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personally I think yobigd20's usage of the SCs falls within the original intent that Telsa had for the SCs. He just happens to do this "road trip" on a daily basis (poor guy!!).
I do think that one day Telsa will start restricting use of the SCs somehow but this is a long, long way off and many of you will be on your 3rd or 4th Tesla vehicle by then. Also, the EV landscape will be very, very different than what it is today and it will be more obvious that in the absence of having to pay for SC each time you use it, other restrictions will be needed b/c there are not enough SC sto fit demand. Again that is a long way off. For now, dear ealy-adaptors, enjoy your unrestricted use of SCs as u see fit, and don't worry so much about who is getting more "free" stuff or VFM on their $2,000 SC access fee.
some
I do think that one day Telsa will start restricting use of the SCs somehow but this is a long, long way off and many of you will be on your 3rd or 4th Tesla vehicle by then. Also, the EV landscape will be very, very different than what it is today and it will be more obvious that in the absence of having to pay for SC each time you use it, other restrictions will be needed b/c there are not enough SC sto fit demand. Again that is a long way off. For now, dear ealy-adaptors, enjoy your unrestricted use of SCs as u see fit, and don't worry so much about who is getting more "free" stuff or VFM on their $2,000 SC access fee.
some
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
There's a very simple definition that gets to the root of the problem:
If you can replace that SC session with daily overnight charges at home, then the SC probably is not used as intended.
Road trips are such that you don't really have a viable option other than public charging. Commutes (long or otherwise) can generally be covered with home charging without ever touching a public station.
If your daily commute stretches so long that you must charge at a supercharger or other public station to make it home, that's a different matter, but that still falls under the intended use case (as you aren't simply choosing the supercharger just to avoid paying for electricity).
If you can replace that SC session with daily overnight charges at home, then the SC probably is not used as intended.
Road trips are such that you don't really have a viable option other than public charging. Commutes (long or otherwise) can generally be covered with home charging without ever touching a public station.
If your daily commute stretches so long that you must charge at a supercharger or other public station to make it home, that's a different matter, but that still falls under the intended use case (as you aren't simply choosing the supercharger just to avoid paying for electricity).
The superchargers are intended for enabling road trips.
If your daily commute is 120 miles away and you're recharging at a supercharger
10 miles from home you're gaming the system IMO. If you're supercharging 100
miles away on your daily commute I'd say this is valid usage.
The supercharging page (Supercharger | Tesla Motors) doesn't spell out any restrictions however.
I am not trying to provoke you (or anyone else for that matter) but where does it spell out that superchargers are "intended for enabling road trips"? I think you probably assume that to be true based on their locations but "valid usage" to me would be convenience and cost savings. It looks as though I will not even have a supercharger within driving distance for a year or two, but if one ever does get within range I intend to use it to best advantage. I bought my MS primarily for these kinds of savings. Maybe when I get my $2000 worth...
The only restriction is common sense.
Who in their right mind would stop for half an hour just 10 minutes from home when not out of charge/range?
Every day?
Very special people only.
Who in their right mind would stop for half an hour just 10 minutes from home when not out of charge/range?
Every day?
Very special people only.
From: Supercharger | Tesla Motors
ROAD TRIPS MADE EASY
Tesla Superchargers allow Model S owners to travel for free between cities along well-traveled highways in North America and Europe. Superchargers provide half a charge in about 20 minutes and are strategically placed to allow owners to drive from station to station with minimal stops.
:
:
Why is it free?
We want to encourage Model S owners to take road trips.
It never says anywhere "why should you charge at home?".
/Ed
I think this litmus test is pretty reasonable. It moves the equation to one based on need, versus simply avoiding having to pay for ones own daily driving usage.
There's the spirit of the law, vs. the letter of the law. Certainly Tesla is not restricting usage with any particular verbiage or mechanism, but as EdA's quote from the Tesla site indicates, they are there to enable road trips. A number of Elon's comments regarding the supercharger infrastructure also were to the point of "removing obstacles for longer trips".
So, is Tesla expressly forbidding using the superchargers today so a person can avoid paying for electricity for normal driving? No. If enough people do it, will it force them to reconsider in the future? Probably.
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Very hard to have decent affordable housing and a decent job in under 25 miles one-way here in DFW. Anyway, every time I've moved closer to work the office has moved so i don't even try for close anymore. There are a number of folks where I work that drive 90 miles one-way.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Nice succinct way of putting it. Right now the chargers aren't utilized enough for it to be a huge issue even if some people are "freeloading". However, when it does, it'll be other drivers complaining (as has happened in Gilroy) which will force Tesla to do something (either expand number of chargers, or when that's not possible, restrictions on charging).
90% of my charging is at the local supercharger. At home I only plug in 110v at 6amps to feed the car a bit. I don't even have any charging equipment at home.
Depends on how much electricity cost I guess. So if you live in Germany, you are paying about USD0.40 per KW/h. People with high usage in the area I live in can easily pay USD0.35 per KW/h. So filling up 70KW/h or so costs USD 25, more that that if you live in Germany. Now that gets me about 200 miles (The same in an ICE car would be about 7 gallons at $3.5 per gallon = $25).
If I would be living in Washington State and pay $5 to fill my car I would not spend time at a supercharger. But at $25 things start to add up.
Kraken
Member
Great, we can all agree on this Internet forum that charging at a supercharger to avoid paying a higher electrical bill is wrong. Hooray for us, but tesla is selling this car to the common public, not just us. The common public is used to filling up at stations frequently anyway. This will happen quite frequently (and already does at a lot of locations, like Folsom). I understand it can be frustrating for some, but realistically those who are filling up 40 miles won't be there any longer than a gas pump, and it won't add much to their daily commute either.
quite frankly, while I don't know if I will switch to this method when vacaville opens up (probably a moot point because I'll likely move to the Roseville area soon in the next six weeks.... But when that one opens up....), I think it is a really easy thing to do.
in my current situation, I would drive to and from work daily for about a whole work week (I use about 30 miles a day), and then once a week I would get dinner over by the superchargers which will be on may way home if I go a slightly longer route.... I have wasted zero time as I had to eat anyway. It would save me 100 or maybe even 200 dollars a month, and it wouldn't inconvenience me at all. My car would only be there once a week for an hour, so it wouldn't really be too disruptive, and it would take one out of 8 stalls for an hour. I would be using .07% of the available supercharging ability of the station, and I wouldn't feel guilty.
while I don't really plan on doing that, I really don't see it as a big deal in most places. It really would be more hindering when this is employed by people who use that whole range daily, but I can't blame them either, because they are likely paying $25 a day in electricity. That's $500 a month, which is huge. Those same people were likely paying $600 a month or more for gas for the same driving in an ice. Now by switching to a model s, they can save nearly enough to pay the monthly payment on an s60.
no point fighting it, because as there are more on the road, this will happen frequently.
tesla put the superchargers out there to enable road trips, but not solely for road trips.
quite frankly, while I don't know if I will switch to this method when vacaville opens up (probably a moot point because I'll likely move to the Roseville area soon in the next six weeks.... But when that one opens up....), I think it is a really easy thing to do.
in my current situation, I would drive to and from work daily for about a whole work week (I use about 30 miles a day), and then once a week I would get dinner over by the superchargers which will be on may way home if I go a slightly longer route.... I have wasted zero time as I had to eat anyway. It would save me 100 or maybe even 200 dollars a month, and it wouldn't inconvenience me at all. My car would only be there once a week for an hour, so it wouldn't really be too disruptive, and it would take one out of 8 stalls for an hour. I would be using .07% of the available supercharging ability of the station, and I wouldn't feel guilty.
while I don't really plan on doing that, I really don't see it as a big deal in most places. It really would be more hindering when this is employed by people who use that whole range daily, but I can't blame them either, because they are likely paying $25 a day in electricity. That's $500 a month, which is huge. Those same people were likely paying $600 a month or more for gas for the same driving in an ice. Now by switching to a model s, they can save nearly enough to pay the monthly payment on an s60.
no point fighting it, because as there are more on the road, this will happen frequently.
tesla put the superchargers out there to enable road trips, but not solely for road trips.
No. You paid for the superchargesr. "Free for life". "Free to use it as much as you like". This money was paid , real money, to crowdfund the supercharger network, which includes the solar arrays for free sustainable energy. You paid for I it. You have the right to use it as much as you'd like for any purpose whatsoever, including free energy from the sun and to avoid charging at home since that power likely comes from a fossil fuel burning plant. Tesla's purpose is all about helping sustainable energy and travel. How are we going to achieve that if we continue to "fuel" the cars from coal burning power plants? If anything, Tesla would be encouraging this. It would seem contradictory otherwise.
Great find! This is what I get for speculating and not going back to the source and you know... reading. Glad I could stoke some "lively" discussion though.
This is a silly argument. Use the Superchargers however you want but trying to use that as justification is just silly, especially when it comes down to it the reason it is being done is to not have to pay for it on your electric bill. I do wonder though how some of these posters who have no problem with people using them instead of charging at home will feel when they start having to wait an hour to use it when they actually need them.
I think we should wait until we know it is a problem. My guess is most folks will tire of using a SC to do their daily charge. Sitting at an SC is boring.
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