before you get FSD (the pre-2019 one, not the current neutered version which consists mostly of features previously part of EAP) so people paying for it know what they are getting into (lottery odds at best).

I am honestly curious why people who are furious at Tesla would continue to hang out on Tesla forums. It seems unhealthy to the soul. Perhaps trying to tarnish the brand as a way of revenge? Or some huge tesla fan who is trying to get them back on track....?

The main reason for me to hang out here is because I still have Tesla cars, and this is the only place to find out about any recalls, fubr'ed updates, the fact that lowered range is because of Tesla intentional crippling as opposed to thinking you car broke, or other "surprises" Tesla is deploying over the air - basically, if you own a Tesla you need to be here to keep up on stuff you need to know about your car which is changing every OTA update. Even things like the availability of parts of fixes, Tesla doesn't communicate, you can only find out from other who got the fix and shared here. Sometimes unless you show the service center the service bulletin explaining how something can be fixed, they will send you on your way saying "it's normal" or "just wait for new update, it will fix it, if not that one, the next one after that for sure". Sadly, sometimes you are the unlucky one to get the update first and you get to warn others, like when Tesla in their "wisdom" decided in one of the firmwares to automatically unfold mirrors. My wife, having driven the car for a year, didn't know about the surprise feature, so when she went to a place where she went many times before, parked the car close to a wall, got into the car, folded the mirrors as she did many times before, she didn't realize (as she was looking backwards while reversing) that the car decided to unfold the mirrors on its own breaking one of them off on a concrete parking lot column - that was a $600 OTA upgrade btw as Tesla did not cover this one. This is why owners need read forums like this to be forewarned. Btw, Tesla changes that in the very next version to only unfold above some higher speed, like 10 or 20mph.
Another (lesser) reason is warning others how Tesla operates. I used to tell everyone who'd listen they should buy a Tesla if they can afford one (hey, I bought 4 Model S myself). Today I warn people, try to balance out the messages I put out there before.

Last reason, how else am I going to find out if Tesla gets their act together so I can start buying them again? I don't trust the Elon hyped media.

 

[CeSinge]

I'm close to the same stage as the OP. I've an end of 2015 85D with about 115000km/75000mi. I charge responsibly, usually to about 240km (160mi) because I don't need more a for normal day. I Supercharge almost only when I travel: I liked to travel around in Europe and the Model S is a fantastic car for that! I gradually discovered most of the batterygate issues, but didn't ask an SC as I traveled less the last year. During the new year holiday, I traveled to spain (total about 5000km/3300mi), and became gradually upset each time I was shown 40m charging time, only to see when I came back to the car that I had to wait for another 15m if not more. I was also upset because of the very slow charging when I tried to charge full: it takes substantially more time than before - to a point where it's really too long.

I understand that Tesla's cars are new technology, that things may fail, that there may be issues of all kinds - in fact I didn't have many issues altogether. I can accept it: I'm a gadget freak and have some patience from that.

What I do not accept is the way they did it. Behind everyone's back, with no notification let alone apology whatsoever. That means to me that Tesla is now run by unscrupulous people who do not care about what their customers think.

Had they sent me an at least email to explain the situation, the risks, I wouldn't have been happy, but I'd accept it. I do not accept dishonest people who take back things just because it suits them and they can. If my plan was to buy another Model S without thinking somewhere end of this year, the result is that at the very least I will reevaluate the offerings of other brands.

 

[EVortex]

If Tesla’s primary concern is a large financial hit on battery warranty replacements, why not be very transparent about the things that cause excessive battery degradation and then provide choices to the consumer on how to address it? For example, Tesla could provide a configurable setting in the driving controls to allow the car owner to select the maximum performance and charging speeds and levels they want after the warranty expires, or during the warranty in exchange for reduced warranty period and mileage. Providing transparent information and consumer choices while minimizing warranty liability for abused batteries could be a viable solution. It’s too late now for some with damaged batteries, but starting this new approach immediately could be helpful to restore performance and charging for those willing to accept more degradation liability and would be helpful for owners of newer cars to maintain their batteries and warranty levels if they choose to do so. For those with degraded batteries out of warranty, Tesla could increase battery production, efficiencies, and innovation to significantly reduce the cost of replacements. Good for Tesla, good for consumers.

 

[tccartier]

I'm close to the same stage as the OP. I've an end of 2015 85D with about 115000km/75000mi. I charge responsibly, usually to about 240km (160mi) because I don't need more a for normal day. I Supercharge almost only when I travel: I liked to travel around in Europe and the Model S is a fantastic car for that! I gradually discovered most of the batterygate issues, but didn't ask an SC as I traveled less the last year. During the new year holiday, I traveled to spain (total about 5000km/3300mi), and became gradually upset each time I was shown 40m charging time, only to see when I came back to the car that I had to wait for another 15m if not more. I was also upset because of the very slow charging when I tried to charge full: it takes substantially more time than before - to a point where it's really too long.

I understand that Tesla's cars are new technology, that things may fail, that there may be issues of all kinds - in fact I didn't have many issues altogether. I can accept it: I'm a gadget freak and have some patience from that.

What I do not accept is the way they did it. Behind everyone's back, with no notification let alone apology whatsoever. That means to me that Tesla is now run by unscrupulous people who do not care about what their customers think.

Had they sent me an at least email to explain the situation, the risks, I wouldn't have been happy, but I'd accept it. I do not accept dishonest people who take back things just because it suits them and they can. If my plan was to buy another Model S without thinking somewhere end of this year, the result is that at the very least I will reevaluate the offerings of other brands.

Well that's great but depending upon geographic location normal travel for me will generally involve supercharging if I want to reach the next city or town living in flyover country is different than living in a large metropolis. Although understandably our numbers are not as significant therefore you could argue that it doesn't matter because so few of us are affected. It doesn't look like that from my side when my car is no longer able to do things that I used to be able to do easily. It makes one day turnarounds to get to Phoenix or Tucson and all day affair. When baking in the additional charging times that I didn't used to need. So for some of us our cars are a lot less useful than they used to be and for some of us supercharging is really necessary to make the car functional.

 

[Big Toys]

Select the text with the left mouse button and when you let go, you should see a dialogue box with 'quote' | 'reply'. Selecting either will enclose the selected text in the same quote tags. Doing this way should be quicker. Doing it manually is just a habit I stuck with from years of browsing forums.

Yes, that's the way I've always done it. But that's a lot work work with many points and quotes. I thought there was a better, more tech-advance Tesla way. Again, thanks for the discussion. I miss discussions where the parties can disagree and still be civil.

 

[whitex]

If Tesla’s primary concern is a large financial hit on battery warranty replacements, why not be very transparent about the things that cause excessive battery degradation and then provide choices to the consumer on how to address it? For example, Tesla could provide a configurable setting in the driving controls to allow the car owner to select the maximum performance and charging speeds and levels they want after the warranty expires, or during the warranty in exchange for reduced warranty period and mileage. Providing transparent information and consumer choices while minimizing warranty liability for abused batteries could be a viable solution. It’s too late now for some with damaged batteries, but starting this new approach immediately could be helpful to restore performance and charging for those willing to accept more degradation liability and would be helpful for owners of newer cars to maintain their batteries and warranty levels if they choose to do so. For those with degraded batteries out of warranty, Tesla could increase battery production, efficiencies, and innovation to significantly reduce the cost of replacements. Good for Tesla, good for consumers.

Your suggested approach is a little naive and completely impractical. The devil is always in the details. For example:

1. You cannot go to existing owners and say "you warranty will be shortened if you continue to use all the features we sold you, but you have an option to let us limit your charging, performance, range, or maybe even how many times a day you drive, in exchange for keeping the warranty as it was sold to you". That would be a slam dunk class action lawsuit against Tesla.
2. Ok, one option is doing it just for new cars - that would be a nightmare too. Tesla would need to develop some "warranty loss meter" (counting in days) which would advance depending on how much you "wear" your car (supercharge fast, launch, mash the accelerator too fast, etc). That meter would have to be tamper-proof like the odometer, so that if you're selling the car the next owner knows how limited the warranty is. You'd now have to disclose your wear meter together with odometer.
3. A spin on option #2 above, just include the wear in the odometer - after all the odometer was meant to be a measure of car wear. Make the odometer run with a multiplier if you accelerate hard, say each mile counts as 2 miles if odometer is >50%, 10 miles then accelerator >90%, etc. If you supercharge fast, your odometer keeps advancing even though your car is stationary. Etc, etc. This approach would likely fail short term as odometers are regulated by laws and changing those is very slow.
4. Ok, more practical option, make this limitation a one time option at production time only. Call it the "reliability package" - if you choose this, your car's range gets limited, your charging gets limited, on day the car leaves the factory and it can never be changed. You do get a "reliability badge" to go with it so you can sell it as such. Would such a car with "reliability package" cost more or less? It has lower range, charging, etc so less value to customer, but also gives Tesla less data (customer no longer a guinea pig) so Tesla would want more money to offset the customer refusal to be a tester. So how do you price this?
5. A flip spin on option above - all cars come limited, but you allow people to choose "experimental package" option at the factory which keeps all the bleeding edge features, but customer agrees that Tesla may limit any of the features and/or warranty coverage, should they become too expensive for Tesla, but they will be fully open and transparent about it since customers choosing that option agreed Tesla can limit anything at any time without compensation - you basically agree to pay to drive an experimental test car for Tesla. If a screen yellows after 3 months, Tesla says "too many screens went yellow, we are now not covering this for you", they can openly tell you this since you chose the experimental package and therefore have no legal leg to stand on - driving with a yellow screen, or disabled launch mode, or reduced acceleration of charging rates (more than if you chose to limit at production time as there is damage now), is the price you pay for having a car with bleeding edge tech enabled when you first got it.
6. An alternative on option #5, sell a car without any warranty whatsoever, or say only 7 days. Such car gets all the latest features (even ones Tesla hasn't tested yet), allows max acceleration and max charging, but you're going to pay for whatever needs fixing yourself. You'd be getting OTA every night with the latest nightly build of Tesla software! Such car would be the fastest, badest, and also the cheapest trim you could buy!

 

[EVortex]

Your suggested approach is a little naive and completely impractical. The devil is always in the details. For example:

1. You cannot go to existing owners and say "you warranty will be shortened if you continue to use all the features we sold you, but you have an option to let us limit your charging, performance, range, or maybe even how many times a day you drive, in exchange for keeping the warranty as it was sold to you". That would be a slam dunk class action lawsuit against Tesla.
2. Ok, one option is doing it just for new cars - that would be a nightmare too. Tesla would need to develop some "warranty loss meter" (counting in days) which would advance depending on how much you "wear" your car (supercharge fast, launch, mash the accelerator too fast, etc). That meter would have to be tamper-proof like the odometer, so that if you're selling the car the next owner knows how limited the warranty is. You'd now have to disclose your wear meter together with odometer.
3. A spin on option #2 above, just include the wear in the odometer - after all the odometer was meant to be a measure of car wear. Make the odometer run with a multiplier if you accelerate hard, say each mile counts as 2 miles if odometer is >50%, 10 miles then accelerator >90%, etc. If you supercharge fast, your odometer keeps advancing even though your car is stationary. Etc, etc. This approach would likely fail short term as odometers are regulated by laws and changing those is very slow.
4. Ok, more practical option, make this limitation a one time option at production time only. Call it the "reliability package" - if you choose this, your car's range gets limited, your charging gets limited, on day the car leaves the factory and it can never be changed. You do get a "reliability badge" to go with it so you can sell it as such. Would such a car with "reliability package" cost more or less? It has lower range, charging, etc so less value to customer, but also gives Tesla less data (customer no longer a guinea pig) so Tesla would want more money to offset the customer refusal to be a tester. So how do you price this?
5. A flip spin on option above - all cars come limited, but you allow people to choose "experimental package" option at the factory which keeps all the bleeding edge features, but customer agrees that Tesla may limit any of the features and/or warranty coverage, should they become too expensive for Tesla, but they will be fully open and transparent about it since customers choosing that option agreed Tesla can limit anything at any time without compensation - you basically agree to pay to drive an experimental test car for Tesla. If a screen yellows after 3 months, Tesla says "too many screens went yellow, we are now not covering this for you", they can openly tell you this since you chose the experimental package and therefore have no legal leg to stand on - driving with a yellow screen, or disabled launch mode, or reduced acceleration of charging rates (more than if you chose to limit at production time as there is damage now), is the price you pay for having a car with bleeding edge tech enabled when you first got it.
6. An alternative on option #5, sell a car without any warranty whatsoever, or say only 7 days. Such car gets all the latest features (even ones Tesla hasn't tested yet), allows max acceleration and max charging, but you're going to pay for whatever needs fixing yourself. You'd be getting OTA every night with the latest nightly build of Tesla software! Such car would be the fastest, badest, and also the cheapest trim you could buy!

I like your ideas. I think the notion of transparency, options, and consumer choices has merit. For the existing customers that have suffered damage, warranties should still be honored as per the original purchase contract. After the warranty expires, any restrictions from various options mentioned above should be removed if the consumer desires since Tesla has no further liability at that point.

 

[whitex]

I like your ideas. I think the notion of transparency, options, and consumer choices has merit. For the existing customers that have suffered damage, warranties should still be honored as per the original purchase contract. After the warranty expires, any restrictions from various options mentioned above should be removed if the consumer desires since Tesla has no further liability at that point.

Still there is the problem of being a practical solution. Should the insurance company be notified that Tesla removed battery SoC limiting and the owner it taking on the risk of the catching on fire? Should the owner inform other people wherever they part the car? Say the car is in a condo garage and it catches on fire because the owner is charging to a higher SoC than would have been capped by Tesla, would it be the owner of the car who is now liable for the entire damage, and will their insurance cover it if they didn't tell the insurance that they are gambling by charging above what Tesla considers safe (even if that level used to be considered safe in the past)? Remember that the range limiting came shortly after cars actually did catch on fire, and while Tesla did not officially directly admit this, those caps were most likely safety related (plus limiting liability is that fire destroys homes, and indirectly warranty related since I assume if a battery self ignites without external damage, the 8 year warranty should cover it).

The point I was trying to make earlier, that even though I can come up with a number of options, none of them are practical solutions as you dig into the details.

The most practical solution is what the other guys like Porsche or Audi are doing - limit all cars, be ultra conservative from the get-go. But that way of thinking is not compatible with Elon, who wouldn't be able to stand selling a 0-60 in 3 seconds car knowing that car could go 0-60 in 2.5 seconds, even if there was a good chance such acceleration would damage the battery a tiny bit at a time. Same with range, Elon wants to have the range number as high as possible so he can claim longest range car, even if actually using that range will result in you having less range a year or two later and having to charge slower. Elon's hype marketing method always relies on what a brand new car out of the factory can do on day 0, regardless of what happens on day 300, or vaporware dreams of what it might be able to do one day (often never happens for the cars he sells the dream on, but as long as day 0 brand new cars can do it he considers it delivered).

 

[JRP3]

My guess is Elon/Tesla are counting on technology to solve the problem. If higher energy density, higher C rate, longer cycle life chemistry is available, which I think is close, if not already here, that solves everything. All the capping/throttling is a stopgap to buy time.

 

[EVortex]

Still there is the problem of being a practical solution. Should the insurance company be notified that Tesla removed battery SoC limiting and the owner it taking on the risk of the catching on fire? Should the owner inform other people wherever they part the car? Say the car is in a condo garage and it catches on fire because the owner is charging to a higher SoC than would have been capped by Tesla, would it be the owner of the car who is now liable for the entire damage, and will their insurance cover it if they didn't tell the insurance that they are gambling by charging above what Tesla considers safe (even if that level used to be considered safe in the past)? Remember that the range limiting came shortly after cars actually did catch on fire, and while Tesla did not officially directly admit this, those caps were most likely safety related (plus limiting liability is that fire destroys homes, and indirectly warranty related since I assume if a battery self ignites without external damage, the 8 year warranty should cover it).

The point I was trying to make earlier, that even though I can come up with a number of options, none of them are practical solutions as you dig into the details.

The most practical solution is what the other guys like Porsche or Audi are doing - limit all cars, be ultra conservative from the get-go. But that way of thinking is not compatible with Elon, who wouldn't be able to stand selling a 0-60 in 3 seconds car knowing that car could go 0-60 in 2.5 seconds, even if there was a good chance such acceleration would damage the battery a tiny bit at a time. Same with range, Elon wants to have the range number as high as possible so he can claim longest range car, even if actually using that range will result in you having less range a year or two later and having to charge slower. Elon's hype marketing method always relies on what a brand new car out of the factory can do on day 0, regardless of what happens on day 300, or vaporware dreams of what it might be able to do one day (often never happens for the cars he sells the dream on, but as long as day 0 brand new cars can do it he considers it delivered).

I get your point. Choice comes with responsibility and willingness to accept resulting liability. If the car is built to perform to a certain specification and a consumer desires to take full advantage knowing the risks and liabilities, I have no problem with it, but that’s just my opinion (kind of like the Ludicrous+ warning). I like the freedom of making up my own mind and having choices. It seems we are losing freedom of choice in many aspects of our lives and that is disappointing. A lot of this thread resulted in someone trying to force their opinion on others or a manufacturer forcing restrictions on a product previous sold to a consumer. You are right that it is complicated and there may not be a practical solution since we are already years into it, but the conversation is good and I appreciate your constructive responses and respectfulness.

 

[whitex]

I get your point. Choice comes with responsibility and willingness to accept resulting liability. If the car is built to perform to a certain specification and a consumer desires to take full advantage knowing the risks and liabilities, I have no problem with it, but that’s just my opinion (kind of like the Ludicrous+ warning). I like the freedom of making up my own mind and having choices. It seems we are losing freedom of choice in many aspects of our lives and that is disappointing.

I think a quote from justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. is appropriate here: "The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins.". To paraphrase, my right to charge the car to dangerous levels or at dangerous rates ends with my neighbor's right to not have his home burned down. Same goes for any public charger owners, or anywhere else you might choose to drive that is not your own private property where your car catching on fire would not affect anyone but you.

 

[EVortex]

I think a quote from justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. is appropriate here: "The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins.". To paraphrase, my right to charge the car to dangerous levels or at dangerous rates ends with my neighbor's right to not have his home burned down. Same goes for any public charger owners, or anywhere else you might choose to drive that is not your own private property where your car catching on fire would not affect anyone but you.

I agree with that. I would expect the upper limits from the manufacturer to be part of their responsibility. It’s tough when they change that limit after the purchase and thus this thread. At some point individual and corporate responsibility must be accepted. If a Tesla can do 163mph, should we restrict it to 65mph or should we follow the speed limit laws and accept the responsibility for harm done when exceeding the limit? And, should Tesla be liable for making a car that can go 163mph? All tough questions. I agree with freedoms to the extent that they don’t infringe on the freedoms of others. Do no harm should also be in the mix along with consequences for violating that part.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Imagine the +95% of Tesla owners will never see this reduction in Supercharging rates.

Those charging at home will never see it.
Those only charging on longer trips will never see it.
Those occasionally supercharging will never see it.
Those who always supercharge, but don't put on lots of miles may never see it.
Those with earlier batteries will see it sooner than those with later editions.

Only those that most always Supercharge and travel long distances may see it.

On the other hand, those that do see Supercharging rates slowed will hate it.

People buying Tesla with intentions to exclusively Supercharge, and demand full charging speeds for the life of the car may be disappointed, and should consider alternative choices..

 

[CeSinge]

Those only charging on longer trips will never see it.
Those occasionally supercharging will never see it.
Those who always supercharge, but don't put on lots of miles may never see it.

I don't really agree with that. Even when traveling, the longer charging times are a real annoyance. What is even more annoying is that Tesla doesn't seem to have adapated the estimated charging times. For a trip of about 1200km/750mi)from Andorra to Brussels about 2 years ago, I planned the whole trip when I left, strictly stopped at the planned SC and charged for the time indicated when I arrived at each SC. That brought me home in Brussels within 15m of the time initially indicated when I left Andorra.

That doesn't work any more: when one arrives at an SC with say 40min left to charge, don't bother going back to your car after 40 minutes: you'll have to wait another 10 or15 until the car is ready for your trip. This issue applies to all three cases you mention. And even those who charge only at home may be affected as their range is reduced: that may seriously impact some also.

As a side note: these days I wonder if they did the same trick to the regenerative braking system: even with a temperature of 20C/68F it's function remains limited for a long, long time (with the yellow dashed line). Maybe I should call an SC, but I'm not even sure they're really open these days.