Stalk or no stalk argument [not] settled

First, we should analyze the matter without considering that the brand Tesla is making these changes and understand from a automotive/ engineering/ ergonomic point of view that whether indicator in steering has benefits compare to stalk. If it does, I'll accept that.

Obviously there is always a trade off in anything.

Having stalk as an independent module that it's functionality is not influenced by the functionality of another module (steering). Ergonomically, we apply force by our arms to move the steering, and we operate the stalk by our fingers (not thumb). This configuration only make sense if the steering is round. So stalks works with a round steering.

The no stalk configuration is ergonomically acceptable if there is a yoke. And only if the yoke doesn't need to turn not more halfway. In this case your thumbs are always where they suppose to be to function.

Another issue is the gear Selector.

First, I don't know what how you would select gear if you break your screen. Second, if you have a yoke configuration, the intent is to keep you hands on the yoke all the time. But that conflicts with selecting gear because to select gear you have to take you hand off the yoke and touch the screen.

Another issue is that selecting gear on screen mandates eye engagement (but not the stalk) which again defeats the purpose of buttons in yoke.

So the no stalk configuration only makes sense if the gear Selector is also on the yoke and the yoke only turns halfway.

 

[primedive]

Official FSD video showing off FSD in a car with… stalks.

I really just noticed it now, but it struck me that the steering wheel is so much cleaner with the stalks. Having a bunch of buttons show up there is not a move toward simplicity…

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

I agree. The clean, simple steering wheel is nicely ergonomic and aesthetic. The fact that it works better than stalkless is an added bonus.

 

[Tiger]

I finally understand why Audi and BMW drivers don't use blinkers. They must have these darn haptic on-steering-wheel-blinkers.

I just don't bother anymore (/s), they work 70% of the time even if I try.

I was about to propose swapping the blinkers for the left scroll wheel/button/joystick, but even the left scroll/wheel-button/joystick is buggy on S/X, it it confuses clicking with left/right (next/previous song). Used to work in my '21 M3LR.

Make Tesla Great Again.

 

[youngmcdonald]

Ignoring the astronomical insurance costs for a minute, I can comfortably say that the stalk-less design of the Model X is the very reason I decided to not buy one when I was this close to pulling the trigger. I don’t want a company to force me into learning something so radically different. I use my car as a machine to haul people, groceries, travel long distances, travel in incredibly stressful traffic situations, and to entertain myself on calm joy rides. I don’t want to undo my 25 years of muscle memory toying with my and other people’s safety around me.

What’s next? Putting the on (and off) BUTTONS for the ceiling fan, on the spinning ceiling fan itself so the walls can be clean?

Revert to stalks, now that they moved the horn back to the center of the wheel, and they earn one more customer.

 

[strider]

Revert to stalks, now that they moved the horn back to the center of the wheel, and they earn one more customer.

The aftermarket has stepped in: Model X/S Gear Shift Stalk Switch Turn Signal Lever Kit for Tesla

 

[youngmcdonald]

The aftermarket has stepped in: Model X/S Gear Shift Stalk Switch Turn Signal Lever Kit for Tesla

Great. This should really help!

Still no front bumper camera / parking / cross traffic alert sensors, though, yes?

 

[KGinCO]

The aftermarket has stepped in: Model X/S Gear Shift Stalk Switch Turn Signal Lever Kit for Tesla

Would love to see if this will work on the highland refresh...

 

[WyoDude]

I don’t want a company to force me into learning something so radically different.

 

[whitex]

I finally understand why Audi and BMW drivers don't use blinkers. They must have these darn haptic on-steering-wheel-blinkers.

Now explain why people in Teslas drive with DRL's off. It takes explicit effort to turn them off every time you drive (at least in the USA, Canada you cannot disable them at all), why would anyone do it?

PS> I already have a theory why Teslas are very often blinding the opposing traffic (I stood on a side of a busy road once, watching people which appeared to have their high beams on, turns out Model Y was most represented, then Model 3) - not every one was blinding, but out of the ones that were Tesla was most represented. The best reason I can come up with is poor factory alignment, and/or owners going into the headlight adjust menu and screwing with their setting and not able to revert back to the factory setting since Tesla does not provide this "restore headlight alignment" option.

 

[Tiger]

Now explain why people in Teslas drive with DRL's off. It takes explicit effort to turn them off every time you drive (at least in the USA, Canada you cannot disable them at all), why would anyone do it?

I believe Tesla uses all loopholes available in the laws to minimize power usage to get better mileage rating. For example, useful lights turn on only in underpassages and tunnels, and the DRLs are not really visible to oncoming traffic in broad daylight. I've been flashed at often many times even though they are on.

Regarding blinding the oncoming traffic, the other cause for being flashed at has been that previous night I forget high beams on, and Tesla doesn't know that after a long night, in the morning you don't need high beams any more, so I drive around all morning with high beams on (if it were a physical mode in the stalk I would notice it more easily). Almost every day I see an oncoming Tesla clearly with high beams very likely for this same reason. I flash at them and they think it's a Tesla greeting and they wave at me and continue driving with high beams on ...

 

[strider]

Would love to see if this will work on the highland refresh...

That would be useful info. Tesla decided to use the existing 3/Y steering column in the refreshed S/X - that is why the 3/Y stalks are even an option. The question will be whether Tesla redesigned the steering column for Highland to remove the places for the stalks to reside or left it as it was. There are cost issues either way - redesigning the part takes time and money whereas making an older part with more components is more expensive as well.

Curious if anyone has done a Highland teardown yet and knows the answer?

 

[3sr+buyer]

Tesla decided to use the existing 3/Y steering column in the refreshed S/X - that is why the 3/Y stalks are even an option. The question will be whether Tesla redesigned the steering column for Highland to remove the places for the stalks to reside or left it as it was. There are cost issues either way - redesigning the part takes time and money whereas making an older part with more components is more expensive as well.

Redesigning the part also means a different part to keep track of for inventory and supply chain purposes. It can also mean that reallocating existing supply from a slower selling model to a faster selling model is more difficult.

 

[ks1972]

Ignoring the astronomical insurance costs for a minute, I can comfortably say that the stalk-less design of the Model X is the very reason I decided to not buy one when I was this close to pulling the trigger. I don’t want a company to force me into learning something so radically different. I use my car as a machine to haul people, groceries, travel long distances, travel in incredibly stressful traffic situations, and to entertain myself on calm joy rides. I don’t want to undo my 25 years of muscle memory toying with my and other people’s safety around me.

What’s next? Putting the on (and off) BUTTONS for the ceiling fan, on the spinning ceiling fan itself so the walls can be clean?

Revert to stalks, now that they moved the horn back to the center of the wheel, and they earn one more customer.

You are not alone, once they announced stalkless model 3, I bought a 2023 M3P. Hopefully, another bad quarter or two will make them change course. Nobody ever didn’t buy a car because it had stalks, but, there are many buyers like me who don’t want a car without stalks.

 

[uscbucsfan]

You are not alone, once they announced stalkless model 3, I bought a 2023 M3P. Hopefully, another bad quarter or two will make them change course. Nobody ever didn’t buy a car because it had stalks, but, there are many buyers like me who don’t want a car without stalks.

The MY sales have dropped off as well. I don't think there's evidence of stalks driving down demand.

 

[Knightshade]

The MY sales have dropped off as well. I don't think there's evidence of stalks driving down demand.

Yeah, M3 sales in Q1 were bad because Fremont barely produced any, and the few they made no longer get tax credits- nothing to do with stalks or not.

 

[ks1972]

The MY sales have dropped off as well. I don't think there's evidence of stalks driving down demand.

I don’t think lack of stalks is a significant reason for dropping demand, but, it doesn’t help for sure

 

[youngmcdonald]

I don’t think lack of stalks is a significant reason for dropping demand, but, it doesn’t help for sure

I’d agree. There are probably a few buyers like me who test drove one and came out just confused as heck due to the stalkless design and just can’t see themselves driving one. And then there are some who would buy one because well, if Tesla’s doing it it must be the way of the future! All in all, this may be a wash.

The overall sales are tanking for all EVs due to insurance companies raising rates on Tesla which remains the numeric leader, interest rates aren’t helping, and smart buyers know that their used Tesla, let alone a non Tesla EV, can be suddenly worthless in this market a month after buying it.

On a side note, I was doing some test driving today (I own an EV), and happened to drive a BMW X7 and I couldn’t help but say to myself, “man I miss driving good gasoline engines, there’s just something about a powerful engine that shifts like butter…!”. I know it’s controversial to say this on a Tesla forum but in my own defense, I will also say that I drove the newest Hyundai Santa Fe and Palisade I wanted to end that test drive badly and couldn’t wait to leave the dealership.

I am not sure what to buy anymore! X has nostalks but excellent headroom and tech, and Kia EV9 is a losing game. And Rivian is…no comments.

 

[smogne41]

I don’t think lack of stalks is a significant reason for dropping demand, but, it doesn’t help for sure

I would guess it is a deal-breaker for at least 10-20% of perspective buyers. But that is just a guess based on friends I have asked.

 

[whitex]

I believe Tesla uses all loopholes available in the laws to minimize power usage to get better mileage rating. For example, useful lights turn on only in underpassages and tunnels, and the DRLs are not really visible to oncoming traffic in broad daylight. I've been flashed at often many times even though they are on.

My last Tesla was a 2018 Model S and DRL's were visible when looking at them, even if the "eyebrows" slowly burned out. As for saving power, all out Teslas turned on headlights in the rain automatically, even though it's not required in our state (it is in California IIRC).

Regarding blinding the oncoming traffic, the other cause for being flashed at has been that previous night I forget high beams on, and Tesla doesn't know that after a long night, in the morning you don't need high beams any more, so I drive around all morning with high beams on (if it were a physical mode in the stalk I would notice it more easily). Almost every day I see an oncoming Tesla clearly with high beams very likely for this same reason. I flash at them and they think it's a Tesla greeting and they wave at me and continue driving with high beams on ...

So if you turn on your high beams and shut off the car for the night, the car will turn on high beam headlights in the morning when you start it? All of our Teslas always started up with Auto-headlights/auto-high-beams (and DRL's on). Why would they do that? I'm sure high beams use more power too.

 

[3sr+buyer]

As for saving power, all out Teslas turned on headlights in the rain automatically, even though it's not required in our state (it is in California IIRC).

Required in California, according to Law section .

However, there was a period of time in 2022-2023 that this functionality was not working (i.e. in the rain, you had to turn on the headlights manually).