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Speed of DC 50kW CCS chargers

simonh

Member
Sep 21, 2020
61
37
Leeds, UK
Moderator comment - thread renamed from "Speed of ENGIE free chargers in West Yorkshire"

I'm wondering what speeds people get on the ENGIE 50kW chargers via CCS on the 2020 Model 3?

They are listed as 50kW, but I regularly only get 37 even with the heating and everything powered off. Occasionally, near the end of the charge when the car starts to make loud noises it will ramp up to 43kW. I often watch Tesla Bjorn and he seems to max out 50kW chargers in most cars...

I know you get 75minutes free and wondered if they are limiting the speed somewhat so you fall foul of the overstay fees.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

mikehj

Member
Jun 26, 2019
40
39
Edinburgh, UK
I use 50kW DC chargers quite often as they are so common in Scotland and this is one annoying feature of the Model 3. Other cars such as the VW ID4, Hyundai Kona and Nissan Leaf I've tried are able to draw between 43 and 50kW right from the start. However, the Model 3 on the same charger loses part of the speed because I learnt it starts heating the battery when you connect it to any DC charger. This is the noise you hear. The heating consumes around 5-10kW of power which results in the lower speed. One hack is to navigate to a nearby supercharger then it preheats the battery or do so called "yoyo driving" which generates heat but in my experience this is a false economy as the energy it burns simply needs replenished and on a 50kW charger this probably increases the charging time by much the same as you gain.
 

Burley

Member
Mar 10, 2021
86
49
United Kingdom
I have used them a few times, similar experience to yours @simonh. As you watch Bjorn’s videos you will probably know the M3 uses up to 7kW to heat the battery either when preconditioning or when DC charging when there’s not been any preconditioning. The car reports what’s going into the battery, I wonder if you did some maths at the charger it would show it delivering 43/44 kW when the car shows 37. The increased rate comes when the “afterburners” shut off and the full power delivered goes into the battery.

I’ve seen 46kW from the Engie chargers going into our Zoe, so they can deliver at least that much.
 

Burley

Member
Mar 10, 2021
86
49
United Kingdom
That's right, which is why I'll never see 50kW in the Zoe, because it can't take 125A when the battery is fully charged at 400v. In theory the M3 should be fine with that. but I still think it needs the battery to be warmer than the low ambient temperatures we've been having this May. I did try the other day to see if I could get closer to 50kW on the Engie charger by preconditioning the battery, telling the car I was going to use the Leeds SC and then charge at Kirkstall, but when I arrived someone else had just plugged in. Will have to try another day.
 

eight

Member
Sep 19, 2020
72
52
Stockport
I used a GeniePoint 50kw charger to test out my new CCS conversion on my 2018 MS. Stood in the carpark and had to open an account, add a credit card, fanny about with emails and the website and then it took ten quid from my card before I'd even had any power from them.
Didn't work. CCS conversion is working ok on superchargers but GeniePoint wasn't having any of it.
I then tried the 43kw Type 2 and that was fine... 37 minutes got me... wait for it... ready?... 10.43kw.
GeniePointless. And they still owe me that ten quid.

Warwick services was another good one - I plugged into a supercharger, wandered off for some food and spotted the Ecotricity 50kw chargers, situated right outside the building entrance - perfectly positioned so every man and his dog are squeezing alongside your EV. Two chargers, one with an unconnected Mini EV with an agitated owner staring at his phone scratching his head clearly wondering how to work it, the second charger charging a VW at a speed of 0.3kwh according to the screen. Yes, that's right. 300 watts. I have light bulbs bigger than that. Got my food, came back outside, Mini had given up and gone, and the man who was now sat in his VW ID3/4 said he was getting 15 miles per hour charge. 15 miles per hour.

Schmee150's latest Taycan charging adventure's worth a watch on YT too - a complete 3 hour failure.

Until the quality of the superchargers is matched by the rest of the charger network I can't see EVs ever being reliable enough to confidently use long distance in the UK. It's just nuts. Rant over.
 

Country Boy

Member
Oct 8, 2020
84
39
Herefordshire
After giving up waiting for a supercharger slot in Maidstone (pre warmed Battery M3) I went to the Polar charger outside M&S round the corner.

20% SOC, warm battery. Managed to get 47kW... The best I have ever seen...
 

Burley

Member
Mar 10, 2021
86
49
United Kingdom
Ok, thought I’d have another go at the Engie chargers. Currently on the 50kW on Scotthall Road. Preconditioned battery for 10 mins before arriving (set nav to Leeds SC), it’s 24oC so it should have been nice and warm. Turned off Aircon, cancelled nav. Plugged in at 34% and haven’t got more than 30kW until about ten minutes in when it started to increase a little. Now getting 37-38kW.
So it’s slower than it should be. The charger had been in use until a few minutes before I arrived. I wonder if they get too hot and reduce current accordingly?
 

Jason71

Active Member
May 8, 2019
3,186
3,249
Shropshire
I used a GeniePoint 50kw charger to test out my new CCS conversion on my 2018 MS. Stood in the carpark and had to open an account, add a credit card, fanny about with emails and the website and then it took ten quid from my card before I'd even had any power from them.
Didn't work. CCS conversion is working ok on superchargers but GeniePoint wasn't having any of it.
I then tried the 43kw Type 2 and that was fine... 37 minutes got me... wait for it... ready?... 10.43kw.
GeniePointless. And they still owe me that ten quid.

Warwick services was another good one - I plugged into a supercharger, wandered off for some food and spotted the Ecotricity 50kw chargers, situated right outside the building entrance - perfectly positioned so every man and his dog are squeezing alongside your EV. Two chargers, one with an unconnected Mini EV with an agitated owner staring at his phone scratching his head clearly wondering how to work it, the second charger charging a VW at a speed of 0.3kwh according to the screen. Yes, that's right. 300 watts. I have light bulbs bigger than that. Got my food, came back outside, Mini had given up and gone, and the man who was now sat in his VW ID3/4 said he was getting 15 miles per hour charge. 15 miles per hour.

Schmee150's latest Taycan charging adventure's worth a watch on YT too - a complete 3 hour failure.

Until the quality of the superchargers is matched by the rest of the charger network I can't see EVs ever being reliable enough to confidently use long distance in the UK. It's just nuts. Rant over.
you should be able to fail to charge on the Geniepoint app as a guest which avoids the account and preloading but they don't make it obvious because they don't really want you to.
 

Overworked

Member
Aug 22, 2021
84
54
Brechin, Scotland
Have any of you found any way to turn on pre-conditioning to assist when using non-Tesla rapid chargers?

I realise that I could set a SC destination to trick the car but that only works when the SC close enough to start pre-conditioning or is near the charger you are going to use. Up here in the wilds it is a long way to the nearest SC but only a few miles to a rapid charger!
 

MrT3

Member
Jun 26, 2021
409
233
UK
Have any of you found any way to turn on pre-conditioning to assist when using non-Tesla rapid chargers?
I don't think there is a way, other than what you say.

Tesla are adding third party charging destinations to the nav so you can set them as a destination and precondition but I'm not sure any UK destinations exist yet.
 

ACarneiro

Active Member
Jun 20, 2019
1,433
1,155
Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
I don't think there is a way, other than what you say.

Tesla are adding third party charging destinations to the nav so you can set them as a destination and precondition but I'm not sure any UK destinations exist yet.
Yes, I've been hearing about this for a while. It can't come soon enough, IMHO!
Mind you, I rarely use DC charging and when I do it's overwhelmingly on the SuC network so....
 

longmalx

Member
Aug 24, 2021
34
7
Edinburgh
9F6C4EB8-6E4D-4ADF-B12A-426EEAD7BCCE.jpeg
I got around 45 steady today from a ChargePlace Scotland charger in Glasgow - had the added bonus of being one of the free ones!
 

Nick77

Deep Blue Model 3 LR (2021 MIC)
Mar 15, 2020
501
205
Burton-on-Trent
I've managed to get a max of 48kwh on a GeniePoint at a Morrisons. Never any faster though. I assume that was because the battery was sufficiently warmed that it didn't need to draw any power for that.
 

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