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Tax credit 2023 [The tax credit discussion thread]

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Hopefully they will come by years end, but carmakers have until Jan 15, 2024 to provide the document FYI. Time of delivery would have been nice, but not required either.
The way I read the IRS rules, the Jan 15th date is the date that dealers need to report to the IRS. The rules state at delivery the dealer should supply the confirming document to the new owner. That is what Ford did when I got my 2023 Lightning EV.

How is Tesla getting away with non-compliance?

The IRS "Clean Vehicle Credit Seller or Dealer Requirements" clearly state:

Report Information to Buyers
You MUST provide the following information to buyers at the time of sale:

Seller/Dealer name and taxpayer ID number
Buyer's name and taxpayer ID number
Maximum credit allowable under IRC 30D for new vehicles or IRC 25E for previously owned vehicles
Vehicle identification number (VIN), unless the vehicle is not assigned one
Battery capacity
Date of sale
Sale price
For new vehicles, verification that the buyer is the original user
 
If you need something to be “outraged” about, that’s as good as any. I could care less as long as I the tax credit. Unenforceable anyway since the IRS wouldn‘t know until they were notified. I suspect Tesla has cleared their methodology with the IRS…
 
If you need something to be “outraged” about, that’s as good as any. I could care less as long as I the tax credit. Unenforceable anyway since the IRS wouldn't know until they were notified. I suspect Tesla has cleared their methodology with the IRS…

It's likely true and if so it would be nice if Tesla disclosed their methodology to the public in writing.

Another member posted that Tesla included IRS form 15400 with a recent delivery. That would make them in compliance. Why the change? The only thing I have writing is the IRS requirement MUST provide the following information to buyers at the time of sale:

When I called ans spoke to local Tesla sales guy I received the "trust me" response. That's what i said to my girlfriend when we were 16 years old. :)
 
The way I read the IRS rules, the Jan 15th date is the date that dealers need to report to the IRS. The rules state at delivery the dealer should supply the confirming document to the new owner. That is what Ford did when I got my 2023 Lightning EV.

How is Tesla getting away with non-compliance?

The IRS "Clean Vehicle Credit Seller or Dealer Requirements" clearly state:

Report Information to Buyers
You MUST provide the following information to buyers at the time of sale:

Seller/Dealer name and taxpayer ID number
Buyer's name and taxpayer ID number
Maximum credit allowable under IRC 30D for new vehicles or IRC 25E for previously owned vehicles
Vehicle identification number (VIN), unless the vehicle is not assigned one
Battery capacity
Date of sale
Sale price
For new vehicles, verification that the buyer is the original user
And which of those items were not included on the web site or in your sales paperwork?
 
And which of those items were not included on the web site or in your sales paperwork?
I too did not receive the info stated by the IRS that I was to receive on the day of delivery (Dec8) other than the purchase agreement in my documents folder. After I got home and looked up the IRS rules on what I was supposed to receive I called back to the my local rep as well as chatted with a national rep (who discussed my question with their supervisor) They were a little befuddled as to what I was talking about. I am trusting as has been mentioned in this thread that sometime in the next 1-2 weeks the 15400 form will drop into my documents folder. But I have to admit the IRS instructions on this are pretty clear and am surprised that Tesla on the surface did not appear to be doing it correctly.
 
I too did not receive the info stated by the IRS that I was to receive on the day of delivery (Dec8) other than the purchase agreement in my documents folder. After I got home and looked up the IRS rules on what I was supposed to receive I called back to the my local rep as well as chatted with a national rep (who discussed my question with their supervisor) They were a little befuddled as to what I was talking about. I am trusting as has been mentioned in this thread that sometime in the next 1-2 weeks the 15400 form will drop into my documents folder. But I have to admit the IRS instructions on this are pretty clear and am surprised that Tesla on the surface did not appear to be doing it correctly.
The legislative requirements is:

(H) for which the person who sells any vehicle to the taxpayer furnishes a report to the taxpayer and to the Secretary, at such time and in such manner as the Secretary shall provide, containing—
(i) the name and taxpayer identification number of the taxpayer,
(ii) the vehicle identification number of the vehicle, unless, in accordance with any applicable rules promulgated by the Secretary of Transportation, the vehicle is not assigned such a number,
(iii) the battery capacity of the vehicle,
(iv) verification that original use of the vehicle commences with the taxpayer, and
(v) the maximum credit under this section allowable to the taxpayer with respect to the vehicle.

The recent guidance expands that and is referring to two different things, one thing to the buyer "provide this information" (legislative requirement plus Seller tax ID) and a report to the IRS. The IRS report version includes the perjury statement which could not be attested to at the time of vehicle sale.

Accordingly, for vehicle sales occurring in calendar year 2023 or later, the Seller must provide the report to the taxpayer not later than the date the vehicle is purchased and must submit the report to Secretary within fifteen (15) days of the end of the calendar year containing the following
(1) The name and taxpayer identification number of the Seller;
(2) The name and taxpayer identification number of the taxpayer;
(3) The vehicle identification number of the vehicle, unless, in accordance with any applicable rules promulgated by the Secretary of Transportation, the vehicle is not assigned such a number;
(4) The battery capacity of the vehicle;
(5) Only for sales of new clean vehicles, verification that original use of the vehicle commences with the taxpayer;
(6) The date of sale, sale price of the vehicle, and maximum credit under § 30D or § 25E, as applicable, allowable to the taxpayer with respect to the vehicle;
(7) For sales after December 31, 2023, in the case of a taxpayer who makes an election to transfer the credit to an eligible entity under § 30D(g)(1), any amount paid or otherwise allowable as a partial payment or down payment to the taxpayer; and
(8) A declaration applicable to the report signed by a person currently authorized to bind the Seller in these matters, in the following form: “Under penalties of perjury, I declare that I have examined this report submitted to the IRS pursuant to Revenue Procedure 2022-42 by [insert name of Seller], and to the best of my knowledge and belief I certify that this report is true, correct, and complete.” This written report must be provided to the IRS in the time and manner described in section 6.03 of this revenue procedure

Ok, so they didn't give you a piece of paper with all the info aggregated, but which item(s) do you not have?

Seller/Dealer name and taxpayer ID number
Tesla Inc, 91-2197729

Buyer's name and taxpayer ID number
You have this

Maximum credit allowable under IRC 30D for new
vehicles or IRC 25E for previously owned vehicles
$7,500 if a 3 under $55k, or Y/X under $80k

Vehicle identification number (VIN), unless the vehicle is not assigned one
You have this

Battery capacity
You have this

Date of sale
You gave this

Sale price
You have this

Clean Vehicle Credit Seller or Dealer Requirements | Internal Revenue Service
 
Is everyone really worried about Tesla not filing the paperwork in time? They've been getting tax credits on and off for years so has this been an issue in the past with people being denied their tax rebates? I'm not really worried and we are not picking ours up until 12/22/23.
 
Is everyone really worried about Tesla not filing the paperwork in time? They've been getting tax credits on and off for years so has this been an issue in the past with people being denied their tax rebates? I'm not really worried and we are not picking ours up until 12/22/23.
The only thing to worry about is if Tesla doesn't submit their list of buyer tax IDs and VINs (deadline Jan 15th) before people file their taxes.
 
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Is everyone really worried about Tesla not filing the paperwork in time? They've been getting tax credits on and off for years so has this been an issue in the past with people being denied their tax rebates? I'm not really worried and we are not picking ours up until 12/22/23.
No, I'm not worried. Some folks just get antsy with uncertainty, or look for things to be outraged about. Common nowadays.
 
The only thing to worry about is if Tesla doesn't submit their list of buyer tax IDs and VINs (deadline Jan 15th) before people file their taxes.
This would be a catastrophic PR disaster if it happened so I cannot fathom them dropping the ball like this. The potential lawsuits would be insane. Look how the media treated the recent software "recall". Tesla has to know they will be torn a new one if thousands of customers lose out on $7,500.
 
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This would be a catastrophic PR disaster if it happened so I cannot fathom them dropping the ball like this. The potential lawsuits would be insane. Look how the media treated the recent software "recall". Tesla has to know they will be torn a new one if thousands of customers lose out on $7,500.
So I am not outraged or angry. But I tend to be compulsive about following IRS rules. Actually the back story for me was on the day of delivery before I gave them my 50+k cashiers check I asked them to check to make sure I had submitted my SS# correctly. Doing all of the pre delivery check list on a small phone is ripe for errors with my big thumbs. They were unable to confirm my information but I was assured everything would be ok so I gave them the check . I think one of the values of having the form filled out in front of you on the day of delivery is that it provides some redundancy to make sure your application was done right. I also would have liked leaving there with a paper copy of all my documents--but then again I always print out my boarding pass rather than rely on my phone. And yes, I am a senior citizen.
 
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The only thing to worry about is if Tesla doesn't submit their list of buyer tax IDs and VINs (deadline Jan 15th) before people file their taxes.

That is what I am worried about. As far as I can remember I never gave Tesla my tax ID back in February 2023. So if they need to send both my Tax ID and my VIN to the IRS I don't see how that can happen. If I get the form without my tax ID I hope they will contact me. I have tried to contact Tesla but no one I could reach had a clue about this other than to tell me that I would get a form by the end of the year.
 
That is what I am worried about. As far as I can remember I never gave Tesla my tax ID back in February 2023. So if they need to send both my Tax ID and my VIN to the IRS I don't see how that can happen. If I get the form without my tax ID I hope they will contact me. I have tried to contact Tesla but no one I could reach had a clue about this other than to tell me that I would get a form by the end of the year.


Same here. I paid cash and don't recall providing my Tax ID number. The only identifying number I gave them was my Driver License number for the registration.
And which of those items were not included on the web site or in your sales paperwork?
TAX ID Number or Social Security Number. I don't remember providing this with the order and it is not on any of the paperwork. If I had financed I would have provided the ID number for the credit check but I paid cash. Without the SSAN I don't see how would IRS could verify that I bought a vehicle that qualified.

When I bought my Lighting in October as the dealer was filling out the form to provide it to me he didn't have my SSAN. He called me for it while he was hand filling out my copy of the required document .
 
For the most recent Tesla Model Y purchased that came with the IRA 15400 form - can the co-registered owner claim it instead of myself? The title application was co-applicant ("or title"), and I personally didn't know that if I was the main applicant, the IRA 15400 form would have been submitted under my name.

I do qualify for majority of the tax benefits, but probably not the full amount.
 
For the most recent Tesla Model Y purchased that came with the IRA 15400 form - can the co-registered owner claim it instead of myself? The title application was co-applicant ("or title"), and I personally didn't know that if I was the main applicant, the IRA 15400 form would have been submitted under my name.

I do qualify for majority of the tax benefits, but probably not the full amount.
I don't think so. The seller submits one tax id number for that VIN.
As to qualifications, if you are under the income threshold, you're good as long as you have sufficient tax burden.
 
I don't think so. The seller submits one tax id number for that VIN.
As to qualifications, if you are under the income threshold, you're good as long as you have sufficient tax burden.

Wanted to take advantage of the full tax credit with the co-applicant.. didn't realize Tesla was submitting just with my SSN/name.

Main issue is that I already have a $7,500 tax credit from the February 2023 purchase; this is an additional one, but I believe my income do have sufficient tax burden to claim the majority of the $7,500 tax credit from the December 2023 purchase.

Anyone know how much income (rough estimate) is required for $15K tax burden?
 
Where did this tax ID come from?

I don't have this. I've searched for it and come up with multiple opinions but can't find it in any Tesla documentation. Could you share your source please? I have a 2023 Model Y Long Range.

Thanks for your help.
It will be interesting to see what the form one files looks like.

Tax ID is from Tesla's corporate filing.
https://ir.tesla.com/_flysystem/s3/sec/000095017023001409/tsla-20221231-gen.pdf

Model Y Long Range pack is 84.6 kWh per EPA filing (360V * 235Ah), although the only thing that matters in terms of eligibilty is that it is larger than 7kWh.
https://dis.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=56771&flag=1
 
Wanted to take advantage of the full tax credit with the co-applicant.. didn't realize Tesla was submitting just with my SSN/name.

Main issue is that I already have a $7,500 tax credit from the February 2023 purchase; this is an additional one, but I believe my income do have sufficient tax burden to claim the majority of the $7,500 tax credit from the December 2023 purchase.

Anyone know how much income (rough estimate) is required for $15K tax burden?
Roughly:
Filing single, a little under $95k AGI + $14k standard deduction = $109k
Jointly: $120k AGI + $27k = $147k
2023-2024 Tax Brackets and Federal Income Tax Rates - NerdWallet
 
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