Suspension Problem on Model S

[gpcordaro]

That is just FUD. Based upon what evidence besides your personal N of 1? I've been trying to snip all the personal attacks on you, but frankly a reply like this is inviting that sort of thing. You were out of warranty, cars break, you had a bad outcome, Tesla met you half way. You filed (appropriately in my opinion) a report with NHTSA so that THEY (not you) could determine if this is a legitimate safety concern due to a issue. When you start throwing your opinion around without justification and frankly a plethora of evidence against this being a widespread issue it makes it seem that you are on a personal vendetta.

I have no idea whether or not Tesla has a fleet-wide suspension problem or if it's just a few one-off cases. I will tell you that I did not abuse my car and even though I only live 2 miles from my office I drive about 120 plus miles a day.I know you won't believe me when I say for safety reasons however it was truly a safety issue with my car and someone could have been killed if it was the occupants with in my car it couls of been the occupants within other cars. As to the statement about someone may have died I'm referring to the two Tesla's the drove over cliffs in California. I don't suspect those guys were suicidal. However it could have been a suspension failure that caused the accident in the first place, I don't know if that's the case or not it's up to National Highway Transportation safety administration to make that determination. Furthermore data is being collected by national highway Transportation safety administration and I will let them make the determination whether Tesla has a serious problem or not.

 

[McMuggets]

Looks like your math is slightly off. 70,000 miles would be about 112654 km. The easy way to convert is to just multiply by 1.6 (not 2).

Ooops, yes I wrote this in haste and just x2'd it. Fail on my part, thanks for pointing that out.

 

[McMuggets]

I have no idea whether or not Tesla has a fleet-wide suspension problem or if it's just a few one-off cases. I will tell you that I did not abuse my car and even though I only live 2 miles from my office I drive about 120 plus miles a day.I know you won't believe me when I say for safety reasons however it was truly a safety issue with my car and someone could have been killed if it was the occupants with in my car it couls of been the occupants within other cars. As to the statement about someone may have died I'm referring to the two Tesla's the drove over cliffs in California. I don't suspect those guys were suicidal. However it could have been a suspension failure that caused the accident in the first place, I don't know if that's the case or not it's up to National Highway Transportation safety administration to make that determination. Furthermore data is being collected by national highway Transportation safety administration and I will let them make the determination whether Tesla has a serious problem or not.

This is a speculative statement. Could it have been suspension? Maybe. Could it have been distracted driving in a super-car performing vehicle? Maybe. Could it have been careless driving? Maybe. Could it have been <insert anything else our imaginations can conjure up>? Maybe. There has been other suspension breakages of ball joints in other cars since the creation of suspension parts. This is especially true of corroded suspension parts. I mean, they've even created a suspension joint that resists this exact problem as posted previously in this thread. I think that if Keef Wivaneff were to do the same type of pictures and postings of other branded cars, you would start to realize this is not a Tesla problem. This is an every-car-made suspension wear issue. As in, nothing lasts forever, nothing can stand up to endless amounts of abuse, and nothing is perfect. Something likely broke the seal to your ball joint and let in grime to rust away. This can happen on any car.

Silver lining: maybe we will see an Elon tweet stating that now all Tesla suspension parts are made in-house and are titanium or titanium coated. Resisting corrosion forever. That would be way awesome.

 

[McMuggets]

Here are some ball joint issues in case you need to see:

Ball Joint Replacement

Ball Joint/Control arm removal RUST! AHHHHH!!

Jeep & ball joint woes -- time for a new mechanic? (long) - Straight Dope Message Board



Anyhow just google "ball joint suspension rust" and you'll see that it isn't just Tesla that can have a rusted ball joint.

 

[gpcordaro]

This is a speculative statement. Could it have been suspension? Maybe. Could it have been distracted driving in a super-car performing vehicle? Maybe. Could it have been careless driving? Maybe. Could it have been <insert anything else our imaginations can conjure up>? Maybe. There has been other suspension breakages of ball joints in other cars since the creation of suspension parts. This is especially true of corroded suspension parts. I mean, they've even created a suspension joint that resists this exact problem as posted previously in this thread. I think that if Keef Wivaneff were to do the same type of pictures and postings of other branded cars, you would start to realize this is not a Tesla problem. This is an every-car-made suspension wear issue. As in, nothing lasts forever, nothing can stand up to endless amounts of abuse, and nothing is perfect. Something likely broke the seal to your ball joint and let in grime to rust away. This can happen on any car.

Silver lining: maybe we will see an Elon tweet stating that now all Tesla suspension parts are made in-house and are titanium or titanium coated. Resisting corrosion forever. That would be way awesome.

you said maybe the rubber seal around my ball joint cracked and black dirt and or water into caused the corrosion. But if you watch my video that I posted on YouTube you will see that the right upper control arm ball joint still had its Rubber seal intact and yet it was worn to the point that it was not safe. I think something other than bad seals are causing some not all ball joints to wear out prematurely. As I stated earlier National Highway Transportation safety administration is in data collection mode, and now that the muzzle has been lifted from the Tesla consumers, more data will be collected.

 

[thegruf]

I have no idea whether or not Tesla has a fleet-wide suspension problem or if it's just a few one-off cases. I will tell you that I did not abuse my car and even though I only live 2 miles from my office I drive about 120 plus miles a day.I know you won't believe me when I say for safety reasons however it was truly a safety issue with my car and someone could have been killed if it was the occupants with in my car it couls of been the occupants within other cars. As to the statement about someone may have died I'm referring to the two Tesla's the drove over cliffs in California. I don't suspect those guys were suicidal. However it could have been a suspension failure that caused the accident in the first place, I don't know if that's the case or not it's up to National Highway Transportation safety administration to make that determination. Furthermore data is being collected by national highway Transportation safety administration and I will let them make the determination whether Tesla has a serious problem or not.

as I see this

I know you're enjoying your 15 minutes of fame but really you are putting out some ridiculous FUD and conflating a simple random failure with just about anything else you can loosely associate with it.

Your balljoint failed simply because the boot failed or leaked, the grease came out and it corroded.
Boots split. It happens, I can count a Ford, a Seat and two Audis. The car is long out of warranty at 70,000 miles, it is not a new vehicle.
You drove your luxury sedan on a bumpy track (directly against manufacturer specified intended use) and as the suspension bounced it came apart, not a huge surprise in the circumstance, and given the suspension will be under constant, if varying, load on the highway it is considerably less likely it would have come apart on the highway.
Trying to extrapolate that this is some massive safety issue with wildly specualtive observations about cars driving off cliffs is laughable and does nothing for your credibility, Indeed all you are doing is playing into the hands of mindless trolls such as Keef F*witwivtwofs which serves no purpose whatsoever.

Tesla have generously tried to support you with this issue, your response is to slap them in the face for their gesture of goodwill.
Your call, but I wouldn't expect much from Tesla in future if I were you.

There is one valid question in all of this, that is whether Tesla's service schedule specifically includes inspection of this boot along wthl all the other boots covering joints on the vehicle, and no doubt this has been reviewed. Anything else is just publicity seeking hyperbole.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

I will tell you that I did not abuse my car and even though I only live 2 miles from my office I drive about 120 plus miles a day.

Having a difficult time reconciling this...

 

[msnow]

Having a difficult time reconciling this...

Why is that? People drive way more miles per day than that even though they are based at home.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Why is that? People drive way more miles per day than that even though they are based at home.

People drive more than 120+ a day that work from home? I have not had any experience with people driving this much with such a short work commute. I suppose it's possible, but I'm simply saying that having a 2 mile commute, and then stating that you drive 120+ miles a day is confusing. Especially when that rate would indicate even greater mileage than the car has...about ~21k more, in fact.

 

[msnow]

People drive more than 120+ a day that work from home? I have not had any experience with people driving this much with such a short work commute. I suppose it's possible, but I'm simply saying that having a 2 mile commute, and then stating that you drive 120+ miles a day is confusing. Especially when that rate would indicate even greater mileage than the car has...about ~21k more, in fact.

Yes, years ago I drove 90 miles to work from home. Round trip 180 miles for several years. I know people today in sales positions that drive 250 miles per day sometimes more. It's not that uncommon and Tesla is the perfect car for that kind of driving. Wish I would have it 20 years ago. Regarding your math that it would have been more than what he claimed I think you are picking at nits now. Have you accounted for holidays, being sick, vacations? Of course not and no one expects you to. Maybe there's some truth here, maybe. Best just to wait for the NHTSA findings and see what happens.

 

[efusco]

You have Blinders on. Tesla has a problem. IMHO

Mr Cordaro,

[snip]

Public Safety.......................

I believe people can die and some may have already.

I have no idea whether or not Tesla has a fleet-wide suspension problem or if it's just a few one-off cases. I will tell you that I did not abuse my car and even though I only live 2 miles from my office I drive about 120 plus miles a day.I know you won't believe me when I say for safety reasons however it was truly a safety issue with my car and someone could have been killed if it was the occupants with in my car it couls of been the occupants within other cars. As to the statement about someone may have died I'm referring to the two Tesla's the drove over cliffs in California. I don't suspect those guys were suicidal. However it could have been a suspension failure that caused the accident in the first place, I don't know if that's the case or not it's up to National Highway Transportation safety administration to make that determination. Furthermore data is being collected by national highway Transportation safety administration and I will let them make the determination whether Tesla has a serious problem or not.

So see bolded above...you make my point for me...your latest post says what I did, you have an N=1 of a bad suspension..I"m sorry, that sucks, I would hate if it were me and I'd want to report so that IF there are many others with similar situations that it is addressed and the public safety is put first. But your posts prior to that make the assumption that "Tesla has a problem", and "[you] believe people can die and some may have already."

By your own admission the latter 2 statements are unfounded and frankly slanderous...so yea, you're drawing the ire of many people here who might have otherwise been somewhat sympathetic to your plight, myself included.

So, my request for my own personal reasons and for your own, please stick to the facts and avoid the speculative craziness that has no basis in objective facts. Could this turn out to be a recall issue and a safety concern? Absolutely. Could it turn out to be a one off and rare occurance like has occured in pretty much every brand of car ever built? Highly likely. But if you're feeling like you're a target of attacks, perhaps you shouldn't be painting red rings on yourself.

 

[gpcordaro]

Troll alert! Don't feed this!

Tesla -Whompy Wheels

 

[Grendal]

Tesla -Whompy Wheels

Keith Leech is a crackpot. Using anything he has posted as a reference is absurd. If there is any truth to be found it is completely corrupted by his craziness.

He's been at this for years apparently under his various aliases:

Super Troll Jim5437532 and his campaign against Tesla

I called out his fake NHTSA reports years ago. His faults with the Model S go far beyond a suspension issue. He's heralded anything at all which throws mud at the company: batteries, fires, brakes, each and every accident, the fact that it is a heavy car, and anything else that he feels can be used. He is an obsessive crackpot.

 

[JRP3]

I know you won't believe me when I say for safety reasons however it was truly a safety issue with my car and someone could have been killed if it was the occupants with in my car it couls of been the occupants within other cars. As to the statement about someone may have died I'm referring to the two Tesla's the drove over cliffs in California. I don't suspect those guys were suicidal. However it could have been a suspension failure that caused the accident in the first place, I don't know if that's the case or not

Let me explain why your safety "concerns" are unfounded. In normal operation on paved roads a ball joint is in compression, which is why even a loose ball joint can function for a long time, though most people might notice some alignment issues or noises. Because they are in compression in normal driving conditions I know ball joint failure was not the cause of those people driving off a cliff. The way a loose ball joint might fail by coming out of it's socket is when going over a large bump, especially when the suspension is set higher than normal, say for example if someone set their suspension on maximum height when driving at slow speed on a very bumpy dirt road. So, again, a ball joint coming out of it's socket is extremely unlikely to be a life threatening situation, and no one in your car could have been killed because of it and it could not have been a ball joint coming out of it's socket that caused the cars to drive over cliffs. Any speculation to the contrary simply shows a lack of engineering and mechanical knowledge.

 

[gpcordaro]

Let me explain why your safety "concerns" are unfounded. In normal operation on paved roads a ball joint is in compression, which is why even a loose ball joint can function for a long time, though most people might notice some alignment issues or noises. Because they are in compression in normal driving conditions I know ball joint failure was not the cause of those people driving off a cliff. The way a loose ball joint might fail by coming out of it's socket is when going over a large bump, especially when the suspension is set higher than normal, say for example if someone set their suspension on maximum height when driving at slow speed on a very bumpy dirt road. So, again, a ball joint coming out of it's socket is extremely unlikely to be a life threatening situation, and no one in your car could have been killed because of it and it could not have been a ball joint coming out of it's socket that caused the cars to drive over cliffs. Any speculation to the contrary simply shows a lack of engineering and mechanical knowledge.

You forgot to say IMHO.
Here is a good balanced article.

Contrary To Musk's Suggestion, NHTSA Did Not Call Tesla Suspension Complaints ‘Fraudulent’ - HybridCars.com

 

[Grendal]

Because they are in compression in normal driving conditions I know ball joint failure was not the cause of those people driving off a cliff.

I should reply directly to Mr Cordero, but since you brought it up, it would be extremely unlikely (almost zero) that someone drove off the cliff due to a fault. Why? Because there would be evidence to show the lack of control. A skid mark where the car swerved out of control. Drag marks where the ball joint fractured or came loose and caused the frame to hit the ground and force an uncontrolled swerve or turn.

None of that happened. So the conclusion of the police was that they were suicides. It's certainly possible for a trained investigator to get things wrong but it gets to be extremely unlikely.

 

[Grendal]

You forgot to say IMHO.
Here is a good balanced article.

Contrary To Musk's Suggestion, NHTSA Did Not Call Tesla Suspension Complaints ‘Fraudulent’ - HybridCars.com

Somewhere in the 50+ pages of this discussion there was someone who went over this point in detail.

The NHTSA would have to do an official investigation before they could label something fraudulent. They did however acknowledge that 37 of 40 complaints were unjustified and lacked proper information.

Since we are aware that Keith Leech, aka Keef Wivaneff, aka a lot of other made up names, admits that he created the reports based on hearsay and opinion. The we can conclude that those complaints are false, or faked, or fraudulent. However you want to describe them. They are not based in reality.

Sadly, if there were some real data to be had from the cars he uses then that data would likely be thrown out because of his nonsense.

 

[mikeash]

Tesla -Whompy Wheels

You do realize that those wheels fell off because of the crashes, not the other way around, don't you?

 

[Grendal]

Really, where you in their heads?

I believe it was in the articles and follow up articles about the incidents. Do you have any evidence to conclude otherwise? I certainly have not seen any headlines shouting otherwise. We can see from your incident that there is a certain group out there that is looking for anything to blow up into something larger. You had, what was for you a traumatic incident, but was a just an accident. You don't see any other major news articles about incidents happening with regular gas cars questioning their safety when they catch fire spontaneously? I can remember Dick Van Dyke's Jaguar catching fire just driving around. It made the news only because it was Dick Van Dyke's car. There was no mention of a Jaguar recall that I am aware of.

 

[omarsultan]

Really, where you in their heads?

No, he can read:

The cause of the crash was still under investigation. CHP Officer Jon Sloat said investigators were looking into several factors that lead them to suspect the crash was intentional on the part of the driver, including the lack of skid marks or other signs of evasive action to avoid crashing over the cliff, Sloat said. They are working with the San Rafael Police Department to look into Thoelecke’s state of mind before the crash.

Marin County driver who died in crash off Highway 1 cliff identified