Stalk or no stalk argument [not] settled

First, we should analyze the matter without considering that the brand Tesla is making these changes and understand from a automotive/ engineering/ ergonomic point of view that whether indicator in steering has benefits compare to stalk. If it does, I'll accept that.

Obviously there is always a trade off in anything.

Having stalk as an independent module that it's functionality is not influenced by the functionality of another module (steering). Ergonomically, we apply force by our arms to move the steering, and we operate the stalk by our fingers (not thumb). This configuration only make sense if the steering is round. So stalks works with a round steering.

The no stalk configuration is ergonomically acceptable if there is a yoke. And only if the yoke doesn't need to turn not more halfway. In this case your thumbs are always where they suppose to be to function.

Another issue is the gear Selector.

First, I don't know what how you would select gear if you break your screen. Second, if you have a yoke configuration, the intent is to keep you hands on the yoke all the time. But that conflicts with selecting gear because to select gear you have to take you hand off the yoke and touch the screen.

Another issue is that selecting gear on screen mandates eye engagement (but not the stalk) which again defeats the purpose of buttons in yoke.

So the no stalk configuration only makes sense if the gear Selector is also on the yoke and the yoke only turns halfway.

 

[SS_M3]

The problem has been solved here in ILLINOIS, no one uses turn signals.

I do…

 

[whitex]

The problem has been solved here in ILLINOIS, no one uses turn signals.

Perhaps Tesla can create an Illinois version to save a few dollars on LEDs and touch buttons. Like cars in CA selling without rear defoggers or reduced thermal insulation, or cars in UAE without heaters - there are regional versions of cars.

 

[smogne41]

There were technically two turns involved in the overall maneuver, a left and a right, so no, not really. And the other car wasn't at the intersection when I started going, so I didn't think of signaling. I would guess that most people don't signal their moves in a parking environment--the need arose when the other car showed up across from me. Yes, I know a very one-off and somewhat rare scenario, but another perfect example of how a stalk does the job in every scenario, while the button has it's limitations.

That's the thing may people just can't understand: rare situations happen all the time. Specific rare events/situation don't happen very often (hence they are rare), but taken together rare situations are incredibly common.

 

[whitex]

but taken together rare situations are incredibly common.

Hence there are plenty to lottery winners in this world, but it doesn't mean it will happen to you.

 

[zoomer0056]

That's the thing may people just can't understand: rare situations happen all the time. Specific rare events/situation don't happen very often (hence they are rare), but taken together rare situations are incredibly common.

When looking at the forest of rare events, one can loose perspective of the one rare event. The forest is magnificent of course. To put it like Little Caesar's Pizza ... "It's too big for the human eye to measure!"

 

[Heckraiser]

A week in on my new Highland and I've noticed another "quirk" of the turn signals:

When turning when there is a dedicated (painted) turn lane involved, I usually have to signal twice. I signal that I'm turning and move into the turn lane, then the car interprets that as a completed lane change and cancels the blinker. I then have to push the button again to keep the signal on until I've actually completed the turn. Happens about 75% of the time a turn lane is involved.

I'm also noticing it's pretty annoying going back and forth between my tesla and other cars. I was running erands in the Lexus the other day and tried to signal my turns using the stereo volume button a couple times

 

[3sr+buyer]

When turning when there is a dedicated (painted) turn lane involved, I usually have to signal twice. I signal that I'm turning and move into the turn lane, then the car interprets that as a completed lane change and cancels the blinker. I then have to push the button again to keep the signal on until I've actually completed the turn. Happens about 75% of the time a turn lane is involved.

You can turn off the turn signal cancellation after lane change in the car's settings. Turning that feature off brings back the more traditional behavior.

 

[Heckraiser]

But then you'd have to press the button twice for every lane change. Still more input than a tap on the stalk.

 

[zoomer0056]

I usually have to signal twice. I signal that I'm turning and move into the turn lane, then the car interprets that as a completed lane change and cancels the blinker. I then have to push the button again to keep the signal on until I've actually completed the turn.

Yup, same with my 2022 MSLR, so must be true for all cars.

it's pretty annoying going back and forth between my tesla and other cars

I switch between ICE and Tesla too. But I've never been annoyed.

 

[A_Girl_Can_Dream]

I would just like to change the direction on the screen for drive and reverse. Anytime I have been in a situation where I quickly needed to reverse or drive, I always slide up for reverse and slide down for drive, looking like an idiot driver.

 

[BigNick]

I would just like to change the direction on the screen for drive and reverse. Anytime I have been in a situation where I quickly needed to reverse or drive, I always slide up for reverse and slide down for drive, looking like an idiot driver.

Because the "up for forward, down for reverse" swipe is the exact opposite of how every other lever-based automatic transmission (that I have driven) works. Obviously this excludes rotary knobs (which IMO are just weird, I'm driving, not changing channels on an old TV) and old Packard/Chrysler push button automatic gear selectors.

While "slide up on the screen for forward" might seem logical given the screen/map layout, it's counter-intuitive for those using a lever (whether on the column, console, or dashboard) to shift. Get rid of the "slide"/"drag" selection gesture entirely. Replace it with big "P" "R" "N" "D" software-buttons arranged in a fixed size and layout with the "P" at the top and the "D" at the bottom and it's far more intuitive. Touch the one you want and Bob's your uncle.

Fixed location touch targets is the key, far better than a clumsy swipe gesture. For those who want to enable auto-shift, identify which direction the car will go by turning the car's gear selection blue. Accelerate and the car moves in the highlighted direction. If the driver wishes to override the car's selected direction, touch the desired direction (which should turn blue to indicate the driver's selection has registered) and then off you go in your selected direction.

 

[rpiotro]

Just my 2¢ worth. I picked up my 2024 RWD Tuesday trading in my 2021 SR+. Picked it up at the store in Libertyville, IL and drove it home to Milwaukee, WI. By the time I got home I was perfectly comfortable with the buttons on the wheel. In fact I preferred them. As far as the shift selector goes, the P R N D L (perndal) in the overhead is just fine with me. The wife likes it too.

Apparently, you can teach an old dog new tricks. Aged 73.

 

[SalisburySam]

…P R N D L (perndal)…

I always heard it pronounced PRIN-dul. Midwesterner, to be fair.

 

[A_Girl_Can_Dream]

Because the "up for forward, down for reverse" swipe is the exact opposite of how every other lever-based automatic transmission (that I have driven) works. Obviously this excludes rotary knobs (which IMO are just weird, I'm driving, not changing channels on an old TV) and old Packard/Chrysler push button automatic gear selectors.

While "slide up on the screen for forward" might seem logical given the screen/map layout, it's counter-intuitive for those using a lever (whether on the column, console, or dashboard) to shift. Get rid of the "slide"/"drag" selection gesture entirely. Replace it with big "P" "R" "N" "D" software-buttons arranged in a fixed size and layout with the "P" at the top and the "D" at the bottom and it's far more intuitive. Touch the one you want and Bob's your uncle.

Fixed location touch targets is the key, far better than a clumsy swipe gesture. For those who want to enable auto-shift, identify which direction the car will go by turning the car's gear selection blue. Accelerate and the car moves in the highlighted direction. If the driver wishes to override the car's selected direction, touch the desired direction (which should turn blue to indicate the driver's selection has registered) and then off you go in your selected direction.

I see why the developers would think slide up for forward and down for reverse based on the screen, BUT, if you think of the car as a skateboard, raft, paddle board, or even walking, etc. the slide down motion corresponds to the physics of forward motion.

In tense situations, my brain will always think that way. It could clearly cause an accident and almost has. It needs to change!

 

[uscbucsfan]

I see why the developers would think slide up for forward and down for reverse based on the screen, BUT, if you think of the car as a skateboard, raft, paddle board, or even walking, etc. the slide down motion corresponds to the physics of forward motion.

In tense situations, my brain will always think that way. It could clearly cause an accident and almost has. It needs to change!

Down/Back for reverse is more logical. Intuitively, I would never think to swipe up for reverse.

Luckily Tesla agrees.

That said, I would fully support an option to invert aim.

 

[BigNick]

In just about two hours, people have disagreed on opinions on whether "up for forward" or "down for forward" is more logical.

Which is why the swipe-gear shift should be replaced with fixed location buttons for gear selection.

Tesla is using a screen. Don't mimic a stalk or lever, there is no physical object to move. Mimic the push-button shift concept instead.

 

[uscbucsfan]

In just about two hours, people have disagreed on opinions on whether "up for forward" or "down for forward" is more logical.

Which is why the swipe-gear shift should be replaced with fixed location buttons for gear selection.

Tesla is using a screen. Don't mimic a stalk or lever, there is no physical object to move. Mimic the push-button shift concept instead.

That's an opinion.

You are welcome to that, but swiping/gestures on a touch screen is more used than tapping for a reason. It's easier than pinpointing a button.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I see why the developers would think slide up for forward and down for reverse based on the screen, BUT, if you think of the car as a skateboard, raft, paddle board, or even walking, etc. the slide down motion corresponds to the physics of forward motion.

In tense situations, my brain will always think that way. It could clearly cause an accident and almost has. It needs to change!

For people that haven't gotten the shift lever convention ingrained from practice, actually it is far more intuitive to swipe up to go forward and down to reverse (much like arrow buttons on controllers for example). I believe it was mentioned as a contributing factor in the accident where the Model X fell into the pond, the owner had complained before about being confused about that (she used stalks).

 

[Izzyz28]

Here's a new perspective that seems to have been missed.........The car is what it is. If you don't like swiping a screen or pushing a button, buy a different car. If you can't figure out how to push a button or which way to swipe a clearly-labeled screen, surrender your driver's license and buy a bus pass.

 

[zoomer0056]

Here's a new perspective that seems to have been missed.........The car is what it is.

Yeah, so if one wants stalks then figure out how to modify a non-stalk car or buy a car with stalks. Quit yer belly achin', or not and then deal with the acid reflux by releasing it on the awesome TMC community.