South vs East/West Orientation

[Dan123]

My municipality in South Florida is denying a permit to install the panels facing south, and instead is conditioning approval on the panels facing north, east, or west.

I wanted to ask if there are people here, preferable in South Florida or South Texas, that have panels facing both south and east/west. I want to get some data points about the drop in efficiency when panels are moved to east/west. Could you share it with me? Also, your roof pitch, if you know it. And a general description of shading conditions.

 

[Ampster]

Go to PV Watts and run some scenarios. Is there any explanation for your municipality making that requirement? Tell us more. Is it a building code issue for firemen access or something else?

 

[Dan123]

Go to PV Watts and run some scenarios. Is there any explanation for your municipality making that requirement? Tell us more. Is it a building code issue for firemen access or something else?

Thank you, I did go to PVWatts, but it is one thing to have calculations, and another to get real data points.

The City prohibits them on aesthetic grounds. They don't like to seem them. They think that it will diminish the values of surrounding properties and alter the look of the city.

 

[wwhitney]

My municipality in South Florida is denying a permit to install the panels facing south, and instead is conditioning approval on the panels facing north, east, or west.

Sounds like a violation of the Florida Solar Rights Act, which says in part:

"Such entity may determine the specific location where solar collectors may be installed on the roof within an orientation to the south or within 45° east or west of due south if such determination does not impair the effective operation of the solar collectors."

See Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

I have no idea what the context of this law is, or whether there might be some way for your municipality to avoid compliance.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Dan123]

Sounds like a violation of the Florida Solar Rights Act, which says in part:

"Such entity may determine the specific location where solar collectors may be installed on the roof within an orientation to the south or within 45° east or west of due south if such determination does not impair the effective operation of the solar collectors."

See Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

I have no idea what the context of this law is, or whether there might be some way for your municipality to avoid compliance.

Cheers, Wayne

So the section you are quoting 163.04(2) applies to HOAs. Municipalities are covered by 163.04(1). They are arguing that because their section doesn't have that 45 degree language, that means that they can require me to move it any way they want.

 

[SSonnentag]

Our panels face 244 degrees, 26 degrees south of due west. Power generation is pretty good. See link in my signature below. Roughly a 33-degree pitch. This is a 12 kW system.

 

[Shygar]

I have a house with panels facing south (7.5kW) and one with panels facing west (6.3kW), both within a few houses of each other. During the summer, my west facing panels actually generate about the same amount of money in credits due to the time of day my panels are optimally positioned with the sun. For my south facing, it's at noon, for west it's around 3 pm. Neighbor's trees at both properties have some sort of effect.

From what I can tell the south facing panels will generate more power overall during the year but due to net metering credits my west facing panels are doing better than I thought they would. See my sigature for PV output for both properties.

 

[Bigtanuki]

So the section you are quoting 163.04(2) applies to HOAs. Municipalities are covered by 163.04(1). They are arguing that because their section doesn't have that 45 degree language, that means that they can require me to move it any way they want.

If you know a lawyer or have access to one for a reasonable price, have them send a letter to the municipality on letterhead stating that the it doesn't mean what they think it means. I've found over the last 5 decades that most bullies flinch when faced with someone else's lawyer. Of course, that hinges on whether your lawyer thinks their interpretation is wrong.

 

[Ampster]

If that doesn't work, you can get some comfort from this thread:
East/West Solar vs South-Facing

 

[nwdiver]

Thank you, I did go to PVWatts, but it is one thing to have calculations, and another to get real data points.

Unless the system you're comparing it to is in ~Miami PV Watts will probably give you a more accurate estimate. The new version is fairly sophisticated. I think it takes typical meteorological conditions into account. So you'll see a regular drop in the evening due to thunderstorms in Miami but not so much in South Texas.... PV Watts actually incorporates this.

 

[Dan123]

If you know a lawyer or have access to one for a reasonable price, have them send a letter to the municipality on letterhead stating that the it doesn't mean what they think it means. I've found over the last 5 decades that most bullies flinch when faced with someone else's lawyer. Of course, that hinges on whether your lawyer thinks their interpretation is wrong.

Yes, but thus municipality is well aware of the issue and of the law, and they chose to ignore it.

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

PVWatts from NREL is spot on with my SE orientation (panels not viewable from street). I modeled filling up the NW roof and the total annual generation is 80%. 20% pitch angle. This surprised me as I was under impression that north facing is to be opposed.

I rather not see solar panels on the facing roof from the street. Think about your home value and pictures from Zillow. City building & construction departments go to great lengths to make the front of the house not look like a box (McMansions) by add roof angles and such architectural features, so typically the front views don't leave large areas for panels. The sides and rear roof get little treatment and therefore more open. Solar energy friendly guidelines probably give cities the ability to say, "we kept 3 sides solar friendly... stop complaining about the front as they are for aesthetic reasons," as cities are trying to satisfy two requirements: renewable energy & architecture.

 

[remlemasi]

I’ve done extensive spreadsheeting with PVWatts data and local utility rates. While you may take a 25-30% hit in actual energy produced (West- vs South-facing), the monetary value hit is only 5-10% if you are on a TOU rate. This is because Peak production on a West-facing panels align with peak pricing, and thus peak crediting.

This does not work with East-facing.

In my opinion, West-facing installations (and anything SW) are nearly as optimal as South-facing as long as you use TOU rates and only charge your EVs at night. East not so much so due to the fog layer that takes all morning to burn off. At least here in California.

 

[Merrill]

I’ve done extensive spreadsheeting with PVWatts data and local utility rates. While you may take a 25-30% hit in actual energy produced (West- vs South-facing), the monetary value hit is only 5-10% if you are on a TOU rate. This is because Peak production on a West-facing panels align with peak pricing, and thus peak crediting.

This does not work with East-facing.

In my opinion, West-facing installations (and anything SW) are nearly as optimal as South-facing as long as you use TOU rates and only charge your EVs at night. East not so much so due to the fog layer that takes all morning to burn off. At least here in California.

I agree my system is SW and in the summer generates the most electricity in the afternoon and that gives me credit due to the tou pricing. Even though my 6kW system does not pay for 100% of my bill due to the credits it takes care of 80% and that is even though the electricity produced is around 40%.