Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Supercharging - Elon's statement that Daily Supercharging Users are Receiving Notes

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Maybe a visual aid will help:

View attachment 84541



I think you're saying "originally they said X, and so now saying X again is a changed message". Ok, I think you've passed my limits of comprehension.

You're trying to use reason with the unresonable. No matter what you do, you will never convince them, even with "visual aids' that conclusively prove your point, and destroy their argument, you will just get a reply that your post proves their point. I'm with you on passing the limits of comprehension.
 
Whatever the arguments about Teslas promise for SC , that only exists in the cars sold in the past. They can change their policy without ill will to new owners. And before e long there will be a lot more new owners than old owners. Me, I think I am grandfathered in...
In likelihood they will keep present policy forS and X owners but Gen3 could be another matter. I think Tesla knows exactly which cars are charging when. They have lots of time to wait and see what is happening before the Gen 3 arrives
 
You said (quote lost) supercharging is just like coupons or an insurance company. No, they're not!!!!! Coupons and insurance companies are heavily litigated, and the coupons are for a specific purpose. SC's are generally for long distance travel, which is a business case verbal shorthand for the business reason for them in the first place, to get over the chicken egg paradox for being able to make it where you need to go given reasonable financial accommodations without fear of going dead on the road even though your car works and you have financial means to pay the prevailing electricity rates plus equipment. Someone had to build the network. The free part wasn't necessary so honestly I wonder where it came from, but most likely to avoid monopoly, regulatory and quality of service liabilities, and that's its own issue, but what is not an issue is that SC's are to close the chicken egg gap. Anything in support of the chickens is ok; anybody there to poach their eggs are not, as much as they WANT to steal them. Murderers, I say!
 
But some sales people said free forever. Don't you see? Message was changed. Bait and switch!!!:)

I don't get it. Not a single person here is saying Tesla ever explicitly excluded people who refused to charge at home and only want to use the Superchargers from doing so. Just that they stated from the beginning as has been shown multiple times that it was intended for long distance travel and later for charging in major cities for people without charging.

AR: show us where Tesla says the network is for daily charging if you have a 240 V outlet at home. Yes, I know they said free forever and use it as much as you want. We get that.
 
Last edited:
I think I figured it out... AnxietyRanger's surprisingly strong (yet completely non-invested?) opinion isn't informed based on any given message from Tesla:

Thus his opinion stems from an impression of the opinion of people who went before him (who may or may not still be holding the same opinion).

Hence, no amount of actual proof that you can provide from Tesla would be sufficient proof to counter his opinion, since it's not originally based on anything that Tesla said. You would have to counter the message oozing from dark corners of TMC and other national Tesla forums instead.

This is why it passed the limits of our comprehension :).

Now that was chuckle-worthy.... :biggrin:

But sadly... also true.
 
But some sales people said free forever. Don't you see? Message was changed. Bait and switch!!!:)

I don't get it. Not a single person here is saying Tesla ever explicitly excluded people who refused to charge at home and only want to use the Superchargers from doing so. Just that they stated from the beginning as had been shown multiple times that it was intended for long distance travel and later for charging in major cities for people without charging.

AR: show us where Tesla says the network is for daily charging if you have a 240 V outlet at home. Yes, I know they said free forever and use it as much as you want. We get that.

Unfortunately the concepts ofcontext and conditions also seem to be lost on folks... as such your question won't work. It will be met with the assertion that, given the Supercharging pages had the words "free forever", ANYWHERE on them, then the suggestion of conditional usage or further qualification is null and void.
 
You're trying to use reason with the unresonable. No matter what you do, you will never convince them, even with "visual aids' that conclusively prove your point, and destroy their argument, you will just get a reply that your post proves their point. I'm with you on passing the limits of comprehension.

I have no part in this (yet) but.. Dude I hope you agree that material saying X enables Y does not imply X shouldn't be used for Z. And I'd look into terms of use not as much into marketing posts, no? Have any TOU of superchargers changed over time?
 
Look, the problem is five equally vocal and passionate people are debating one. My chances of being understood are slim. Even if one of you "get me" (I don't mean agree but just would disagree with my actual opinion not a flawed perception of it) the message will be muddied by the rest piling on a misunderstanding. I refer to my summary and leave it at that. I have more important things to do on TMC. :)

AnxietyRanger said:
I am interested if a summary of sorts might generate some more mutual understanding than a continued tit-for-tat. I am genuinely interested how many of you could agree to the following, now updated:

I think most us agree Tesla created the Supercharger system to solve certain specific issues hindering EV adoption, including both lack of infrastructure and the unique needs of EVs. This started with long-distance travel (call it the road trip), both the lack of charging and the lack of charging speed, but eventually evolved into other intents as well, such as solving the question of urban charging (London), perhaps - at least temporarily - even issues like operating a taxi fleet of EVs (Schipol) which would not work as well without such fast charger.

I think most us agree Tesla has calculated the price of the Supercharger system (built into the price of the car nowadays) in such a manner that it would be mostly used for the above-mentioned purposes. I think most of us can also agree Tesla would prefer the Supercharger system to be used for these purposes and not much for other purposes. No doubt, Tesla is also a strong advocate of the home charger, and of the EV-era home (solar, PowerWall etc.) and would not wish to hinder this with the Supercharger.

Also, I think most of us agree the Supercharger, as unique a system as it is, is by nature an obstacle remover - not an instrument of lesser total cost of ownership. There is some debate over whether or not, as EVs have crossed these obstacles and moved to the mainstream, the Supercharger system may become - for future Tesla models - either pay-per-use or perhaps one day even obsolete if other solutions to EV charging replace it in society.

I think most of us can agree, Tesla did not specify or impose - prior to the latest general meeting - any specific limitations on the use of Superchargers, beyond rules related to parking at Superchargers (be it in the form of traffic signs or the website FAQ). I think most of us even agree, Tesla will not likely impose any limitations on the use of Superchargers (on Model S), beyond informative letters.

Where there is a main disagreement, and my intent here is merely to note this not continue to argue it, is: Was Tesla clear enough beforehand on what the Supercharger system can be used for?

Some feel, perhaps a majority on this TMC thread, the context of their communications made it clear enough it was intended for enabling long-distance travel and perhaps secondarily situations where no other charging would be feasible - and at the end of the day, common sense, reasonable interpretation and/or manners should at the very least have made it clear enough. One argument being this is similar to free refills at lunch restaurant, you are expected to know the limits (i.e. during your meal, not the next day) without being explicitly told so.

Some feel, perhaps a minority on this TMC thread, Tesla used the generalized message of free Supercharging for life as a marketing tool, intentionally without limitations to strenghten the marketing message - and that Tesla sales people used the message liberally, thus creating the perception that Supercharging is not - either legally or morally - limited to any specific use. Some of these people feel e.g. the lunch refill argument does not apply, because Tesla made use of the implication that there are absolutely no limits, similar to a restaurant selling you a mug and saying come refill anytime.

Who would be comfortable with this summary and just agreeing to disagree on the last part? I know I am.
 
There is a lot of discussion on this. As an owner, like the rest of you, that has already been paid for the Superchargers, I have a requirement that needs to be met. I own a home HPWC. I NEED to charge at superchargers on the road. Most of the time it is a non-issue as there are plenty of connections to go around. Although we do have to split chargers, that is an issue I won't go into here. Point is, if I am going somewhere and am on a schedule, i don't need a local owner charge to keep me from doing that. Charge all you want when the Superchargers are available, but move out of our way when the long trip folks are coming through. It came close on the San Juan Capistrano charger recently. I only needed 15 minutes and got the last charger available. Others had to wait. This was on a Sunday. Not good.
 
There is a lot of discussion on this. As an owner, like the rest of you, that has already been paid for the Superchargers, I have a requirement that needs to be met. I own a home HPWC. I NEED to charge at superchargers on the road. Most of the time it is a non-issue as there are plenty of connections to go around. Although we do have to split chargers, that is an issue I won't go into here. Point is, if I am going somewhere and am on a schedule, i don't need a local owner charge to keep me from doing that. Charge all you want when the Superchargers are available, but move out of our way when the long trip folks are coming through. It came close on the San Juan Capistrano charger recently. I only needed 15 minutes and got the last charger available. Others had to wait. This was on a Sunday. Not good.

As charging etiquette, I agree locals or more to the point any kind of non-essentials move over if full.

How do you know they all weren't long-distance charging, though?
 
As charging etiquette, I agree locals or more to the point any kind of non-essentials move over if full.

How do you know they all weren't long-distance charging, though?

You don't and that's the problem. You said everyone will be nice and immediately move if someone appears there. How do the locals know it isn't another local wanting to charge and avoid paying for electricity at home? They don't unless everyone stays at their car and goes up to each and every car and quizzes people. And we know not all owners stay at their car for the full hour it takes to charge from empty. And what may be non-essential to you may not be to someone else. Obviously if someone is willing to forgo one of the main advantages to driving electric (wake up each morning with a full charge) to save a few bucks, moving out of the way for someone else might not be 'essential' to them.
 
I never said everyone will be nice. I entertain no such illusions. I was describing my view of good etiquette to strive for.

I am proponent clear and unambiguous new Supercharging rules, just grandfather old cars in under old regime and that's cool.
 
I never said everyone will be nice. I entertain no such illusions. I was describing my view of good etiquette to strive for.

I am proponent clear and unambiguous new Supercharging rules, just grandfather old cars in under old regime and that's cool.

The real answer is that over time apartments and condos will have electric outlets and enough SCs will be built so it won't be an issue. The main problem now is that there aren't enough SCs for everyone to daily charge (apartment dwellers) and still have stalls open for travelers. So it's incumbent upon Tesla owners to use some good judgement and etiquette. Whether you are on the side of "Tesla said unlimited" or "Tesla said long distance" doesn't really matter in the long run. My opinion is that it will get worse before it gets better.
 
The real answer is that over time apartments and condos will have electric outlets and enough SCs will be built so it won't be an issue. The main problem now is that there aren't enough SCs for everyone to daily charge (apartment dwellers) and still have stalls open for travelers. So it's incumbent upon Tesla owners to use some good judgement and etiquette. Whether you are on the side of "Tesla said unlimited" or "Tesla said long distance" doesn't really matter in the long run. My opinion is that it will get worse before it gets better.

I have no disagreement with this message.
 
SW update could enable some kind of "marker" for cars actively using a local SC...maybe that the parking lights stay on or something like that. That would make it easier to promote (or if necessary, politely suggest) charging etiquette.
 
Maybe a visual aid will help:

View attachment 84541



I think you're saying "originally they said X, and so now saying X again is a changed message". Ok, I think you've passed my limits of comprehension.
Enabling Long Distance vs. Limited To Long Distance is the crux of the disagreement.

I think almost everybody will agree that the main intent is to take away that last critical barrier to making EV's more acceptable, but I personally was never told that long distance travelling is the only time I can use a SC. Every person I've ever dealt with at Tesla said free for life.....period. No qualifiers.
 
Enabling Long Distance vs. Limited To Long Distance is the crux of the disagreement.

I think almost everybody will agree that the main intent is to take away that last critical barrier to making EV's more acceptable, but I personally was never told that long distance travelling is the only time I can use a SC. I was always told free for life.....period.

Glad to see someone comprehends. :)