Steering Assist Reduced

[mknewman]

I'm in a 2018 M3 LR with Beta Self Drive.

A couple of days ago I was parking and was very close to a car and the Steering Assist reduced message came up. I got a strong bump in the steering also, felt like it was trying to take control (I was going less than 1 mph). Got parked, no reduction in steering effort but message stayed up. I went in and ate, when I came out the message had cleared.

Yesterday I took it to a car wash, put it in Car Wash mode, and when done took it out of the mode, started driving and immediately got the same message plus a whole slew of others:

Steering Assist reduced
Automatic Emergency Braking is disabled
Stability Control is disabled
Traction Control is disabled

This time the steering effort was big, it felt like no assist at all. I was able to park and go run another errand, when I came out the messages had all cleared (in Notifications) and has been fine since.

PERSONALLY, as a 45 year software programmer, Systems Analyst, and nerd I think this feels like a software problem. This all started the day BEFORE I got the last software upgrade to 2022.44.30.10. I suspect it may have been trying to calibrate the cameras, and due to the close bumper and the brushes on the car wash may have freaked it out
I have an appointment at the SC that I scheduled after the first message but they want to replace the whole steering box for $2800.

First, I won't be spending $2800 unless it is broken and stays that way.

Next, I want to know if there is a way to go completely back to non-beta, ie, still using the ultrasonic sensors till Tesla figures out Tesla Vision for autopark.

Does anyone know if I turn off Beta can I get it to download a non-beta production version?

Thanks

 

[Clover]

I'd check your 12V battery. The way it is coming in and out and other systems are throwing messages reminds me of what I have seen in other cars when the battery starts to fail now. With your car being 4-5 years old now, it is worth checking before replacing the steering box, Turning while moving slow does put the most strain on the system though.

 

[mknewman]

I'd check your 12V battery. The way it is coming in and out and other systems are throwing messages reminds me of what I have seen in other cars when the battery starts to fail now. With your car being 4-5 years old now, it is worth checking before replacing the steering box, Turning while moving slow does put the most strain on the system though.

Thanks, that was a thought I had also. I had the 12v battery replaced under warranty about 2 years ago so it's likely due. I may try a Lithium auto battery replacement.

 

[P3dStealth]

Thanks, that was a thought I had also. I had the 12v battery replaced under warranty about 2 years ago so it's likely due. I may try a Lithium auto battery replacement.

If it's intermittent it could also be a shorted wire. If you park outside maybe rodents ate a wire bundle somewhere. It would make sense that it failed in a car wash because you wet it. Then worked again when dry.

It could be an electric power steering unit going bad but I don't think it would clear up sometimes.

This is just a guess. Let us know what it is when you find out.

 

[john_w]

Hi mknewman, I was wondering if you have any further updates on your M3 issues? I just encountered the same exact warnings as you did....and I'm also in a 2018 M3 LR with Beta Self Drive (28k miles). My warnings triggered all of a sudden when I tried to leave work during lunchtime on Tuesday. No previous warnings or issues that built up to this point. After some research on various forums, I think i've exhausted my efforts to find any visible causes.....

- checked my 12V battery.....it was replaced under Tesla warranty 2 yrs ago and is still reading 13.2V on battery voltage indicator
- removed frunk and checked for any visible loose wire connections, and any corroded ground wires.....nothing i could visibly find

Anyone else aware of any other items I might be able to check myself before bringing it in to Tesla?

Thanks!

 

[Clover]

Hi mknewman, I was wondering if you have any further updates on your M3 issues? I just encountered the same exact warnings as you did....and I'm also in a 2018 M3 LR with Beta Self Drive (28k miles). My warnings triggered all of a sudden when I tried to leave work during lunchtime on Tuesday. No previous warnings or issues that built up to this point. After some research on various forums, I think i've exhausted my efforts to find any visible causes.....

- checked my 12V battery.....it was replaced under Tesla warranty 2 yrs ago and is still reading 13.2V on battery voltage indicator
- removed frunk and checked for any visible loose wire connections, and any corroded ground wires.....nothing i could visibly find

Anyone else aware of any other items I might be able to check myself before bringing it in to Tesla?

Thanks!

I'm not 100% sure 13.2 is not getting low actually. Old cars that I am used to in the past would read more like 13.5-14.6V when the engine is running but only around 12.6V when resting.

 

[john_w]

I'm not 100% sure 13.2 is not getting low actually. Old cars that I am used to in the past would read more like 13.5-14.6V when the engine is running but only around 12.6V when resting.

Thanks Clover, I appreciate the response....I just re-tested the 12V and got a reading of 14.4V. I just put it on a battery charger, so I guess we'll see if that helps solve any of my issues.

But, the plot thickens....this morning I decided to take the car out to the store, and to my surprise, all the warnings were gone and the car drove perfectly fine with full power steering! But, after I finished at the store and started the car back up to return home, all the warnings came back on and power steering was disabled/reduced. So puzzling....I don't want to give up yet, but I'll likely have to just bring it in soon.

 

[z0lt3c]

The steering assist motor uses it's own ground wire connection to the frame rail. This connection can become corroded over time, or broken by rodents, and once you loose ground continuity, strange power assist behavior ensues. I would check to make sure this connection is clean on stable. Tesla often diagnoses this as failed steering rack because and will not "service" the power steering assist motor. Otherwise I would be looking for a short in a harness (getting any condensation in your lights?) or an issue with the battery.

 

[mknewman]

I've been having these issues on my 2018 M3, so I scheduled a service appointment. They want to replace the whole steering rack, $2770. Not going to happen. I decided to try to diagnose it myself. I have 45 years in the computer hardware and software industry, most of it at NASA.

First, power off would clear the errors (Controls/Safety/Power off). I'd leave it off for 10-20 seconds. But most of the time the problem would come back either immediately on moving the car or shortly thereafter.

The first time it happened I had just gotten 2022.45.15 so I suspected something to do with Tesla Vision. One time it happened when I was leaving a carwash.
I tried a number of things. I found some tree sap on the front camera housing area so I cleaned that off, but it continued to come back. I still didn't think it was hardware, as when the errors were clear sometimes it would run for a long time without popping the error. Once it happened parking and I got very close to another car. I started thinking "Tesla Vision".

Today I had a stroke of insight. I have a 512g Samsung NVME disk in it for Sentry and Dashcam, I don't use it a lot but started thinking computers sometimes take a long time to start up when disks get full. Directory nodes have to be read and hashed. Maybe the disk activity was interfering with the Tesla Vision by introducing some latency. So I formatted the drive (Controls/Security/Format USB) and went for a drive. No more errors.

I'll keep you informed but this appears to be the issue. You are welcome.

 

[DrChaos]

The first time it happened I had just gotten 2022.45.15 so I suspected something to do with Tesla Vision. One time it happened when I was leaving a carwash.
I tried a number of things. I found some tree sap on the front camera housing area so I cleaned that off, but it continued to come back. I still didn't think it was hardware, as when the errors were clear sometimes it would run for a long time without popping the error. Once it happened parking and I got very close to another car. I started thinking "Tesla Vision".

Today I had a stroke of insight. I have a 512g Samsung NVME disk in it for Sentry and Dashcam, I don't use it a lot but started thinking computers sometimes take a long time to start up when disks get full. Directory nodes have to be read and hashed. Maybe the disk activity was interfering with the Tesla Vision by introducing some latency. So I formatted the drive (Controls/Security/Format USB) and went for a drive. No more errors.

I'll keep you informed but this appears to be the issue. You are welcome.

Perhaps also re-install the software? You can do it from 'service mode'. Hold down the tesla T icon for a bit, then type in the password "service" when it asks.

12V also can be the problem too. Do the installation while it is plugged in, and then let it sit for a while.

Also try changing the SSD back to the factory one---it can sometimes be that the low level behavior or driver can also induce intermittent latency.

 

[Resist]

Also try changing the SSD back to the factory one---it can sometimes be that the low level behavior or driver can also induce intermittent latency.

His car is a 2018, they didn't come with an SSD back then.

 

[Resist]

Today I had a stroke of insight. I have a 512g Samsung NVME disk in it for Sentry and Dashcam, I don't use it a lot but started thinking computers sometimes take a long time to start up when disks get full. Directory nodes have to be read and hashed. Maybe the disk activity was interfering with the Tesla Vision by introducing some latency. So I formatted the drive (Controls/Security/Format USB) and went for a drive. No more errors.

Are you sure the SSD being full for Sentry and Dashcam would have anything to do with the system that controls the steering. Aren't they using different computers?

 

[mknewman]

Are you sure the SSD being full for Sentry and Dashcam would have anything to do with the system that controls the steering. Aren't they using different computers?

Not even sure the disk was full. I just know that one thing cleared the errors!

 

[mknewman]

Follow up, drove 75 miles today much of it on autopilot and zero errors.

 

[mknewman]

Ok, so a further followup. Reformatting the SSD didn't help. Removed it and still had the problem. Tesla wanted $2770 to replace the steering rack and $215 to do a check first. I had a visit scheduled but have canceled it.

I still continued to think this felt like a software error so I 'lived' with it for a while. Power off/on in Safety would temporarily fix it.

Finally got 2023.7.15 (I am on Beta) and 1) the number of errors has greatly reduced, only Steering Assist reduced and 2) Lane Assist unavilable. These seem to come out maybe 1 in 4 drives now, and always when turning the car on. It has happened merely sitting in the seat, not even touching the gear stalk. Also, the CLUNK which was happening and strong movement of the wheel is no longer happening at all.

It's acting like the CPU doesn't have enough oomph to handle the load of startup (I do use full sleep mode, no Sentry), so it throws the error.

I'm going to wait out the 11.3.6 release that should be out soon and see if it improves further.

 

[You.]

ABS Sensor. often happened to my car when parking due to full lock.

 

[mknewman]

Well, I hate answering my own question but here goes!

I had 3 appointments at Tesla which I canceled each time because the car would get the Steering Assist errors intermittently. Sometimes I would get it once and after a power cycle it'd go away for a day, sometimes it'd happen several times in a drive. I did long drives including 200 mile drives with no errors but it would appear at crazy sporadic times.

Anyway I'm a software guy and first blamed it on the Tesla Vision as that was the release I got just before it started. I went through 3 more updates and it essentially stayed the same.

Tesla wanted $2770 to replace the steering rack but there were several other errors that I couldn't relate to the steering rack (Hold mode, Traction control, etc) so I kept trying things.

Finally I had a stroke of luck. I remembered turning on Driving Mode in my Android phone around that same time. This is in Android 13 under Settings/Modes and Routines.

Yesterday I turned it off and have been driving clean since.

My suspicion is that the phone is polling the car over bluetooth so fast that it's slowing down the whole system and causing Tesla Vision to be unstable, probably missing frames and such.

I remember years ago Musk bragging about FSD doing 40 fps. I'm wondering if with Tesla Vision they are still able to achieve that.

 

[BigNick]

I remember years ago Musk bragging about FSD doing 40 fps. I'm wondering if with Tesla Vision they are still able to achieve that.

40 fps is nothing to brag about, IMO.

At 85 MPH (maximum AP speed on non-radar cars) a vehicle or other object can travel about 3 feet/1 meter in 1/40th of a second.

 

[mknewman]

Tonight I was listening to the 2023Q2 stock results and we were going out to dinner so I pulled up my phone and got it playing on Youtube. When I got into the car I switched to Bluetooth and connected the car to my phone and immediately got a 'Steering Assist reduced' message, not even putting it into drive!

Powered the car off and it went away but got it again a bit later. Removed the BT connection and no more problems.

BTW my phone is a 3 year old Samsung Note 20 Ultra 5G. Not the fastest anymore but it was definitely a flagship in it's day.

 

[mknewman]

I'm starting to think this is a problem I cannot solve externally. I'm very tempted to get off the Beta, as I think Tesla Vision started all this.