Stop the Press! Tesla announces REAL HP numbers for P85D and P90L

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Bravo, Tesla, for coming out with the real hp numbers.

But, can you please put the shaft hp numbers front and center and ditch the "motor power" numbers altogether going forward? No one gives a damn about those, and they've only caused - and will continue to cause - a lot of angst.

 

[3mp_kwh]

Thanks to both Tesla, and the people proven correct. HP measurement does not care what you show up with (batteries, ICE, motors...). If you bought on "691 motor HP", I sympathize but don't believe you have any legal leverage against Tesla (foreigners another matter). My memory of the very night P85D was announced, to now, was that an awful lot of people were about to become confused.

HP is nonsense

I wouldn't go this far, and think it is a pitiful think to say in the wake of all the other techno BS that has been thrown around. Yes, the acceleration numbers folks bought P85D on were delivered, but please no slack on "peak HP". Why Tesla didn't instead promote actual "713lb ft torque, from rest!!!" is beyond me. That curve, kicking so many of us into smile land, is the one smashing much higher HP cars into little pieces. It's a truthful, only slightly less common stat. So, why all the talk about "chemical" limits, again, I will never understand.

Tesla told no one they were buying a car with 691HP, at 70mph. Time to move on, maybe to something different if you can't shake this mess. Just be sure to compare roll-on times, before you think you'll be doing much better.

 

[TSLAopt]

Let me first state I am only one person with one opinion who is NOT trying to convince anyone else of anything. Just felt I needed to comment on the subject having bought a P85+ and recently ordered a 2016 Model S 90D and Model X.

Personally, I could care less about written specifications before or after I buy anything physical. I bought and will continue to buy Tesla's products for the actual driving experience. To me, it's a car, not a page or screen with data. I don't regret it now that someone is suggesting what I felt was not equal to what the data claimed. I became interested from the data but made my decision based on driving the car. If it was a measurable physical experience I would have passed after the test drive.

What day to day use issue does this pertain to? We all grew up driving sleds that had 0-60 mph times in the double digits. If anyone felt let down because their car was slower it could have been addressed the day they picked it up. When has anyone ever tested their new car with a stop watch before paying for it?

I guess I'm too easy going. There are too many more important issues in our world that deserve my time than calling out anyone for too little horsepower in my fastest sedan ever produced.

We're all entitled to our positions and opinions. I respect and appreciate them. It is after all, a forum.

+10000

the few complainers on here are lost in the wrong area of the forest.
If I were Tesla I'd consider settling with those making a big stink about it if they sign something stating they can never buy a Tesla product again for the rest of their life, good riddance to those people.

p.s. I also own a P85D and am very happy with it...I don't care what my piece of paper says (even if It said 1 HP) as in reality it is damn fast

 

[WestCoastP85D]

Again, it's the whole "look you in the eye" and "trust me" thing. It makes the difference between one-time customers and life-time customers for some. Frankly, I no longer give Tesla the benefit of the doubt on any public statement. Where are the 10.9 quarter mile times in the real world for P90DL? Is that torque number real? Has reliability improved? Auto-pilot ships soon...was a year.. and what about Supercharger free for life? Uh.... for long distance travel?

Yes, the car drives as the car drives. And (thankfully), it's a blast.

For me, the concern here is about trust in a high-end vendor. It's the business agreement and terms of purchase from a product spec point of view that I have issue with. Feels deliberate. Doesn't sit well. I can't believe I am the only one who feels this way.

Let me first state I am only one person with one opinion who is NOT trying to convince anyone else of anything. Just felt I needed to comment on the subject having bought a P85+ and recently ordered a 2016 Model S 90D and Model X.

Personally, I could care less about written specifications before or after I buy anything physical. I bought and will continue to buy Tesla's products for the actual driving experience. To me, it's a car, not a page or screen with data. I don't regret it now that someone is suggesting what I felt was not equal to what the data claimed. I became interested from the data but made my decision based on driving the car. If it was a measurable physical experience I would have passed after the test drive.

What day to day use issue does this pertain to? We all grew up driving sleds that had 0-60 mph times in the double digits. If anyone felt let down because their car was slower it could have been addressed the day they picked it up. When has anyone ever tested their new car with a stop watch before paying for it?

I guess I'm too easy going. There are too many more important issues in our world that deserve my time than calling out anyone for too little horsepower in my fastest sedan ever produced.

We're all entitled to our positions and opinions. I respect and appreciate them. It is after all, a forum.

 

[dsm363]

Again, it's the whole "look you in the eye" and "trust me" thing. It makes the difference between one-time customers and life-time customers for some. Frankly, I no longer give Tesla the benefit of the doubt on any public statement. Where are the 10.9 quarter mile times in the real world for P90DL? Is that torque number real? Has reliability improved? Auto-pilot ships soon...was a year.. and what about Supercharger free for life? Uh.... for long distance travel?

Yes, the car drives as the car drives. And (thankfully), it's a blast.

For me, the concern here is about trust in a high-end vendor. It's the business agreement and terms of purchase from a product spec point of view that I have issue with. Feels deliberate. Doesn't sit well. I can't believe I am the only one who feels this way.

Both the autopilot issue and Supercharger free for life issues have long threads and are not as simple as you make it seem. Autopilot wasn't a year late and Tesla said it was intended for long distance travel. As far as I know they haven't actually sanctioned any owner for Supercharger abuse with local charging because they were too cheap to charge at home.

You are not the only one who feels that way. Hopefully Tesla learns something from this. Marketing the way other car companies have doesn't sit well with many.

 

[farzyness]

Motor horsepower is incredibly relevant - those asking tesla to remove it or disregard it are extremely short sighted. Once Tesla begins offering upgraded batteries and fuses that are capable of taking advantage of the full motor power, the same people whining about "true" horsepower are going to be praising Tesla as the greatest company ever. You will have the ability to make your car more powerful in the future with a battery and fuse swap.

 

[dsm363]

Motor horsepower is incredibly relevant - those asking tesla to remove it or disregard it are extremely short sighted. Once Tesla begins offering upgraded batteries and fuses that are capable of taking advantage of the full motor power, the same people whining about "true" horsepower are going to be praising Tesla as the greatest company ever. You will have the ability to make your car more powerful in the future with a battery and fuse swap.

Great point. Both pieces of information are relevant and important. No reason to get rid of one just because system power was finally added.

 

[Hookmaker]

Finally, the begining of the end of the PT Barnum school of marketing at Tesla ... Even if there is a sucker born every minute, it won't be enough for Tesla to be successful. Good on the company, at LONG last.
Thanks to all who did the research and spoke up. This is how progress is made.

To the Danes in particular, an homage thanks to another famous Dane (HC Andersen):

So off went the Emperor in procession under his splendid canopy. Everyone in the streets and the windows said, "Oh, how fine are the Emperor's new clothes! Don't they fit him to perfection? And see his long train!" Nobody would confess that he couldn't see anything, for that would prove him either unfit for his position, or a fool. No costume the Emperor had worn before was ever such a complete success.
"But he hasn't got anything on," a little child said.
"Did you ever hear such innocent prattle?" said its father. And one person whispered to another what the child had said, "He hasn't anything on. A child says he hasn't anything on."
"But he hasn't got anything on!" the whole town cried out at last.

​

Haha, Thank for that one Yeak-55, we could have known this was coming, had we just remembered this old tale...:wink:

 

[jpet]

You will have the ability to make your car more powerful in the future with a battery and fuse swap.

A guarantee from Tesla that this will happen at a reasonable price sometime down the road is good enough for me as compensation for their 691/700 hp misstep.

 

[ecarfan]

I applaud Tesla for responding to valid concerns and clarifying the vehicle specs. It will not satisfy everyone -- no surprise -- there -- but it seems like a reasonable thing to do. I think the company is maturing and I am happy that it is responsive to complaints. Obviously Tesla watches TMC closely and reacts, not to every little thing bit certainly to those issues that attract a lot of commentary here.
For the vast majority of Tesla's customers and prospective customers, the HP number issue is invisible to them. They read the many reviews of how awesome the car is, maybe talk to owners they know, and never give a moments thought to how the HP and acceleration times are portrayed. The car is astonishingly quick compared to anything else they have driven, and that is all that matters to them.

 

[Discoducky]

Respecting others opinions....Very interesting turn of events that I couldn't care less about. For me it's about driving performance. Pointing at roads, turns, destinations and getting there as fast as possible when you want to.

I do care about 0 to 60, cornering and lap times (a handful of times a year that I'm at the track) as they compare to other cars tested at the same time in the same way when considering a purchase. For instance, it is very interesting data that comes from Drag Times and a bit watered down from Top Gear. Real world performance numbers and driving experience (understeer, oversteer, body sway, body roll, etc) make the car worth driving and pushing it as fast as possible.

For the next Roadster lap times will be paramount, but for the S and X and 3 it is much less important.

HP for EV's has become similar to CPU Ghz for computers and it just isn't a good measure for the true performance of the machine when you want to push it to its limits

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Motor horsepower is incredibly relevant - those asking tesla to remove it or disregard it are extremely short sighted. Once Tesla begins offering upgraded batteries and fuses that are capable of taking advantage of the full motor power, the same people whining about "true" horsepower are going to be praising Tesla as the greatest company ever. You will have the ability to make your car more powerful in the future with a battery and fuse swap.

Fair enough but, when such upgrades are offered, the new, higher shaft hp numbers can be published and that should suffice, right? These motors' sole purpose is to turn the shaft, isn't it?

 

[Chasedrgc1223]

The 85D must be software limited, as both motors are capable of 259 horsepower (519 hp combined) but is limited to 417 hp, which in reality it is limited to more like 475 if you use REST API or whatever. In reality, the 85D's claimed 0-60 of 4.2 sec is really 3.7-3.8 seconds, confirmed by numerous owners. 85D is clearly the better buy, plus extra range.

 

[tezzla]

So you have purchased your last Tesla?

I don't know? What I do know is: I'll never trust what they say. I'll never order without driving and/or comparing different models. Again, it's the trust factor, I do not trust Tesla/Elon. It's not the money, it's the deception, I can afford to blow $135k on a whim. I am (used to be) a very impulsive buyer, referring to the D event, I didn't want to wait until February (at the earliest) to test drive a 85D/P85D before I ordered (and wait another 6 weeks for a car). The Tesla model forced my hand (no fault of Tesla, this is my own perceived problem).

I'm guessing I'll probably buy the Audi e-tron (or the Porsche mission E) because I don't want to support Tesla (due to their continuing deceptions). I just watched the D event video again; my P85D is NOT more efficient than my P85, the car will not park itself, the car will not come when called. These are things elon (verbally) promised over 1 year ago, nothing!

 

[apacheguy]

The 85D must be software limited, as both motors are capable of 259 horsepower (519 hp combined) but is limited to 417 hp, which in reality it is limited to more like 475 if you use REST API or whatever. In reality, the 85D's claimed 0-60 of 4.2 sec is really 3.7-3.8 seconds, confirmed by numerous owners. 85D is clearly the better buy, plus extra range.

Really? I never heard that 3.7 s number. It's faster than a P85, if true.

 

[dsm363]

I don't know? What I do know is: I'll never trust what they say. I'll never order without driving and/or comparing different models. Again, it's the trust factor, I do not trust Tesla/Elon. It's not the money, it's the deception, I can afford to blow $135k on a whim. I am (used to be) a very impulsive buyer, referring to the D event, I didn't want to wait until February (at the earliest) to test drive a 85D/P85D before I ordered (and wait another 6 weeks for a car). The Tesla model forced my hand (no fault of Tesla, this is my own perceived problem).

I'm guessing I'll probably buy the Audi e-tron (or the Porsche mission E) because I don't want to support Tesla (due to their continuing deceptions). I just watched the D event video again; my P85D is NOT more efficient than my P85, the car will not park itself, the car will not come when called. These are things elon (verbally) promised over 1 year ago, nothing!

I thought the car was more efficient (at highway speeds only after the torque sleep update), the car can parallel park itself now and the car coming on its own was something he talked about as possible one day, not an explicit promise that it was coming 'soon'.

 

[BrianC]

I wonder what this and the addition of the X rollout numbers (its been a month and a single X has yet to roll off the line correct?) will hurt the stock further on next weeks 4Q call numbers. Oh, and the SC tank of 20% as well... interesting timing for this for me.

 

[Chasedrgc1223]

It is certainly faster than the P85. I know this isn't exactly GPS precise, but here's a video of a bunch of drag races of an 85D, consistently running 3.8s and one 3.7. Great video to watch through if you have the time. Tesla Model S 85D Drag Tested 28 Times - YouTube

 

[WestCoastP85D]

Yep. I owned nothing but german cars for years. Switched to Tesla based on the D event too, and corresponding sales interactions. Trust is damn important.

I don't know? What I do know is: I'll never trust what they say. I'll never order without driving and/or comparing different models. Again, it's the trust factor, I do not trust Tesla/Elon. It's not the money, it's the deception, I can afford to blow $135k on a whim. I am (used to be) a very impulsive buyer, referring to the D event, I didn't want to wait until February (at the earliest) to test drive a 85D/P85D before I ordered (and wait another 6 weeks for a car). The Tesla model forced my hand (no fault of Tesla, this is my own perceived problem).

I'm guessing I'll probably buy the Audi e-tron (or the Porsche mission E) because I don't want to support Tesla (due to their continuing deceptions). I just watched the D event video again; my P85D is NOT more efficient than my P85, the car will not park itself, the car will not come when called. These are things elon (verbally) promised over 1 year ago, nothing!

 

[MuppetOwl]

The 85D must be software limited, as both motors are capable of 259 horsepower (519 hp combined) but is limited to 417 hp, which in reality it is limited to more like 475 if you use REST API or whatever. In reality, the 85D's claimed 0-60 of 4.2 sec is really 3.7-3.8 seconds, confirmed by numerous owners. 85D is clearly the better buy, plus extra range.

4.2 sec is without rollout on the 85D. Only the p85d and p90d have 0-60 times using rollout. So that the 85d does 3.8 to 3.9 using 1 ft rollout is as expected.