Supercharger Extension Cable

[RayK]

But if I arrive in a Ford and pull forward into an empty stall between two Teslas, when the Tesla to my left leaves I can use that plug before another Tesla occupies that stall to my left? That renders the stall just vacated by a Tesla as useless until I leave with my Ford. I might have to wait some time but better than waiting for an end stall or two adjacent stalls to be open.

Yes, but while you are waiting within that "empty" stall, that prevents another Tesla from using it. It's almost equivalent to ICEing and/or could run afoul of EV parking rules of taking up a space while not actively charging. There's really no good answer to having vehicles that have charge ports on the left front or right rear, use a standard layout Supercharger, one that has the charging pedestal at the middle end of the stall, slightly offset to the right, or those that have the pedestal in between stalls.

 

[bradtem]

But if I arrive in a Ford and pull forward into an empty stall between two Teslas, when the Tesla to my left leaves I can use that plug before another Tesla occupies that stall to my left? That renders the stall just vacated by a Tesla as useless until I leave with my Ford. I might have to wait some time but better than waiting for an end stall or two adjacent stalls to be open.

That would work for you but of course is quite selfish, and since you would need to be waiting by your car, you have to be a dick in front of everybody who is waiting in the line, which of course some people will do but there is some pressure not to.

If this becomes a problem, Tesla could prevent it. Tesla knows if cars are waiting at the station. It knows what cars are charging at what stalls, and what brand they are. So in this situation, Tesla could make the station not activate for you. Plus charge you idle fees for the stall you occupied without plugging in because it now knows how long you were there -- you had to occupy it immediately if there is a line. The first time you do this, it might just warn you, but do it again and it would charge you fees and not let you charge.

Or, as I wrote earlier, Tesla could just have the app/car just tell you which stall to use to maximize usage. It's in Tesla's interest, and the interest of all drivers. The only thing not in the interest of drivers is people have to start parking densely, they can't space out using every other stall when the station is in light use. We do like to do that but it's not a huge sacrifice if this is a problem.

 

[MacNeil]

That would work for you but of course is quite selfish, and since you would need to be waiting by your car, you have to be a dick in front of everybody who is waiting in the line, which of course some people will do but there is some pressure not to.

If this becomes a problem, Tesla could prevent it. Tesla knows if cars are waiting at the station. It knows what cars are charging at what stalls, and what brand they are. So in this situation, Tesla could make the station not activate for you. Plus charge you idle fees for the stall you occupied without plugging in because it now knows how long you were there -- you had to occupy it immediately if there is a line. The first time you do this, it might just warn you, but do it again and it would charge you fees and not let you charge.

Or, as I wrote earlier, Tesla could just have the app/car just tell you which stall to use to maximize usage. It's in Tesla's interest, and the interest of all drivers. The only thing not in the interest of drivers is people have to start parking densely, they can't space out using every other stall when the station is in light use. We do like to do that but it's not a huge sacrifice if this is a problem.

I completely agree with your comments about the "right thing to do" but if the alternative is to wait, for hours??, until two adjacent stalls are empty. I would probably try to avoid creating a scene with other drivers, probably try to head elsewhere to charge or keep my charge time to the absolute minimum needed to get where I was heading or to another charger. It seems like all brands will have equal rights to charge at a Supercharger so why would the Ford driver perhaps have to wait much, much longer than say a Tesla driver? The answer is probably along the lines you mention where stalls are assigned remotely in a manner that is fair to all drivers. (Or encouraging (requiring?) drivers without charge ports on left rear or front right to travel with the extension cable?)

 

[buckets0fun]

There is at least one company A2Z working on one.

https://a2zevshop.com/collections/u...cts/tesla-nacs-dc-supercharger-extension-cord

Wow $700 from EVBASE! The cord looks hefty, but not quite as thick as SC V2 cords. But they claim it can handle 350kw.

EVBASE CCS1 EV Extension Cord for Non-Tesla EVs Charging on Tesla "Magic Dock" Superchargers

Expected shipping date: the end of March 2024 Magic Dock too short to charge?Tesla forget to make a longer cable for non-tesla vehicle, we make it, for tesla supercharger with magic dock. you can parking anywhere to charger your Non- tesla EV in tesla supercharger. EXTEND YOUR CCS1 CABLE - This...

www.evbase.com

These are awesome.thanks for posting them.

One for towing with CT, one for towing with CCS vehicle. Will happily add them to the box of cords.

 

[bradtem]

I completely agree with your comments about the "right thing to do" but if the alternative is to wait, for hours??, until two adjacent stalls are empty. I would probably try to avoid creating a scene with other drivers, probably try to head elsewhere to charge or keep my charge time to the absolute minimum needed to get where I was heading or to another charger. It seems like all brands will have equal rights to charge at a Supercharger so why would the Ford driver perhaps have to wait much, much longer than say a Tesla driver? The answer is probably along the lines you mention where stalls are assigned remotely in a manner that is fair to all drivers. (Or encouraging (requiring?) drivers without charge ports on left rear or front right to travel with the extension cable?)

Tesla shows you how full every station is. If a station is near full, and you have a Ford type car, you might want to try for another station, or a CCS station, because you are very likely going to have to wait, or be an asshole at that station. If you have no other choice, you may decide to do that.

While I think Tesla should push drivers to pick stalls that improve sharing, at the very least they could tell Ford drivers, when they look at the app, how many stalls are available for a Ford driver. Right now Tesla estimates a wait time in the map, they can calculate the wait time differently if you are driving a Ford, and as such if you see that while the station is 75% full, it's all single slots, so you will have a 10 minute wait, or a 30 minute wait to not be a hog, you might decide to pick another station.

They could do the same for Tesla drivers. If a lot of Fords are there leaving spots a Tesla can't use, they can reduce the count of available stalls and change the wait time estimate for a Tesla or other cars using the stall on the same side.

Of course, if a Ford driver buys the extension cord, then they can say that, and the app can treat them as able to park in any stall that has a free charger on either side of it.

 

[ewoodrick]

I completely agree with your comments about the "right thing to do" but if the alternative is to wait, for hours??, until two adjacent stalls are empty. I would probably try to avoid creating a scene with other drivers, probably try to head elsewhere to charge or keep my charge time to the absolute minimum needed to get where I was heading or to another charger. It seems like all brands will have equal rights to charge at a Supercharger so why would the Ford driver perhaps have to wait much, much longer than say a Tesla driver? The answer is probably along the lines you mention where stalls are assigned remotely in a manner that is fair to all drivers. (Or encouraging (requiring?) drivers without charge ports on left rear or front right to travel with the extension cable?)

Let's get the verbiage correct.

"why would the Ford driver perhaps have to wait much, much longer than say a Tesla driver?"

should be

"why would the Ford driver perhaps have to wait much, much longer than say a TWO+ Tesla drivers?"

And it really could be the equivalent of 3 or even 4 dependent on how long the empty slot has to be empty.

But generally where's there's a busy Tesla Supercharger, there's a CCS within a mile or two.

 

[MacNeil]

Let's get the verbiage correct.

"why would the Ford driver perhaps have to wait much, much longer than say a Tesla driver?"

should be

"why would the Ford driver perhaps have to wait much, much longer than say a TWO+ Tesla drivers?"

And it really could be the equivalent of 3 or even 4 dependent on how long the empty slot has to be empty.

But generally where's there's a busy Tesla Supercharger, there's a CCS within a mile or two.

I guess the underlying question is whether access to a charger is in the order that the vehicle arrived at the Supercharger. The "TWO Tesla drivers" in your scenario presumably arrived at the Supercharger after the hypothetical Ford. (Teslas who were ahead of the Ford in the queue would not be delayed but ones arriving after the Ford could be inconvenienced.) The reference to a Ford is only an example; we do not own one or have any plans buy a Lightning but we do have an ID.4 that will presumably get Supercharger access in the next year or two. We do plan to get the retrofit and CCS adapter for our Model 3 (partly so that we have the option of using CCS chargers if and when that is a better option than a Supercharger).

 

[bradtem]

I guess the underlying question is whether access to a charger is in the order that the vehicle arrived at the Supercharger. The "TWO Tesla drivers" in your scenario presumably arrived at the Supercharger after the hypothetical Ford. (Teslas who were ahead of the Ford in the queue would not be delayed but ones arriving after the Ford could be inconvenienced.) The reference to a Ford is only an example; we do not own one or have any plans buy a Lightning but we do have an ID.4 that will presumably get Supercharger access in the next year or two. We do plan to get the retrofit and CCS adapter for our Model 3 (partly so that we have the option of using CCS chargers if and when that is a better option than a Supercharger).

Hopefully there won't be a lot of contention. Certainly there are Tesla drivers who will resent the appearance of any non-Teslas at the stations, and certainly of ones that will block a charger they aren't using. They might act, even if they got there after the Ford, to quickly move to the other stall, the one the Ford is about to take the right side charger of, and try to connect to it. They might try to express to the Ford driver how they are blocking 2 cars to use one spot.

But the reality is that a full supercharger with a line almost never has 2 adjacent spaces free at the same time. What will happen is single cars will pull out, and the Ford, though first in line, can't really use the spot. At best they could take it and not plug in, hoping the car to the left is going to leave soon.

Rather, what will have to happen is the Ford arrives when the station is not full and has no line, and has two adjacent stalls. They will then use the pair. After having done so, the station might be full, or fill up soon, and Teslas will arrive, and see the empty stall, and even try to back into it, to see that the Ford on the right is using the charger. They will then pull back out and wait. They could complain to the Ford driver, but she might not even be there to complain to.

Chances are nobody can use the stall, not even another Ford because a Tesla is in the next stall over. Unless all this is happening, as it should, at the end of the bank, making use of a parking space that happens to be to the right of the last stall. The empty last stall space will confuse but all chargers will be in use.

Ideally, as I said, Tesla and Ford apps will show the superchargers as having no available stall for your type of car, which will make you pick another charger.

 

[ewoodrick]

I completely agree with your comments about the "right thing to do" but if the alternative is to wait, for hours??, until two adjacent stalls are empty. I would probably try to avoid creating a scene with other drivers, probably try to head elsewhere to charge or keep my charge time to the absolute minimum needed to get where I was heading or to another charger. It seems like all brands will have equal rights to charge at a Supercharger so why would the Ford driver perhaps have to wait much, much longer than say a Tesla driver? The answer is probably along the lines you mention where stalls are assigned remotely in a manner that is fair to all drivers. (Or encouraging (requiring?) drivers without charge ports on left rear or front right to travel with the extension cable?)

If the stalls are that busy, there's nearly a 100% chance that there is a CCS charger within 5 minutes.

 

[AcuraDude]

It's going to be interesting when non tesla ev's start parallel parking at supercharger stalls. Alot of ride sharing drivers and rental car agencies (using public infrastructure for ev fleet charging) will probably have the first come first serve mentality and could care less about charging etiquette.

I think we still have about one year (summer of 2025?) before all the other oem's get their adapters out and this starts to become an issue. By 2030, hopefully Walmart's new DCFC stations, Ionna network, and V4's (why are V3's still being deployed?) will make this issue a thing of the past. Until then, the next couple of years of supercharging could be ugly.

 

[ahardfsu]

It's going to be interesting when non tesla ev's start parallel parking at supercharger stalls. Alot of ride sharing drivers and rental car agencies (using public infrastructure for ev fleet charging) will probably have the first come first serve mentality and could care less about charging etiquette.

I think we still have about one year (summer of 2025?) before all the other oem's get their adapters out and this starts to become an issue. By 2030, hopefully Walmart's new DCFC stations, Ionna network, and V4's (why are V3's still being deployed?) will make this issue a thing of the past. Until then, the next couple of years of supercharging could be ugly.

I hear ya and I agree. The Chevy Bolt and Kia Niro ride share drivers already take a good number of the available CCS charging spots at CCS stations across various cities. I've encountered them on multiple occasions always charging to 100% and not thinking about the other people that have to charge to continue their trips. To top it off, the Bolt's max charge rate isn't great and those ride share drivers who have Bolts don't seem to understand that the charge curve gets worse the higher the SOC is. The ride share Bolts hogging SC spots is what I fear will happen when GM is given supercharger access in the coming weeks.

 

[bradtem]

I hear ya and I agree. The Chevy Bolt and Kia Niro ride share drivers already take a good number of the available CCS charging spots at CCS stations across various cities. I've encountered them on multiple occasions always charging to 100% and not thinking about the other people that have to charge to continue their trips. To top it off, the Bolt's max charge rate isn't great and those ride share drivers who have Bolts don't seem to understand that the charge curve gets worse the higher the SOC is. The ride share Bolts hogging SC spots is what I fear will happen when GM is given supercharger access in the coming weeks.

As you know, when stations are high usage, Tesla dials down your charge limit to 80%, though you can raise it again if you need to. I don't know if Tesla would be able to change the charge limit in a Bolt, but they could just stop charging and put an alert into the app explaining what has happened, possibly even charging extra money to go from 80% to 100%. I know in CCS, the car transmits its SoC to the station and these cars are still talking CCS to an SC. (I don't know if SC protocol communicates that, since Tesla has access to the car's computer directly.)

 

[ahardfsu]

As you know, when stations are high usage, Tesla dials down your charge limit to 80%, though you can raise it again if you need to. I don't know if Tesla would be able to change the charge limit in a Bolt, but they could just stop charging and put an alert into the app explaining what has happened, possibly even charging extra money to go from 80% to 100%. I know in CCS, the car transmits its SoC to the station and these cars are still talking CCS to an SC. (I don't know if SC protocol communicates that, since Tesla has access to the car's computer directly.)

Well, I hope that Tesla can do that to the Bolts and Niros. Bc if Tesla can't do it, I don't know how useful the superchargers in some of these cities will be to those of us on a road trip. It's no fun not being able to charge when there are 6 ride share bolts and niros charging to 100% while others are waiting.

 

[bradtem]

Well, I hope that Tesla can do that to the Bolts and Niros. Bc if Tesla can't do it, I don't know how useful the superchargers in some of these cities will be to those of us on a road trip. It's no fun not being able to charge when there are 6 ride share bolts and niros charging to 100% while others are waiting.

Well they certainly *can* do it, but I don't know if they will. For Teslas they just change your charge target and you can change it right back, even in the app. I will admit more than once to eating in a restaurant, and finding the car hit 80% or whatever level I needed, and increasing the charge level so I can have a bit more time to eat before I have to move the car -- sometimes the car is a 5 minute walk from the restaurant. I'm sure others have done this as well. I don't tend to do it if the station is full or has a line or anything, but you can get idle fees at 50% full. I would not find it unfair for Tesla to raise the rates to go from 90% to 100% at a station with a line. Though they could put in an exception for people who are on a road trip, who have programmed a destination far away which might well need that full charge. (Indeed you probably shouldn't do it otherwise, unless you have an LFP battery.) Yes, you could lie and program a fake destination, but Tesla will find out if you lied because you don't actually go there, and if you do that multiple times a penalty would be reasonable.

 

[ewoodrick]

Well, I hope that Tesla can do that to the Bolts and Niros. Bc if Tesla can't do it, I don't know how useful the superchargers in some of these cities will be to those of us on a road trip. It's no fun not being able to charge when there are 6 ride share bolts and niros charging to 100% while others are waiting.

Go look at the percentages of EVs on the road.

How full are your local Superchargers? How many options are near you? Do you charge at home?

 

[Watts_Up]

One issue will be that, while doing a long trip, you will plan to stop at a particular supercjharger
because this location has available chargers, but because of non-Tesla vehicles blocking two chargers
the supercharger might be full.

Better in this case to select older 120 kW superchargers, and to avoid "Superchargers Open to NACS"
especially during Holidays weekend.

Note: Maybe Tesla will be able to determine the real number of chargers available from he type of vehicles pluggin to it?

 

[ahardfsu]

Go look at the percentages of EVs on the road.

How full are your local Superchargers? How many options are near you? Do you charge at home?

I've only seen the percentages related to sales and EVs appear to represent 8% of new vehicle sales. I've had my Mach E since March 2022 and I've seen EvGo and EA stations increasingly. nearing/at capacity in the areas that I travel.

I charge at home on Saturdays when I'm done doing my weekly activities on a 48 amp Pulsar charger that's hard-wired to a 60 amp breaker.

My concern is when I visit my family who live about 3 hours/205 miles from where I live. My mom, whom I stay with when I visit nor any of my family members whom I see when I visit, have level 2 charging at their homes. So bc of that I have to stop at the local EvGo or EA station when I arrive. I'll typically charge to 75% or 80% and then trickle charge on an outdoor electrical outlet at mom's house so that I can reach 100% SOC for the return trip.

There is an EvGo station and a supercharger that are no more than 5 minutes from my mother's home. The EvGo station is typically full of ride share Chevy Bolt or Kia Niro drivers. As such there's usually a wait to use the chargers that aren't out of order.

Access to the supercharge near my mom's house does bring some relief. But most of the time when I pass that SC, but it appears to be 80% to 90% full at the same time that the EvGo station is, which leads me to believe that some of the drivers at the supercharger are likely ride share drivers.

The extension cable would be useful bc I could go to the supercharger without needing to figure out if a stall that I can use is available.