Stalk or no stalk argument [not] settled

First, we should analyze the matter without considering that the brand Tesla is making these changes and understand from a automotive/ engineering/ ergonomic point of view that whether indicator in steering has benefits compare to stalk. If it does, I'll accept that.

Obviously there is always a trade off in anything.

Having stalk as an independent module that it's functionality is not influenced by the functionality of another module (steering). Ergonomically, we apply force by our arms to move the steering, and we operate the stalk by our fingers (not thumb). This configuration only make sense if the steering is round. So stalks works with a round steering.

The no stalk configuration is ergonomically acceptable if there is a yoke. And only if the yoke doesn't need to turn not more halfway. In this case your thumbs are always where they suppose to be to function.

Another issue is the gear Selector.

First, I don't know what how you would select gear if you break your screen. Second, if you have a yoke configuration, the intent is to keep you hands on the yoke all the time. But that conflicts with selecting gear because to select gear you have to take you hand off the yoke and touch the screen.

Another issue is that selecting gear on screen mandates eye engagement (but not the stalk) which again defeats the purpose of buttons in yoke.

So the no stalk configuration only makes sense if the gear Selector is also on the yoke and the yoke only turns halfway.

 

[MitchMitch]

I was wondering the same thing about placement a while back.

I convinced myself that they were trying to keep turn signals in the left hand like a traditional lever switch.

Old dog/new tricks department again:
I managed to cancel the cruise on the 2015 GMC today when I went to signal a left turn. . . even after all this debate about stalks . . . GOTTA PAY ATTENTION

 

[Destiny1701]

I'm unclear why you needed two hands to "place into R D or P"? Should only need one finger- either for the screen shifting, or the physical button shifting?


FWIW I do agree it's kinda dumb they didn't put the L and R turn signals on the L and R side of the wheel.... Looking at a 3 wheel it seems an easy fix-- swap the right turn signal to where the wiper button is, move the left turn signal up, put the wiper below it.

Top button on each side activates the turn signal on that side- bottom button does wiper (left) and horn (right)- problem solved.

As mentioned one hand to hold the wheel, other hand to flip the gear on the screen. With stalks, I can perform this operation same hand on wheel and flick up down.
Not to mention again ease of gear shifting while almost at a full stop in those situations where you need to shift quickly. Ie.3 point turn, shifting in your parking space.

While trying to park, some lady kept honking at me and raising her arms in frustration to move my ass because the shifting took an extra 1-2 seconds over usual speed. I have to say I agree with her on this one.

Yep. Some genius marketing guy at tesla ..let’s call him Johnson…decided to put LR signal buttons on one side. Needless to say Johnson should be fired lol. Quite unintuitive.

I’m considering upgrading my 22’ LR Boost to a new PM3 when it comes out. But I’m not convinced the stalkless is for me.
Been driving for 33 yrs now and have been through the glory days of manual rwd cars to auto shift to tiptronic to smg tranny to now no tranny.

While I’ve always been open to new tech and adapting, this simply feels like a step backwards. Fashion over function. Unless one can literally speak to the car and say ‘tesla reverse or tesla forward’ or some customized verbiage, I’m not sure I’d like to adapt to this one. Maybe if I had one for a week I’d adapt … but adapt to less efficiency?

 

[Knightshade]

As mentioned one hand to hold the wheel, other hand to flip the gear on the screen. With stalks, I can perform this operation same hand on wheel and flick up down.

Are you at a complete stop when doing this (as you typically should be for maximum safety)? If so, then you still only need 1 hand as you don't have to hold one on the wheel (though for legit max safety 2 hands should always be driving)

if you're doing it while moving...for some reason... you'd STILL want the other hand there as the one flicking a stalk wouldn't have a full grip/control on the wheel.

While trying to park, some lady kept honking at me and raising her arms in frustration to move my ass because the shifting took an extra 1-2 seconds over usual speed. I have to say I agree with her on this one.

Your sig says you're in Canada--- I don't believe someone was rude to you, sorry.

Unless one can literally speak to the car and say ‘tesla reverse or tesla forward’ or some customized verbiage, I’m not sure I’d like to adapt to this one.

That would be slower than just using the screen or button

 

[Abubakr]

Your sig says you're in Canada--- I don't believe someone was rude to you, sorry.

I don't know if it's the state of the economy now in Canada causing stress but more and more drivers are getting impatient these days...

 

[primedive]

Even in quantities of 1-2 million/year, those stalk assemblies can be surprisingly expensive. Maybe even as much as a dollar per car for the pair of them.

I don't know if it's the state of the economy now in Canada causing stress but more and more drivers are getting impatient these days...

This whole thing about Canada being polite is a myth... if anything I've found many Americans to be more polite, at least outside of the stroads and highways. Maybe depends which part of the country you're in, but our cities are just like cities elsewhere in the world.

 

[Zythryn]

I agree with the idea of putting the right blinker on the right side of the steering wheel.
I expect that change to be made somewhere down the line. It would have been easier to adjust to.

For me, I’ve found it helpful to leave my left thumb resting on the left turn signal (may not be possible with the S/X).

 

[mswlogo]

First, we should analyze the matter without considering that the brand Tesla is making these changes and understand from a automotive/ engineering/ ergonomic point of view that whether indicator in steering has benefits compare to stalk. If it does, I'll accept that.

Obviously there is always a trade off in anything.

Having stalk as an independent module that it's functionality is not influenced by the functionality of another module (steering). Ergonomically, we apply force by our arms to move the steering, and we operate the stalk by our fingers (not thumb). This configuration only make sense if the steering is round. So stalks works with a round steering.

The no stalk configuration is ergonomically acceptable if there is a yoke. And only if the yoke doesn't need to turn not more halfway. In this case your thumbs are always where they suppose to be to function.

Another issue is the gear Selector.

First, I don't know what how you would select gear if you break your screen. Second, if you have a yoke configuration, the intent is to keep you hands on the yoke all the time. But that conflicts with selecting gear because to select gear you have to take you hand off the yoke and touch the screen.

Another issue is that selecting gear on screen mandates eye engagement (but not the stalk) which again defeats the purpose of buttons in yoke.

So the no stalk configuration only makes sense if the gear Selector is also on the yoke and the yoke only turns halfway.View attachment 971357

On my S the PRND buttons light up if the screen malfunctions. They are always functioning but not always lit.

Not sure what 3/Y do for backup. I suspect there is a backup.

 

[mswlogo]

I don't know if it's the state of the economy now in Canada causing stress but more and more drivers are getting impatient these days...

What, a good economy causes stress now?

As far as I can tell Canada is doing ok, maybe not quite as good as USA but not bad.

 

[Destiny1701]

Your sig says you're in Canada--- I don't believe someone was rude to you, sorry.

Haha. March break in Florida.
Tested at Aventura Mall…not sure why a second made someone so irate.

Are you saying Canada is full of passive drivers? Ha, hardly. Most are a bunch of f’ing aholes …especially in winter!

Can’t wait to move south tbh…done with Canadia and its ridiculous economy. (Not being political just reality for many now).

And yes I find the U.S.day to day folk I meet super warm and friendly in comparison!

 

[jboy210]

On my S the PRND buttons light up if the screen malfunctions. They are always functioning but not always lit.

Not sure what 3/Y do for backup. I suspect there is a backup.

Same for my X

 

[Knightshade]

Haha. March break in Florida.
Tested at Aventura Mall…not sure why a second made someone so irate.

Are you saying Canada is full of passive drivers? Ha, hardly. Most are a bunch of f’ing aholes …especially in winter!

Can’t wait to move south tbh…done with Canadia and its ridiculous economy. (Not being political just reality for many now).

And yes I find the U.S.day to day folk I meet super warm and friendly in comparison!

I dunno... I lived in Ontario for a while and everyone I met was awesome... the only place I found driving anywhere approaching US levels of nuts was the QEW (between St Catherines and Toronto from my specific experience)

That said, I've lived most of my recent years in the US south (Florida does not count) and honking is exceedingly rare here.... I back into parking spots (objectively safer- but slower) and nobody's ever honked at me doing it.

 

[WyoDude]

Yep. Some genius marketing guy at tesla ..let’s call him Johnson…decided to put LR signal buttons on one side. Needless to say Johnson should be fired lol. Quite unintuitive.

This doesn’t make any sense and is assuredly false

 

[WyoDude]

No problem finding them, just remembering which was which. It's been two years now ... wow, what a car.

For me I found it easy to just place my thumb on the right blinker button as a default position. This made it super simple to operate both without issue.

I do wish they would do a raised symbol for each. This would make it very easy to distinguish by feel and improve usability more.

 

[Destiny1701]

This doesn’t make any sense and is assuredly false

It was a joke correct. Humour. Haha..

 

[Destiny1701]

I dunno... I lived in Ontario for a while and everyone I met was awesome... the only place I found driving anywhere approaching US levels of nuts was the QEW (between St Catherines and Toronto from my specific experience)

That said, I've lived most of my recent years in the US south (Florida does not count) and honking is exceedingly rare here.... I back into parking spots (objectively safer- but slower) and nobody's ever honked at me doing it.

When did you live in ON? We are from GTA and I’ll tell you buddy the last 3-4 yrs has seen a drastic shift in economic comfort for most and a mass influx of more a more immigrants with no housing, infrastructure support, policing, hospitals etc to manage the increased pop. And traffic on the 401, and qew into Toronto core? Insane.

Food prices are out of control, taxes are nuts and ‘free’ healthcare system is all but on the cusp of falling apart. I grew up in Ottawa and the Canada today is not even close to what it was sadly.

Wish it weren’t so…

Back to model 3…what’s funny was trying to get a sense of how much the new 3 has improved the suspension over our 22’LR and due to the Florida roads being so smooth! Impossible to have a full apples to apples comparison as our ONT roads are filled with crack repairs and bumps. The few bumps we did encounter around Aventura I felt only a subtle offence. But I was testing with 18” standard tires vs my 19” winter and 20” summer set. Hard to say

 

[Destiny1701]

Bro I reverse out of my driveway each morning and yes every single time the gear will be shifted to D as the car just about stopped..2-3kph mayb. Shifts perfectly and smooth forward shift without any time at complete standstill. At public parking lots…situational. This is done with one hand .

 

[whitex]

FWIW I do agree it's kinda dumb they didn't put the L and R turn signals on the L and R side of the wheel.... Looking at a 3 wheel it seems an easy fix-- swap the right turn signal to where the wiper button is, move the left turn signal up, put the wiper below it.

And now anyone who has 2 Teslas, one with the old signal buttons and one with the new ones will be activating wipers by accident. I know, retrofit time, best case scenario a software reprogramming with a label sticker for the steering wheel. Until then, educate the public that Tesla with it's wipers on means the driver could be trying to signal a turn or a lane change.

 

[whitex]

2024 Subaru WRX Ditches Nonsensical BMW-Style Turn Signal Stalks​

 

[primedive]

2024 Subaru WRX Ditches Nonsensical BMW-Style Turn Signal Stalks​

“even Tesla used them on the Model 3 before ditching them in favor of way more annoying steering wheel buttons.”

Hah…

I don’t mind this stalk behavior to be honest and thought it was interesting when I first got the car. I’ll take it over the buttons.

 

[3sr+buyer]

2024 Subaru WRX Ditches Nonsensical BMW-Style Turn Signal Stalks​

While the more traditional turn signal stalks that stay in position until canceled are slightly better than the ones that immediately pop back to the center position while still on, that difference is small compared to using the buttons instead of stalk, or other variations like positioning the stalk to be less reachable.