Supercharger Battery Locations

[airj1012]

Do we know (roughly) how many Supercharger locations have peak shaving batteries? I imagine there are only a few locations, probably all located in CA, that have these batteries as Tesla began to test their peak shaving algorithms. Any thoughts on if new locations are getting these batteries? I'm not sure that new locations are receiving these batteries and curious to what the limiting factor might be. Battery output limitations (would have to wait for Gigafactory) or support from multiple utilities which might increase with the residential battery program? Thanks.

 

[Saghost]

Do we know (roughly) how many Supercharger locations have peak shaving batteries? I imagine there are only a few locations, probably all located in CA, that have these batteries as Tesla began to test their peak shaving algorithms. Any thoughts on if new locations are getting these batteries? I'm not sure that new locations are receiving these batteries and curious to what the limiting factor might be. Battery output limitations (would have to wait for Gigafactory) or support from multiple utilities which might increase with the residential battery program? Thanks.

I'll have to dig for it when I get home, but there's a presentation from Straubel last year on YouTube where he says they are installing the 400 kWh battery pallets at 'nearly all' Superchargers.

 

[Rocky_H]

I can't quite find it now on the TeslaMotors forum, but someone had listed the Supercharger sites that have battery systems connected to them, and I think it's only two places.

 

[dbfish]

I thought Tejon was first, but can't find a link.

Hawthorne
Supercharger - Hawthorne Expansion - Enormous - Page 13

Barstow
California - Barstow Supercharger News - Page 27

 

[trils0n]

Gilroy has a battery as well.

 

[miimura]

Mojave has a battery too. However, recent pictures show that it is not active. The disconnect was locked in the off position.

Supercharger - Mojave (went LIVE on 03-27-2015) - Page 9

 

[CHG-ON]

What is peak shaving?

Thanks

 

[Robert.Boston]

What is peak shaving?

Thanks

Peak shaving is shifting use of grid power so that you are either (a) smoothing your own demand over time or (b) reducing your demand during system peak hours. Strategy (a) is valuable when a customer is charged, in part, on its peak usage--fairly common among commercial accounts. Strategy (b) is useful when a customer pays for power on a time-of-use basis, so reducing power use during these peak times is valuable.

 

[Chris TX]

I imagine these won't go at every, or even most, locations. It all depends on how the power bill is set up. I used to program automation controllers that would cycle industrial facilities back online in the case of a power outage or emergency shutdown. The goal was to power the equipment back up in a way that didn't spike the power up. Some commercial power suppliers will bill based on spikes in a addition to kWh. Those spikes can get really pricy, regardless of the kWh consumption.

If there are SC locations that do not have spike penalties, I imagine they wouldn't get the peak shaving batteries.

 

[Robert.Boston]

The demand charges are a real killer. My friend who owns the nearby parking garage with the CHAdeMO unit has seen a substantial bill impact from having 50 kW added on top of his building's normal usage, particularly because the CHAdeMO is lightly used. The garage is mostly energy self-sufficient, owing to a lot of solar panels, so this demand charge stands out all the more. (The CHAdeMO is mostly used by hotel guests, who show up after sunset.)

To give you a sense of scale, our utility charges (under Rate Medium General Service-Primary) $10.00/kW in July & August and $9.32/kW in other months, so his cost for the first car charging at 50kW is $500 (plus the energy cost). All the other charging sessions that month are then free of demand charges, so he needs to have a lot of charging sessions for this to make sense economically.

A typical 6-bay Supercharger configuration, under this rate structure, could have 3 x 135kW = 405 kW peak usage, or $4,050. Since the average use at Superchargers is way below the peak use, a sufficiently sized battery could slash that figure by a factor of 10. $3,600/month buys a lot of battery.

 

[Cottonwood]

The demand charges are a real killer. My friend who owns the nearby parking garage with the CHAdeMO unit has seen a substantial bill impact from having 50 kW added on top of his building's normal usage, particularly because the CHAdeMO is lightly used. The garage is mostly energy self-sufficient, owing to a lot of solar panels, so this demand charge stands out all the more. (The CHAdeMO is mostly used by hotel guests, who show up after sunset.)

To give you a sense of scale, our utility charges (under Rate Medium General Service-Primary) $10.00/kW in July & August and $9.32/kW in other months, so his cost for the first car charging at 50kW is $500 (plus the energy cost). All the other charging sessions that month are then free of demand charges, so he needs to have a lot of charging sessions for this to make sense economically.

A typical 6-bay Supercharger configuration, under this rate structure, could have 3 x 135kW = 405 kW peak usage, or $4,050. Since the average use at Superchargers is way below the peak use, a sufficiently sized battery could slash that figure by a factor of 10. $3,600/month buys a lot of battery.

When I tried out my CHAdeMO at the Nissan Dealer in Boulder. I was surprised that the charge rate was only 20 kW. I asked about that and the EV salesman immediately replied that they had turned down the max charge rate from 50 kW to 20 kW to reduce demand charges. That is in Colorado where the Demand Charges are only $5/kWh. The Nissan dealer made this charge rate reduction choice to save $150 a month!

You are very correct for the reasoning for why "Peak Shaving" is useful for Tesla Superchargers, but a little off in the calculations. The Superchargers are about 90% efficient, so that means each Supercharger Cabinet needs about 150 kW AC in to produce 135 kW DC out. Using those numbers, a 6 bay Supercharger could have a peak demand of 450 kW and demand charges of $4,500 per month at your rates. Think about the 12-bay sites; that would be 900 kW and $9,000 per month for demand charges.

 

[CHG-ON]

Ah. Got it and didn't realize that I am doing exactly that. Who knew I was that smart? Clearly not me!

Thanks!

Peak shaving is shifting use of grid power so that you are either (a) smoothing your own demand over time or (b) reducing your demand during system peak hours. Strategy (a) is valuable when a customer is charged, in part, on its peak usage--fairly common among commercial accounts. Strategy (b) is useful when a customer pays for power on a time-of-use basis, so reducing power use during these peak times is valuable.