Supercharger congestion problem ideas.

[Dan Detweiler]

I bet if they were charged for leaving their car at the pump after filling they would change their habits. It's really apples and oranges at this point. The gas shortage examples prove the point that if it becomes problem people won't do it. Also, te gas shortag thing really isn't relevant as it is not a daily issue.

Dan

 

[bikeandsail]

I live in a part of the country where I have never seen a supercharger that did not have available space. That said people are creatures of habit and I am 100% for fining anyone staying past 100% charge. They are not intended to be parking spaces.

 

[Red Sage]

People will abuse it and make lame excuses for not moving their car.
Keep it simple and move the car as soon as its done charging. No exceptions needed.

I consider myself old, fat, slow, and out of shape... But I'm still in vastly better condition than most people my age, or older, and many people who are younger than I am. It astounds me the minimal amount of physical effort it takes to make most people start breathing hard.

So, in situations where Superchargers are not so conveniently located, for a lot of people the trek across a parking lot in one direction, let alone both, is the functional equivalent of a marathon. I don't know anyone who can run two marathons a day. So, yeah... they are 'lame'. You make the trek from the Supercharger to the Wendy's, Golden Corral, Arby's, or Carl's Jr and you arrive there TIRED. You place an order and sit down. It just may take a while to catch your breath, then convince your body to take that long, hard trail again.

Heck, I know people who need around 15 minutes to cross 100 yards on their own power. I know people who have not covered 100 yards under their own power at once at any time during their adult lives. So asking those people to do it TWICE, practically back-to-back on the SAME DAY is nigh impossible. This is why exceptions, concessions, and grace periods are needed. Otherwise, everyone might as well eat, crap, and pee in their cars while Supercharging. And that would get rather messy. Stinky too.

Now, if you pardon me... I'm about to go take a four mile walk. Because I can.

 

[tsla007]

Problem is resolved. Pay up. Now that won't matter if you're rich like me. I'll shrug off a fee of 30 bucks easily. Now that wouldn't be nice or respectful of others. I suggested (tweeted elon) to change all chargers to snake charging with a script that will auto kick on if it is a sc address (mac address)-once charged the snake charger will detach and the car will park at the next closest parking space that isn't a charger space. Problem resolved.

 

[mhan00]

Problem is resolved. Pay up. Now that won't matter if you're rich like me. I'll shrug off a fee of 30 bucks easily. Now that wouldn't be nice or respectful of others. I suggested (tweeted elon) to change all chargers to snake charging with a script that will auto kick on if it is a sc address (mac address)-once charged the snake charger will detach and the car will park at the next closest parking space that isn't a charger space. Problem resolved.

Problem solved? LOL. There are a bunch of things they need to overcome before that's possible. And 99 percent of the current cars on the road will never be capable of doing that (that percentage will drop as more AP 2.0 cars are delivered).

 

[dsvick]

So, in situations where Superchargers are not so conveniently located, for a lot of people the trek across a parking lot in one direction, let alone both, is the functional equivalent of a marathon. I don't know anyone who can run two marathons a day.

Go hang out with some trail runners in your area. I'll guarantee you there are few there that run ultras and anything over a 50 miler is more than two marathons!

 

[Jayc]

Problem is resolved. Pay up. Now that won't matter if you're rich like me. I'll shrug off a fee of 30 bucks easily.

Ha ha very funny. But seriously, Tesla should reinvest the funds collected to increase super charger count and that way we can be a bit more tolerant of abusers.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Ha ha very funny. But seriously, Tesla should reinvest the funds collected to increase super charger count and that way we can be a bit more tolerant of abusers.

I agree, however a golden business rule is to never allow a rule to be abused or bent or broken.

Best business practice = Change the rule.

Companies thrive on being non-tolerant. Best thing to do is to move the goalposts to fit your desired outcome.

Never show weakness concerning any rule.....even if the rule is weak.

 

[Red Sage]

For those who are so certain that 'abuse' of Superchargers is, has been, or soon will be rampant...? Please let us know what actions you personally find 'abusive'. I have a sneaky suspicion that what I would consider 'use' others would call 'abuse'.

 

[tsla007]

I left my S plugged in for 42 hrs one day. Walked everywhere and didn't think of moving it. Oh well. There were 7 other chargers available.

 

[JeffK]

for 42 hrs one day.

Longest day ever....

Typically mine only have 24 hours.

 

[bikeandsail]

For those who are so certain that 'abuse' of Superchargers is, has been, or soon will be rampant...? Please let us know what actions you personally find 'abusive'. I have a sneaky suspicion that what I would consider 'use' others would call 'abuse'.

If you car is parked at a supercharger and not actively charging, I would consider that abuse.

 

[S3XY]

I see a problem with the no harm no foul rule. If you start charging your car with a couple open spaces and wander off to eat at a restaurant. Then those slots get filled. You would think you're fine and don't need to rush but you will get dinged if your car finishes charging.
I guess it just comes down to being responsible and checking your SOC and the status of the SC's. It would help if Tesla would provide SC status so we could keep an eye out remotely.

 

[Jayc]

Idle charges should apply regardless of extra conditions. I'm afraid Tesla has got it wrong by not having a clear cut definition of what is wrong and right at superchargers. It comes down to fundamentals. How is Tesla going to police this if the decision between right and wrong depends on conditions at any given location at any given time.

Imagine having pedestrian crossing lights near a school with an open rule saying it's okay for motorists to ignore red lights if there is no one crossing or waiting to cross the road. There is a reason why some rules are simply black or white .

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Idle charges should apply regardless of extra conditions. I'm afraid Tesla has got it wrong by not having a clear cut definition of what is wrong and right at superchargers. It comes down to fundamentals. How is Tesla going to police this if the decision between right and wrong depends on conditions at any given location at any given time.

Imagine having pedestrian crossing lights near a school with an open rule saying it's okay for motorists to ignore red lights if there is no one crossing or waiting to cross the road. There is a reason why some rules are simply black or white .

Maybe we need a "pool rules" sign at every Supercharger to let users know what is expected of them.

In the States and most provinces, you can turn right (or left onto a one way) on a red light after stopping and confirming it's safe to continue. That's not quite the same as your red light example but even the red light rules aren't "simply black and white"!

 

[Red Sage]

Idle charges should apply regardless of extra conditions. I'm afraid Tesla has got it wrong by not having a clear cut definition of what is wrong and right at superchargers. It comes down to fundamentals. How is Tesla going to police this if the decision between right and wrong depends on conditions at any given location at any given time.

Imagine having pedestrian crossing lights near a school with an open rule saying it's okay for motorists to ignore red lights if there is no one crossing or waiting to cross the road. There is a reason why some rules are simply black or white .

The fundamentals have been defined: 1) Don't be a dick; and 2) Be courteous to others.

 

[JeffK]

Idle charges should apply regardless of extra conditions. I'm afraid Tesla has got it wrong by not having a clear cut definition of what is wrong and right at superchargers. It comes down to fundamentals. How is Tesla going to police this if the decision between right and wrong depends on conditions at any given location at any given time.

Imagine having pedestrian crossing lights near a school with an open rule saying it's okay for motorists to ignore red lights if there is no one crossing or waiting to cross the road. There is a reason why some rules are simply black or white .

It might be ok if the app handles it. The status of the other stalls really only matter when charging is complete. Therefore, unless you are at your car you cannot know the status of the other stalls at the moment it is actually important. The solution I propose is having the app tell you how important it is to get back to your car. At that moment you can make an informed choice.

Around where I live we have pedestrian lights, but they only flash when pedestrians trigger it. Likewise, if the app were to provide an indicator of supercharging stall status when relevant then it's pretty clear when it's necessary to get back to the car.

As for how they will police it, that's pretty easy. The data is already being collected. one can simply check timestamps of given events.

if (now >= (charging_complete_time + 5 minutes) && stalls >= 75% occupancy) {

balance += fee

}

 

[Jayc]

The fundamentals have been defined: 1) Don't be a dick; and 2) Be courteous to others.

It came to the point that Elon had to get involved to impose the rulebook so I am afraid the definitions are still not clear to some - so it seems.

I can give many examples but this is a matter of simple accountability - our local library had a rule that books can be kept for two weeks but there were no penalties for those who violated it. The first page had a good explanation as to why they have this rule and to be considerate to other library members who would want to lend the book once is returned. But no, some members decided it did not matter even if they broke the rules. Then the rules were tightened and now as soon as it exceeded two weeks, a text message+email is sent out followed by penalty fees for every late day and bingo - problem solved.

We need rules that are clear cut, easy to police, and works every single time and those who ignore them have to be held accountable - that is the simplest way to guarantee fairness.

 

[Jayc]

As for how they will police it, that's pretty easy. The data is already being collected. one can simply check timestamps of given events.

if (now >= (charging_complete_time + 5 minutes) && stalls >= 75% occupancy) {

balance += fee

}

Aha but occupancy is not a clear cut constant for any particular charge session, it's an instantaneous value so your condition expression would have to be something like this.

if (now >= (charging_complete_time + 5 minutes) && stalls >= 75% get_average_occupancy(charging date, charging_start_time, charging_complete_time) ) {

Imagine figuring that out if you have to challenge the fine

 

[jnt76]

I was charging my Model X yesterday and I got a noticed on my Tesla App on my phone that my car will be done charging within 15 minutes and if I didn't remove my car that I will be charged. I finished my shopping within that time frame and was able to remove my car even though there's no other Tesla around. Officer Elon is on patrol.