Reporting a Supercharger problem is a pain in the butt!

[Fourdoor]

On my latest road trip, I plugged in to charge at a V3 supercharger and I was only getting 120 KW (I was at a low SOC, with a preconditioned battery), so I unplugged from 1C and plugged into 2B assuming that there was a problem with that cabinet... and got the same results. As pack voltage went up, the charging speed slowly crept up until it peaked and started the normal ramp down. Using some math, it looked like the units at that location were limited to 300 amps of current (V3 should peak at dang near 700 amps). So, I looked in the app and couldn't find any way to report the problem, I then googled it and got a customer service number. After waiting on hold for around half an hour I finally talked to a customer service rep who seemed shocked that anyone would bother to report a problem with a station after they had completed charging, and continued their journey (I started the call while I was charging).

Do other people not report when they have an obvious problem like this? Or do they try, and give up after being left on hold for half an hour?

Keith

 

[jcanoe]

On my latest road trip, I plugged in to charge at a V3 supercharger and I was only getting 120 KW (I was at a low SOC, with a preconditioned battery), so I unplugged from 1C and plugged into 2B assuming that there was a problem with that cabinet... and got the same results. As pack voltage went up, the charging speed slowly crept up until it peaked and started the normal ramp down. Using some math, it looked like the units at that location were limited to 300 amps of current (V3 should peak at dang near 700 amps). So, I looked in the app and couldn't find any way to report the problem, I then googled it and got a customer service number. After waiting on hold for around half an hour I finally talked to a customer service rep who seemed shocked that anyone would bother to report a problem with a station after they had completed charging, and continued their journey (I started the call while I was charging).

Do other people not report when they have an obvious problem like this? Or do they try, and give up after being left on hold for half an hour?

Keith

The means of reporting your Supercharger charging experience is buried in the Telsa app. Under My Account, open Recent Supercharger sessions. There is an option to provide feedback to Tesla on your experience with this Supercharger location. (If possible, make a note of the Supercharger that was not functioning as expected, broken or damaged.)

 

[Cosmacelf]

Wouldn’t Tesla‘s SC central monitoring already know about such a degradation anyways?

 

[RTPEV]

On my latest road trip, I plugged in to charge at a V3 supercharger and I was only getting 120 KW (I was at a low SOC, with a preconditioned battery), so I unplugged from 1C and plugged into 2B assuming that there was a problem with that cabinet... and got the same results. As pack voltage went up, the charging speed slowly crept up until it peaked and started the normal ramp down. Using some math, it looked like the units at that location were limited to 300 amps of current (V3 should peak at dang near 700 amps). So, I looked in the app and couldn't find any way to report the problem, I then googled it and got a customer service number. After waiting on hold for around half an hour I finally talked to a customer service rep who seemed shocked that anyone would bother to report a problem with a station after they had completed charging, and continued their journey (I started the call while I was charging).

Do other people not report when they have an obvious problem like this? Or do they try, and give up after being left on hold for half an hour?

I personally would not wait. Common belief is that Tesla can monitor this kind of issue remotely (and for this kind of thing, I do believe that--other situations such as broken handles or physically damaged or blocked pedestals, I'm not so sure of).

However, one question back to you: how full was the site when you were charging?

I know the common belief is that V3 is not power limited, but that is not actually true. There is a site-wide limit constrained by the amount of power coming in from the grid (unless there is also local storage or a solar canopy, but this is not that common). So it is possible for a V3 site to "saturate" if it is busy. Each charging cabinet is only capable of pulling in 575 KVA from the grid, and while this can be shared between cabinets, that means that for example an 8-stall site will max out at 1150 kW (it may be further limited by the size of the transformer on site, which may in fact be even smaller, like 750 KVA).

If there were 7 vehicles at the site, and you were unlucky enough such that all were trying to pull over 150kW, you would probably notice reduced power at the site.

Statistically this would be uncommon, but not impossible. And like I said, some 8-stall sites only have a 750 KVA transformer, which would mean as few as 4 cars could result in reduced power.

 

[RayK]

A couple of years ago I found a Supercharger that wasn't working at the lot I normally use. I moved to another stall and contacted Support. As far as I remember, it was fairly easy to find a phone number; not so easy nowdays. Anyway, I told them there was a problem and they said it was already noted and that I didn't need to call it in if I found another bad stall, that they can monitor the equipment remotely.

A few months ago, at the same location, there was a stall which didn't work. Again, I moved to another one. While I was charging, I saw someone backing into the broken stall so I rolled down my window to tell them it wasn't working. He already knew - he was Tesla Service (but wasn't in a marked Tesla service car).

As far as knowing if a stall is semi-functional, sorta working but not up to the usual standard, I don't know if they can tell. If they can see the amount of power flowing and what the SoC is for the vehicle being charged, then they should be able to put two-and-two together.

 

[brainhouston]

The means of reporting your Supercharger charging experience is buried in the Telsa app. Under My Account, open Recent Supercharger sessions. There is an option to provide feedback to Tesla on your experience with this Supercharger location. (If possible, make a note of the Supercharger that was not functioning as expected, broken or damaged.)

does this only work after a successful session?
what if none of chargers worked n u never been to that location before..? (worst case but i'm curious...)

 

[jcanoe]

does this only work after a successful session?
what if none of chargers worked n u never been to that location before..? (worst case but i'm curious...)

Works like this:

 

[Zythryn]

Do they no longer put the phone number right on the charging pedestals?

 

[ucmndd]

Remember the Tesla mantra - all user input is error.

They don’t want to speak to you about an issue like this. There are dozens of different reasons why your charging session could have been slow. The ones they can fix they ostensibly already know about.

They really don’t want to talk to you on the phone because that’s expensive. Just move on next time or use the app feedback referenced upthread.

 

[Fourdoor]

I personally would not wait. Common belief is that Tesla can monitor this kind of issue remotely (and for this kind of thing, I do believe that--other situations such as broken handles or physically damaged or blocked pedestals, I'm not so sure of).

However, one question back to you: how full was the site when you were charging?

I know the common belief is that V3 is not power limited, but that is not actually true. There is a site-wide limit constrained by the amount of power coming in from the grid (unless there is also local storage or a solar canopy, but this is not that common). So it is possible for a V3 site to "saturate" if it is busy. Each charging cabinet is only capable of pulling in 575 KVA from the grid, and while this can be shared between cabinets, that means that for example an 8-stall site will max out at 1150 kW (it may be further limited by the size of the transformer on site, which may in fact be even smaller, like 750 KVA).

If there were 7 vehicles at the site, and you were unlucky enough such that all were trying to pull over 150kW, you would probably notice reduced power at the site.

Statistically this would be uncommon, but not impossible. And like I said, some 8-stall sites only have a 750 KVA transformer, which would mean as few as 4 cars could result in reduced power.

To answer your question, there were only myself and one other car, one of the reasons I was able to quickly and easily switch from the 1C dispenser to 2B is that there was hardly anyone there. I know about the "whole site" power limit, and in my case it was not a factor, but I should have mentioned that for clarity in my original post.

Keith

 

[Fourdoor]

Remember the Tesla mantra - all user input is error.

They don’t want to speak to you about an issue like this. There are dozens of different reasons why your charging session could have been slow. The ones they can fix they ostensibly already know about.

They really don’t want to talk to you on the phone because that’s expensive. Just move on next time or use the app feedback referenced upthread.

Well, per my phone conversation with them, they did not know about the issue and were surprised that anyone would bother to repot it. So, if I followed your advice it would have remained functional but at reduced capacity for who knows how long before they figured it out?

Personally, I love the reliability of the supercharger network, so when there is a problem, it really sticks out! Sort of like if you use an Electrify America station and DON'T encounter a problem it sticks out

Keith

 

[DblOSmith]

The means of reporting your Supercharger charging experience is buried in the Telsa app. Under My Account, open Recent Supercharger sessions. There is an option to provide feedback to Tesla on your experience with this Supercharger location. (If possible, make a note of the Supercharger that was not functioning as expected, broken or damaged.)

Thanks for the info! But, I can't find it on my android app. Are your instructions for iphone?

 

[brainhouston]

It's under account>charging>history for me on my Android. Right at the top it says, how was ur last charging session.

 

[DblOSmith]

It's under account>charging>history for me on my Android. Right at the top it says, how was ur last charging session.

I had to update the app... ...but I still don't see where it says "how was your last charging session". hmm....

 

[M CARLING]

I personally would not wait. Common belief is that Tesla can monitor this kind of issue remotely (and for this kind of thing, I do believe that--other situations such as broken handles or physically damaged or blocked pedestals, I'm not so sure of).

However, one question back to you: how full was the site when you were charging?

I know the common belief is that V3 is not power limited, but that is not actually true. There is a site-wide limit constrained by the amount of power coming in from the grid (unless there is also local storage or a solar canopy, but this is not that common). So it is possible for a V3 site to "saturate" if it is busy. Each charging cabinet is only capable of pulling in 575 KVA from the grid, and while this can be shared between cabinets, that means that for example an 8-stall site will max out at 1150 kW (it may be further limited by the size of the transformer on site, which may in fact be even smaller, like 750 KVA).

If there were 7 vehicles at the site, and you were unlucky enough such that all were trying to pull over 150kW, you would probably notice reduced power at the site.

Statistically this would be uncommon, but not impossible. And like I said, some 8-stall sites only have a 750 KVA transformer, which would mean as few as 4 cars could result in reduced power.

Transformers can safely operate well above (sometimes even two to three times) the rated capacity. Two problems arise with operating a transformer beyond rated capacity: inefficiency due to flux leakage and, if pushed beyond where flux leakage becomes significant, degradation of the transformer oil due to thermal stresses, which means either more frequent oil changes or reduced service life. The rating of a transformer is the highest power level (rounded off) at which flux leakage is approximately zero. So transformer rating is not the limiting factor for supercharging speeds, even with all the stalls in use. The utility will have three cut-out fuses (one for each phase) on the primary side of the transformer for two purposes: to provide a way to switch off power to the transformer without affecting other customers and to protect the distribution circuit from fault conditions like short circuit or ground fault arising within the transformer. (There should be circuit breakers to protect the transformer and the meter from downstream faults.) Those fuses will be rated much higher than the transformers rating because their job is not to protect the transformer. All customer equipment on the secondary side of the transformer, operating at maximum capacity (not counting fault conditions) should never be able to blow the utility’s fuses on the primary side.

There is a big white Tesla cabinet for each set of four superchargers. I don’t know all the details about what’s inside, but I’m confident that it rectifies AC into DC. I’m also confident that this is where any limitation takes place that doesn’t allow the car to draw as much current as it wants. It will have a rated maximum current that essentially means that Tesla promises the utility that the cabinet can never draw more than the rated current except under fault conditions. This is the only logical place for Tesla to implement load limiting, if I’m correct in understanding that, other than the meter, there is no equipment between these cabinets and the transformer.

 

[RTPEV]

Transformers can safely operate well above (sometimes even two to three times) the rated capacity. Two problems arise with operating a transformer beyond rated capacity: inefficiency due to flux leakage and, if pushed beyond where flux leakage becomes significant, degradation of the transformer oil due to thermal stresses, which means either more frequent oil changes or reduced service life. The rating of a transformer is the highest power level (rounded off) at which flux leakage is approximately zero. So transformer rating is not the limiting factor for supercharging speeds, even with all the stalls in use. The utility will have three cut-out fuses (one for each phase) on the primary side of the transformer for two purposes: to provide a way to switch off power to the transformer without affecting other customers and to protect the distribution circuit from fault conditions like short circuit or ground fault arising within the transformer. (There should be circuit breakers to protect the transformer and the meter from downstream faults.) Those fuses will be rated much higher than the transformers rating because their job is not to protect the transformer. All customer equipment on the secondary side of the transformer, operating at maximum capacity (not counting fault conditions) should never be able to blow the utility’s fuses on the primary side.

There is a big white Tesla cabinet for each set of four superchargers. I don’t know all the details about what’s inside, but I’m confident that it rectifies AC into DC. I’m also confident that this is where any limitation takes place that doesn’t allow the car to draw as much current as it wants. It will have a rated maximum current that essentially means that Tesla promises the utility that the cabinet can never draw more than the rated current except under fault conditions. This is the only logical place for Tesla to implement load limiting, if I’m correct in understanding that, other than the meter, there is no equipment between these cabinets and the transformer.

All that may be true, but we don't know what Tesla's policy is for oversubscribing a site. If the transformer is rated at 750KVA, do they allow 750kW to be pulled at the site? 1000? 1500? Is there a time factor applied (it's allowable to over draw by X kW for Y minutes)? Without knowing those details, we can't just make assumptions that a given site will exceed the transformer rating.

The charging cabinet you mention (assuming V3/V4 sites here) does do AC/DC rectification as well as managing the max current that each pedestal connected to it can access, but there is site-wide switchgear (or almost site-wide -- some of the mega sites (>28 stalls) have multiple switchgear components) that in addition to providing the main breakers (as well as switches for each charging cabinet I believe) are likely responsible for managing the overall draw from the grid that likely communicate to each of the charging cabinets, regulating their draw from the shared DC bus as well as each cabinet's AC draw from the transformer (grid).

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Well, per my phone conversation with them, they did not know about the issue and were surprised that anyone would bother to repot it. So, if I followed your advice it would have remained functional but at reduced capacity for who knows how long before they figured it out?

Personally, I love the reliability of the supercharger network, so when there is a problem, it really sticks out! Sort of like if you use an Electrify America station and DON'T encounter a problem it sticks out

Keith

Tesla used to have a number, but hid it. Customer service is money, plus in most cases they can figure things out from data if they care to.

Side note: my EA experience with my Kona has been:
1) user error* then hanging charger, resolved by a fast-answering customer support rebooting charger and giving me a free charge. Price was by time but I was able to charge free to 96% while we had lunch. So, bad and good.
2) no problem
3) no problem
4) no problem
5) no problem
6) 5 minute wait. 1 of 4 not working. (EA has no power sharing on the chargers so I couldn't plug in to the same charger as a Bolt even though the charger can output more currrent than we can take combined)
7) About a 10 minute wait, I should have driven on to Kennebunk and used the Chargepoints.
8) No problem
Of course, I can only get 75kW, so I'm not pushing the chargers hard. Somebody reported a power problem with a 350kW on PlugShare at a site that I was using 150kW.

My Magic Dock experience at Brewster, NY:
1) In the app I accidentally went into an instruction mode and was confused because the list of stall numbers didn't match. Figured that out but then the app was telling me to press start charge, but that was disabled and some kind of "Add Billing Details" or such button was enabled. (Before the trip I'd updated my credit card in my account so was surprised). So I entered my address and then the start charge was enabled. So, the app could be better.
After that, and pushing properly to release the adapter I started charging first time.
2) Didn't start first plug. I repeated the selection process and it worked.

* I don't have Plug & Charge, and they didn't make it obvious which charger you were using. I was looking at the screen and I'd have had to look up to find the charger number. I am clearly not alone as they have now added stickers to the chargers next to the screen to make the charger number more obvious.

 

[M CARLING]

All that may be true, but we don't know what Tesla's policy is for oversubscribing a site. If the transformer is rated at 750KVA, do they allow 750kW to be pulled at the site? 1000? 1500? Is there a time factor applied (it's allowable to over draw by X kW for Y minutes)? Without knowing those details, we can't just make assumptions that a given site will exceed the transformer rating.

The charging cabinet you mention (assuming V3/V4 sites here) does do AC/DC rectification as well as managing the max current that each pedestal connected to it can access, but there is site-wide switchgear (or almost site-wide -- some of the mega sites (>28 stalls) have multiple switchgear components) that in addition to providing the main breakers (as well as switches for each charging cabinet I believe) are likely responsible for managing the overall draw from the grid that likely communicate to each of the charging cabinets, regulating their draw from the shared DC bus as well as each cabinet's AC draw from the transformer (grid).

A time factor as you suggested is possible, especially if the transformer is owned by Tesla. If the transformer is owned by the utility, then there is probably a simple limit and it won’t be very different from the rated capacity of the transformer. I think Tesla probably owns the transformer at most sites in North America, but it will depend on the policies of the utility.

Tesla won’t want to go far beyond the rated capacity because they don’t want inefficiency because they are paying for the electricity and not passing charges on to the drivers for any inefficiency. Let’s take a 750 kVA transformer as an example. If Tesla will put a 750 kVA load on the secondary side, then the primary side will generate a load on the distribution circuit of about 755 kVA. If Tesla will put a 1000 kVA load on the secondary side, then the primary side might put an approximately 1100 kVA load on the distribution circuit (depending on how conservatively the transformer has been rated). If Tesla would (and I believe they never would) put a 1500 kVA load on the secondary, then the primary might put very roughly about a 2000 kVA load on the distribution circuit. That won’t blow the utility’s fuses on the primary side of the transformer, but who would pay for those very roughly about 500 kVA of losses? Why would Tesla want to take that loss? From Tesla’s perspective, it’s better to throttle charging rates.

Edited for a typo.