Cool (I mean hot).
Congrats on getting your car.
Thanks! So far, so good. It was a long road diagnosing the problem with my car, but Tesla finally figured it out and all is well.
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Cool (I mean hot).
Congrats on getting your car.
@Pwdr Extreme , I was skeptical that the latest update would have anything to do with rear heat in the MX. But after reading your post, I tested the heater.Yesterday I drove the loaner MX P100DL I did all of this testing in back to the service center to finally pick up my MX, YAY! Anyway, I performed a software update the night before. Headed down thru Yellowstone Park temps were averaging around -15 with -27 being the lowest, much the same conditions as my previous tests, it was also dark outside, so no passive heating from the sun. I had the HVAC system set to full auto mode at 72 degrees which worked well in the 30 degree weather 3 days prior (and the last time I drove it). After driving about 50 miles it finally dawned on me I was completely comfortable and the window wasn't fogging up. Not to mention my girlfriend (who is eternally freezing) wasn't even complaining. I verified all of the settings, A/C off, all other settings in auto mode
@Pwdr Extreme , I was skeptical that the latest update would have anything to do with rear heat in the MX. But after reading your post, I tested the heater.
To my surprise, I now feel heat coming out the rear vents (manual mode, temp setting = 75 deg, fan =3).
It is still not as warm as the air in front using the same settings, but it is no longer cool to cold. I'm thinking of cancelling my SC appointment on issue.
Thanks for posting.
Actually they do`. Canada, Norway and Sweden are major markets for Tesla and Moscow has more than 50 of them, not to mention that they're entering Korea, among other very cold places.Thank you for the detailed response. It is very informative. Along those lines, trying to tease out causes and effects: were any of these other ICE vehicles you have driven in this -20degF weather (God that must be cold) 100% Aluminum? I believe aluminum is the second best metallic conductor of heat, surpassed only by copper. So, its fundamentally problematic . Audi A8, newest Ford F150? What else is all aluminum? Isn't there a Jag too?
I think it is likely Tesla never did extreme cold testing on this body, unless Mercedes-Benz did it for them (Mercedes owned 20% of Tesla when the Model S design was being completed) so it wouldn't surprise me if the S and to a slightly lesser extent the X isn't all that good in the extreme cold. Sounds like the HVAC logic needs an extreme cold update at the very least. so it more closely emulates the settings you have described.
So you set your thermostat to 78F in subzero weather and didn't dress for winter. In summer when it is over 100F, do you also set your AC to 58F and wear your spring jackets, pants, and sox? I do know a few people who think heaven is sleeping under down comforters with the AC blasting on hot summer nights, and of course we all tend to love a roaring fire in an overheated cabin when it is really cold out.
But I've always considered the human body to have a range of tolerable steady but inactive temperatures from about 68F to 78F, if one dresses appropriately with sweater, warm pants, sox and shoes in cooler weather, and short sleeve shirts, shorts, open shoes and no sox in warmer weather. It never occurred to me that human living space should be designed to provide warmer conditions when it is cold outside and cooler conditions when it is hot outside. I guess I just don't yet have the knack of using as much energy as possible in any given circumstance.
Definitely not in Range Mode, anything colder than about 30 - 40 or so and range mode doesn't provide enough heat.
Pwdr, maybe I didn't understand. Was the rear seat heat test to Yellowstone done in your car after pickup, or in the loaner car?That's great to hear! I've been wondering about the rear heat performance myself, I tried it for just a couple minutes in my garage, but nothing more. The right rear vent was blowing quite warm air, the left rear was warm and the front sides were luke warm, but warming up. I didn't sit there very long, but it stands to reason if the heater is in the right rear of the car, the ducts themselves will all take progressively longer to warm up.
It appears you have missed the point of my test entirely. For starters, just because the heat was SET to 78, doesn't mean it WAS 78. That's just what it needed to be turned up to in order to be comfortable, basically about 68-70 degrees. And, to answer your "dress for winter" question, I was dressed just like I am every other winter day when I get in any vehicle I happen to own to go to work, dinner, etc. Jeans, shirt, sneakers and a jacket. I'm acclimated to Montana and the colder weather. Being in below zero weather for 10-20 minutes at a time dressed like that is no problem whatsoever. If I'm going to be in the cold all day long, sure, wear the boots, the heavy jacket, the gloves, hat, etc. But my point is I didn't buy a $120,000 car to have dress like I'm snowmobiling while driving it. It seems that is the whole point you are missing. I like my vehicles the same temperature as my home or office regardless of the time of year. And that temperature falls right about 70 in the winter and no more than 74 in the summer. All of my other vehicles have been capable of this, and I wanted to see if my Tesla would be. And no, I don't wear Sweaters, thermal sox, and whatever else you mentioned because I would be way too uncomfortably warm once I arrived in my office at 70 degrees. And I'm not going to change clothes just to drive my car. Maybe you might be comfortable being cold in the winter and warm in the summer and that's perfectly okay. But myself and several others it seems don't want to spend large amounts of money and not be comfortable. We didn't buy Ford Festivas...
If you read my later post you would see that Tesla seems to have addressed the situation I experienced (and others) and are working towards correcting it. Now I can set the HVAC to 70 and be completely comfortable, even though it's -27 outside.
Ok, I'll concede that my post was a bit snippy and sarcastic and for that I apologize. You are entitled to be snippy in return.
Also I'm glad to hear that it was an anomaly that you needed to set the temperature to 78 to be comfortable. I have not encountered that issue in my Model S, and setting it to 20 or 21C is always sufficient to flow plenty of heat to actually get to that temperature and then back off. I realize it was extremely cold in your test, more so than is likely in Maryland or even New England, where I drive.
The idea of your test is sound and I agree that Tesla vehicles should be comfortably conditioned even in extreme weather. On the other hand, it seems absurd to hold Tesla, as a premium vehicle, to a standard of being capable of obscene energy waste, by which I mean sauna in winter and refrigeration in summer. It's especially galling to compare the effect of such waste on range with that of an ICE vehicle, where obscene energy waste is a given at all times. You appear to be demanding the ability to waste as much energy as you could if you were driving an ICE vehicle, in which case, why bother with a Tesla?
I won't hold Tesla responsible for upholding that particular standard.
On a side note, since finally getting my car and putting some miles on it, I've never turned the HVAC above 70, usually it's set at 69. Always been quite comfortable and my average is 425 Wh/Mi for the last 1,000 miles. Not bad considering my daily commute involves driving over a mountain pass each way and my battery is starting out cold-soaked 75% of the time. It hasn't been above freezing yet.
I take my Tesla X P100DL with all options 20 in tires to the mountains of North Carolina almost every weekend to 4300 feet, pretty high for NC. We have had two notable winter storms with over 6 inches of snow and sub-zero temps..
One of my key complaints is regard to the charging port in the snow and ice... I have the cold weather package, why does it NOT include heating of the Charge Port. It ices up and won't close. I am afraid that it will break trying to get the ice off of it to close it.. Pre-Heating the car does NOT clear the ice.
The X drives amazing well on the ice and snow.. I had to chain up my Volvo XC90 in the same conditions to feel just as safe (about the same tire wear)... I do wish I had a "low" option. Even with the highest regeneration, the hills are so steep by the cabin that I have to break to stop momentum and speed from building up. Climbing the snow and ice covered S-Turns, you can feel each tire working independently to claw its way up the mountain - impressive.
Not many options for you in the winter, that's for sure. The only thing I saw in Sioux Falls on PlugShare is Holly Crossing Center, which has a level 2 charging station (free), but you would need to leave your Tesla for several hours to get sufficient charging.Much as I would like to own one, I'm not sure that a Tesla is in the cards for me yet. The cold weather performance combined with lack of charging options in northeastern South Dakota is a killer. It would be a great daily driver as my wife drives about 30 miles every day for work, but road tripping with the kids in the winter would be a challenge due to lack of superchargers. If I'm going to spend that much money on a car I want to be able to use it whenever I want and not be leaving it in the garage because we have to drive too far. I think if I give it another couple of years to improve the supercharger network and continued improvement in battery technology I'll be a lot happier.
For instance, we live near Aberdeen and travel to Sioux Falls quite a bit. There's a supercharger in Mitchell, SD and almost nothing in Sioux Falls. It's 111 miles to Mitchell, then 73 from Mitchell to Sioux Falls. So we would be looking at 140 miles from Mitchell to Sioux Falls and back to Mitchell again. With staying a couple of nights in Sioux Falls and the car getting extremely cold soaked and doing running around town it doens't sound like that would cut it at all. Now if they built a supercharger in Sioux Falls then that takes care of that problem.
I will own a Tesla someday, just probably not for our next car.