Speed of DC 50kW CCS chargers

[simonh]

Moderator comment - thread renamed from "Speed of ENGIE free chargers in West Yorkshire"

I'm wondering what speeds people get on the ENGIE 50kW chargers via CCS on the 2020 Model 3?

They are listed as 50kW, but I regularly only get 37 even with the heating and everything powered off. Occasionally, near the end of the charge when the car starts to make loud noises it will ramp up to 43kW. I often watch Tesla Bjorn and he seems to max out 50kW chargers in most cars...

I know you get 75minutes free and wondered if they are limiting the speed somewhat so you fall foul of the overstay fees.

 

[NewbieT]

It’s not just you.

I’ve never had 50kW from any CCS 50kW machine. Probably a ‘theoretical’ number in perfect conditions. Throw in some charging loses and voila.

 

[mikehj]

I use 50kW DC chargers quite often as they are so common in Scotland and this is one annoying feature of the Model 3. Other cars such as the VW ID4, Hyundai Kona and Nissan Leaf I've tried are able to draw between 43 and 50kW right from the start. However, the Model 3 on the same charger loses part of the speed because I learnt it starts heating the battery when you connect it to any DC charger. This is the noise you hear. The heating consumes around 5-10kW of power which results in the lower speed. One hack is to navigate to a nearby supercharger then it preheats the battery or do so called "yoyo driving" which generates heat but in my experience this is a false economy as the energy it burns simply needs replenished and on a 50kW charger this probably increases the charging time by much the same as you gain.

 

[Bantam]

regularly use Engie chargers before the free vend is up in Oct, I once managed to squeeze 42kwh out when coming back from a long journey with a low SoC. I treat the 50Kwh number a bit like home Broadband speeds i.e the planets need to be aligned and conditions perfect for you to have a chance to get near the 50kwh number.

 

[Burley]

I have used them a few times, similar experience to yours @simonh. As you watch Bjorn’s videos you will probably know the M3 uses up to 7kW to heat the battery either when preconditioning or when DC charging when there’s not been any preconditioning. The car reports what’s going into the battery, I wonder if you did some maths at the charger it would show it delivering 43/44 kW when the car shows 37. The increased rate comes when the “afterburners” shut off and the full power delivered goes into the battery.

I’ve seen 46kW from the Engie chargers going into our Zoe, so they can deliver at least that much.

 

[JamesG601]

My understanding is that this is also a function of battery pack voltage. 50kW chargers are often current limited to 125A which can push 50kW into a pack at 400V, but a low state of charge pack at 350V for example, consuming 125A is only 43kW.

 

[Burley]

That's right, which is why I'll never see 50kW in the Zoe, because it can't take 125A when the battery is fully charged at 400v. In theory the M3 should be fine with that. but I still think it needs the battery to be warmer than the low ambient temperatures we've been having this May. I did try the other day to see if I could get closer to 50kW on the Engie charger by preconditioning the battery, telling the car I was going to use the Leeds SC and then charge at Kirkstall, but when I arrived someone else had just plugged in. Will have to try another day.

 

[NorfolkMustard]

Try to find some info on the chargers online / round the back on the info plate. E.g. BP 50kW chargers limited to 125A and make up for the limitation with volts.

https://bpchargemaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Ultracharge-brochure-1.pdf

Original Model 3 pack voltage hovers around 350volts

350V x 125A = 43.7kW

 

[eight]

I used a GeniePoint 50kw charger to test out my new CCS conversion on my 2018 MS. Stood in the carpark and had to open an account, add a credit card, fanny about with emails and the website and then it took ten quid from my card before I'd even had any power from them.
Didn't work. CCS conversion is working ok on superchargers but GeniePoint wasn't having any of it.
I then tried the 43kw Type 2 and that was fine... 37 minutes got me... wait for it... ready?... 10.43kw.
GeniePointless. And they still owe me that ten quid.

Warwick services was another good one - I plugged into a supercharger, wandered off for some food and spotted the Ecotricity 50kw chargers, situated right outside the building entrance - perfectly positioned so every man and his dog are squeezing alongside your EV. Two chargers, one with an unconnected Mini EV with an agitated owner staring at his phone scratching his head clearly wondering how to work it, the second charger charging a VW at a speed of 0.3kwh according to the screen. Yes, that's right. 300 watts. I have light bulbs bigger than that. Got my food, came back outside, Mini had given up and gone, and the man who was now sat in his VW ID3/4 said he was getting 15 miles per hour charge. 15 miles per hour.

Schmee150's latest Taycan charging adventure's worth a watch on YT too - a complete 3 hour failure.

Until the quality of the superchargers is matched by the rest of the charger network I can't see EVs ever being reliable enough to confidently use long distance in the UK. It's just nuts. Rant over.

 

[Country Boy]

After giving up waiting for a supercharger slot in Maidstone (pre warmed Battery M3) I went to the Polar charger outside M&S round the corner.

20% SOC, warm battery. Managed to get 47kW... The best I have ever seen...

 

[MrBadger]

After giving up waiting for a supercharger slot in Maidstone (pre warmed Battery M3) I went to the Polar charger outside M&S round the corner.

Just curious, was the in car info showing them as full/all in use?

 

[Country Boy]

Just curious, was the in car info showing them as full/all in use?

In car display said spaces until just before I arrived.....

 

[Burley]

Ok, thought I’d have another go at the Engie chargers. Currently on the 50kW on Scotthall Road. Preconditioned battery for 10 mins before arriving (set nav to Leeds SC), it’s 24oC so it should have been nice and warm. Turned off Aircon, cancelled nav. Plugged in at 34% and haven’t got more than 30kW until about ten minutes in when it started to increase a little. Now getting 37-38kW.
So it’s slower than it should be. The charger had been in use until a few minutes before I arrived. I wonder if they get too hot and reduce current accordingly?

 

[Jason71]

I used a GeniePoint 50kw charger to test out my new CCS conversion on my 2018 MS. Stood in the carpark and had to open an account, add a credit card, fanny about with emails and the website and then it took ten quid from my card before I'd even had any power from them.
Didn't work. CCS conversion is working ok on superchargers but GeniePoint wasn't having any of it.
I then tried the 43kw Type 2 and that was fine... 37 minutes got me... wait for it... ready?... 10.43kw.
GeniePointless. And they still owe me that ten quid.

Warwick services was another good one - I plugged into a supercharger, wandered off for some food and spotted the Ecotricity 50kw chargers, situated right outside the building entrance - perfectly positioned so every man and his dog are squeezing alongside your EV. Two chargers, one with an unconnected Mini EV with an agitated owner staring at his phone scratching his head clearly wondering how to work it, the second charger charging a VW at a speed of 0.3kwh according to the screen. Yes, that's right. 300 watts. I have light bulbs bigger than that. Got my food, came back outside, Mini had given up and gone, and the man who was now sat in his VW ID3/4 said he was getting 15 miles per hour charge. 15 miles per hour.

Schmee150's latest Taycan charging adventure's worth a watch on YT too - a complete 3 hour failure.

Until the quality of the superchargers is matched by the rest of the charger network I can't see EVs ever being reliable enough to confidently use long distance in the UK. It's just nuts. Rant over.

you should be able to fail to charge on the Geniepoint app as a guest which avoids the account and preloading but they don't make it obvious because they don't really want you to.

 

[Overworked]

Have any of you found any way to turn on pre-conditioning to assist when using non-Tesla rapid chargers?

I realise that I could set a SC destination to trick the car but that only works when the SC close enough to start pre-conditioning or is near the charger you are going to use. Up here in the wilds it is a long way to the nearest SC but only a few miles to a rapid charger!

 

[MrT3]

Have any of you found any way to turn on pre-conditioning to assist when using non-Tesla rapid chargers?

I don't think there is a way, other than what you say.

Tesla are adding third party charging destinations to the nav so you can set them as a destination and precondition but I'm not sure any UK destinations exist yet.

 

[ACarneiro]

I don't think there is a way, other than what you say.

Tesla are adding third party charging destinations to the nav so you can set them as a destination and precondition but I'm not sure any UK destinations exist yet.

Yes, I've been hearing about this for a while. It can't come soon enough, IMHO!
Mind you, I rarely use DC charging and when I do it's overwhelmingly on the SuC network so....

 

[MrBadger]

You can see the third party charger points on the map already if you scroll over to parts of mainland Europe.

 

[longmalx]

I got around 45 steady today from a ChargePlace Scotland charger in Glasgow - had the added bonus of being one of the free ones!

 

[Nick77]

I've managed to get a max of 48kwh on a GeniePoint at a Morrisons. Never any faster though. I assume that was because the battery was sufficiently warmed that it didn't need to draw any power for that.