Supercharger Pricing Map?

[LoudMusic]

I understand the price for kwh can change at a location, but has anyone compiled a map of charging prices?

Looking at my history of charging I can see very distinct rate changes by region. I thought I had seen a map or even just a list of prices previously but I'm not finding it now.

 

[mociaf9]

I understand the price for kwh can change at a location, but has anyone compiled a map of charging prices?

Looking at my history of charging I can see very distinct rate changes by region. I thought I had seen a map or even just a list of prices previously but I'm not finding it now.

Maybe 3 or 4 years ago, Tesla had priced their superchargers by state in the US, i.e. all the superchargers in CA were the same price, all the stations in TX were the same price, etc. At that time, Tesla's information/support webpage on Supercharging had a drop-down list where you could select a state and it would tell you the price charged in that state. But then Tesla changed their pricing strategy and went to individual supercharger location pricing. Starting from that point, there has never been a way to see what the current price to supercharge at a given location is except by using the in-car navigation system on a Tesla. However, the webpage on supercharging that had had the state prices viewable before was updated to show the average price for supercharging across all locations in the US. Now that page no longer even does that.

 

[LoudMusic]

Maybe 3 or 4 years ago, Tesla had priced their superchargers by state in the US, i.e. all the superchargers in CA were the same price, all the stations in TX were the same price, etc. At that time, Tesla's information/support webpage on Supercharging had a drop-down list where you could select a state and it would tell you the price charged in that state. But then Tesla changed their pricing strategy and went to individual supercharger location pricing. Starting from that point, there has never been a way to see what the current price to supercharge at a given location is except by using the in-car navigation system on a Tesla. However, the webpage on supercharging that had had the state prices viewable before was updated to show the average price for supercharging across all locations in the US. Now that page no longer even does that.

That sounds kind of like shitty business practice to me. I wonder if a third party like Supercharge.info or Plugshare would be willing to host user supplied Supercharging fees. Plugshare has a spot for that info but none of the Supercharger locations I checked have had it entered.

 

[RTPEV]

That sounds kind of like shitty business practice to me. I wonder if a third party like Supercharge.info or Plugshare would be willing to host user supplied Supercharging fees. Plugshare has a spot for that info but none of the Supercharger locations I checked have had it entered.

Is it even easy to determine what rate is being charged (either per minute or per kWh) when actually at a site and charging? Plus when you throw in peak pricing (that could vary) into the mix, it all gets pretty complicated.

I agree it would be nice to have a more transparent view of how much a given Supercharger is going to cost...but at the same time, it's not always the same as going to the gas station down the block because gas is 3 cents cheaper...you are kind of a captive customer at a Supercharger site and are stuck paying whatever rate they decide to charge. I'm sure this won't get any easier when we throw non-Tesla vehicles into the mix.

 

[LoudMusic]

Is it even easy to determine what rate is being charged (either per minute or per kWh) when actually at a site and charging? Plus when you throw in peak pricing (that could vary) into the mix, it all gets pretty complicated.

I agree it would be nice to have a more transparent view of how much a given Supercharger is going to cost...but at the same time, it's not always the same as going to the gas station down the block because gas is 3 cents cheaper...you are kind of a captive customer at a Supercharger site and are stuck paying whatever rate they decide to charge. I'm sure this won't get any easier when we throw non-Tesla vehicles into the mix.

Theoretically we have the option to use CHAdeMO, or that 3rd party CCS adapter. Or even L2 and just make road trips painfully slow

People talk so much about the Supercharger network being Tesla's biggest sales advantage, but as the CCS infrastructure grows the Teslas that can't use CCS are going to be the ones suffering. Partly from access to fewer charging locations and partly from Tesla not having competitors for charging supply.

 

[RTPEV]

Theoretically we have the option to use CHAdeMO, or that 3rd party CCS adapter. Or even L2 and just make road trips painfully slow

Yes, agreed, although my point was more that there aren't Superchargers, or even DC fast charge sites in general every 10th of a mile, but rather 30 or more miles apart, so you're pretty much stuck charging at the site you're at.

I'm certainly not expecting competing charge networks to be able to undercut Tesla on the cost of charging. Besides, even expensive Superchargers are still pretty cheap.

People talk so much about the Supercharger network being Tesla's biggest sales advantage, but as the CCS infrastructure grows the Teslas that can't use CCS are going to be the ones suffering. Partly from access to fewer charging locations and partly from Tesla not having competitors for charging supply.

+1

 

[jsmay311]

I just took a road trip through Illinois and Indiana. After my first charge in IL, I realized that Tesla recently raised the price in IL from $0.31/kWh to $0.37/kWh. Then on my next charge in IN I was struck by how much cheaper it was, at $0.24/min and $0.12/min.

Overall this worked out to a per-kWh price almost exactly 3x higher in IL vs IN on two very similar charges of ~50kWh.

With such drastic differences in prices between neighboring states, it would be very nice to have a website where you can easily view prices online. Maybe something akin to a GasBuddy for EV charging stations, which uses crowdsourcing from users to keep up with the latest prices. Or just incorporate something like this into Supercharge.info. (I myself have added pricing info to Plugshare for a handful of SCs, but it’s not set up well to for this purpose.)

 

[LoudMusic]

I just took a road trip through Illinois and Indiana. After my first charge in IL, I realized that Tesla recently raised the price in IL from $0.31/kWh to $0.37/kWh. Then on my next charge in IN I was struck by how much cheaper it was, at $0.24/min and $0.12/min.

Overall this worked out to a per-kWh price almost exactly 3x higher in IL vs IN on two very similar charges of ~50kWh.

With such drastic differences in prices between neighboring states, it would be very nice to have a website where you can easily view prices online. Maybe something akin to a GasBuddy for EV charging stations, which uses crowdsourcing from users to keep up with the latest prices. Or just incorporate something like this into Supercharge.info. (I myself have added pricing info to Plugshare for a handful of SCs, but it’s not set up well to for this purpose.)

It could be really easy to collect huge amounts of that kind of information from users. People could just go to their Tesla account, download their "bill", and upload it to a website that processes it into a database. You'd get massive amounts of Supercharger location rates and historical information.

The most recent repeat locations that I'm seeing in my list are:

08/27/2021 Augusta, ME Supercharging $10.20
30 kWh @ $0.34/kWh$10.20

08/01/2021 Augusta, ME Supercharging $8.70
30 kWh @ $0.29/kWh$8.70

Quite a jump there from 0.29 to 0.34 in less than a month! I think I've read somewhere that time of day matters, and possibly even local demand?

 

[jsmay311]

I went ahead and wasted a decent chunk of time clicking on a bunch of Superchargers in every U.S. state on the nav screen to compile a list of the latest average prices in each state to make a map of average $/kWh prices by state. I used Google Sheets geo charts to make this map.

For $/minute locations, I used a conversion formula to get from $/min to $/kWh based on the Supercharger speed. In practice, this ratio will also vary by vehicle, %SOC, temperature, pairing, etc., but the conversion numbers that I chose line up well with my personal experience charging my Model 3 LR. And Google Sheets geo charts doesn't have an easy way to present 2 different units on the same map anyway, so I had to convert into a single unit to present it all on a single map.

Here's a screenshot of the map:

And here's a link to the map where you can hover over each state to see the precise values for a given state:

Supercharger Price List - Google Drive

docs.google.com

As part of this effort, I've also compiled individual Supercharger prices for all the locations in 2/3 of states so far, but I've skipped the more densely populated states, so I've got about 1/3 of all U.S. Superchargers. Google Sheets geo charts can also display color-coded dots at individual charger locations, but it is painfully slow to populate the map once you get over 100 points or so. On this map I have the dot size vary by Supercharger speed.

Here's a screenshot of what it looks like:

And here's a link to the map where you can hover over each dot to see the price and kW for each Supercharger (but it can be very slow to load all the dots):

Supercharger Price List - Google Drive

docs.google.com

(*If anyone knows how to embed Google Sheets geo charts directly into a post, please let me know.)

 

[GtiMart]

Cool work. Looking at a map of (residential) electricity prices in USA gives a similar image, with Texas being one of the main outliers. I don't think Tesla are there to make much money out of Superchargers so I would expect the SuC prices to somewhat follow electricity provider rates (commercial).

 

[LoudMusic]

I went ahead and wasted a decent chunk of time clicking on a bunch of Superchargers in every U.S. state on the nav screen to compile a list of the latest average prices in each state to make a map of average $/kWh prices by state. I used Google Sheets geo charts to make this map.

For $/minute locations, I used a conversion formula to get from $/min to $/kWh based on the Supercharger speed. In practice, this ratio will also vary by vehicle, %SOC, temperature, pairing, etc., but the conversion numbers that I chose line up well with my personal experience charging my Model 3 LR. And Google Sheets geo charts doesn't have an easy way to present 2 different units on the same map anyway, so I had to convert into a single unit to present it all on a single map.

Here's a screenshot of the map:
View attachment 722925

And here's a link to the map where you can hover over each state to see the precise values for a given state:

Supercharger Price List - Google Drive

docs.google.com

As part of this effort, I've also compiled individual Supercharger prices for all the locations in 2/3 of states so far, but I've skipped the more densely populated states, so I've got about 1/3 of all U.S. Superchargers. Google Sheets geo charts can also display color-coded dots at individual charger locations, but it is painfully slow to populate the map once you get over 100 points or so. On this map I have the dot size vary by Supercharger speed.

Here's a screenshot of what it looks like:
View attachment 722949

And here's a link to the map where you can hover over each dot to see the price and kW for each Supercharger (but it can be very slow to load all the dots):

Supercharger Price List - Google Drive

docs.google.com

(*If anyone knows how to embed Google Sheets geo charts directly into a post, please let me know.)

Wow that's a lot of great work! Thanks for doing all the clicking and mathing!

 

[PCMc]

@jsmay311 - Out of curiosity, how many of the green, lowest cost locations happen to also be locations where the cost structure is actually charging by minute?

Reason I ask is if I am reading your conversion correctly, you're essentially pricing as if you're charging at the max charging rate continuously, which will not happen. I think this results in you understating the cost for these locations.

For example, I used a couple of the superchargers in Indiana in August. I don't have an actual cost as I have free supercharging on my 2016 MS90D, but I do run my own datalogger and can roughly approximate what my cost would be. I used the new Fair Oaks Farms V2 supercharger, which by your formula you would list at $0.24 per min / 2 = $0.12 per kWh.

I charged from 42% to 90%, adding 129.5 rated miles which equates to roughly 37 kWh. The first 15 minutes was above the 60 kW level which I believe is $.24 per min and then the balance of 25 minutes was below 60kW at $0.12 per min, for a total cost of $6.60. This works out as an average cost for me of $0.178 per kWh, about 1.5 times the rate you imply.

I realize the conversion gets really messy as the average cost per kWh for any one charging session with depend heavily upon the vintage of vehicle (my 2015 MS90D tops out at about 145 kW max speed even on a V3 supercharger an ideal conditions) and the SOC range over which you charge. However, I think in general you may be underestimating the effective cost for the time based locations.

 

[Feathermerchan]

1. Every state and even within states the cost of electricity varies over time. How do we keep a map up to date?
In Texas for example most places you can chose your retail provider and contract length. Typical contract lengths are 6 months to 2 years. Availability and TOU pricing varies over the state.

2. Some states allow Tesla to sell by the kWh (like gallon of gas) but in some states (like Texas) that is illegal unless you are a utility. Technology outruns legislation again. This is why some are $/minute.

3. If Tesla published a map, it would have to kept up to date or we would be mad because when we charged we would pay different than what was on the map.

 

[jsmay311]

@jsmay311 - Out of curiosity, how many of the green, lowest cost locations happen to also be locations where the cost structure is actually charging by minute?

All of them.

There are a few fluky Superchargers scattered around with per-kWh prices around $0.20-$0.23, but those are very few and far between, and they are colored kinda yellow-green on my map.

Reason I ask is if I am reading your conversion correctly, you're essentially pricing as if you're charging at the max charging rate continuously, which will not happen.

I posted the conversion rates that I’m using at the bottom of each map. It does not assume max charge rates. For example, for 250kW chargers I divide the $/min by 2 to estimate the $/kWh. If I assumed sustained 250kW charge rates, you’d have to divide by 4.2.

As stated in my previous post, I came up with the conversion factors based on an average of my own charging history with my 2018 Model 3 LR, which is one of the faster charging models.

For example, I used a couple of the superchargers in Indiana in August. I don't have an actual cost as I have free supercharging on my 2016 MS90D, but I do run my own datalogger and can roughly approximate what my cost would be. I used the new Fair Oaks Farms V2 supercharger, which by your formula you would list at $0.24 per min / 2 = $0.12 per kWh.

Fair Oaks is actually V3 and $0.29/min. So my formula estimates $0.15/kWh.

I charged from 42% to 90%, adding 129.5 rated miles which equates to roughly 37 kWh. The first 15 minutes was above the 60 kW level which I believe is $.24 per min and then the balance of 25 minutes was below 60kW at $0.12 per min, for a total cost of $6.60. This works out as an average cost for me of $0.178 per kWh, about 1.5 times the rate you imply.

As you noted, your older Model S charges slower than newer Teslas. Also, going from 42% to 90% is a pretty suboptimal range to charge when it comes to resolvin resulting supercharging speeds.

If your numbers are right (37kWh added over 50 minutes of charging), that equates to a pretty dismal average charge rate of 44kW. That’s gonna be pretty far towards the low end of average charge rates for an average Tesla at a V3 Supercharger.

I realize the conversion gets really messy as the average cost per kWh for any one charging session with depend heavily upon the vintage of vehicle (my 2015 MS90D tops out at about 145 kW max speed even on a V3 supercharger an ideal conditions) and the SOC range over which you charge.

Agreed.

Definitely a big “YMMV” disclaimer needed on this stuff. Especially as we approach the winter months when charging speeds slow down. (Most of my personal charging history is during spring-autumn.)

 

[Rupe]

Didn’t realize there was such a disparity, but it matters little to me. it’s the “cost of doing business“ to take a trip in a Tesla, which I long since decided it was worth it. Since I drive mostly in the SE, it’s about twice what I pay at home. Destination chargers at participating hotels offset the cost as well.

 

[Sponch]

1. Every state and even within states the cost of electricity varies over time. How do we keep a map up to date?
In Texas for example most places you can chose your retail provider and contract length. Typical contract lengths are 6 months to 2 years. Availability and TOU pricing varies over the state.

2. Some states allow Tesla to sell by the kWh (like gallon of gas) but in some states (like Texas) that is illegal unless you are a utility. Technology outruns legislation again. This is why some are $/minute.

3. If Tesla published a map, it would have to kept up to date or we would be mad because when we charged we would pay different than what was on the map.

Has #2 changed recently? I noticed on the in car nav that the superchargers, at least in San Antonio , are now 28¢/kWh.

 

[Feathermerchan]

Yup Tesla is now a Utility in Texas. So it can bill by the kWh. And as expected Supercharging is much more expensive than charging at home. Also SA owns it's electric company (CPS) so it is not competing with other retail providers )utilities) in SA.
I'm going to take a look at rates in competitive areas in Tx.

 

[PCMc]

There also was just a significant change to billing in the states where Tesla has to charge by the minute, not the kWh. The old two Tier System has been replaced now with a 4 tier system. From a quick comparison of one or two sites I'm familiar with it also sees as a part of this the overall cost went up significantly.

Here's break-down of the new 4-tier set-up.

When billing per minute, there are four tiers to account for changes in charging speeds: ‘Tier 1,’ ‘Tier 2,’ ‘Tier 3’ and ‘Tier 4.’

Tier 1	Tier 2	Tier 3	Tier 4
Charging at or below 60 kW	Charging above 60 kW, at or below 100 kW	Charging above 100 kW, at or below 180 kW	Charging above 180 kW
Lowest price per minute	Second-lowest price per minute	Second-highest price per minute	Highest price per minute

For reference, previous structure was Tier 1 below 60 kW, Tier 2 was above 60 kW. One site I'm aware of in the US:

Tier	Old cost structure	New cost structure
Tier 1, < 60 kW	< 60 kW, $0.14 per min	$0.12 for V2 station, $0.14/min for V3 station
Tier 2, was > 60 kW, now 60-100kW	> 60 kW, $0.28 per min	$0.31 for V2 station, $0.38/min for V3
Tier 3 now 100kW-180 kW	N/A	$0.58 for V2 station, $0.71/min for V3
Tier 4 now 180 - 250 kW	N/A	N/A for V2 station, $1.15/min for V3

 

[Feathermerchan]

I had a look at SC in Tx using my car's map and most are 28¢/kWh with a few at 29¢.

 

[jsmay311]

Welp... sucks that prices are ballooning at per-minute Superchargers. And it blows the maps I posted above to s***. But I can't really argue with the logic of it. It made no sense for the per-minute SC's to be so drastically cheaper than per-kWh before today.

But I find it hard to understand the rationale behind the small variations in pricing from SC to SC. Just clicking on a few different ones around the midwest, I find:

V3
Tier 1; Tier 2; Tier 3; Tier 4
$0.14; $0.37; $0.67; $1.10
$0.14; $0.38; $0.71; $1.15
$0.14; $0.38; $0.72; $1.15

V2
Tier 1; Tier 2: Tier 3
$0.14; $0.37; $0.69
$0.14; $0.37; $0.70
$0.14; $0.38; $0.71
$0.16; $0.43; $0.81