Tax credit

[voxel]

Also, the only people hurt in this instance are people who exceed the income cap, which the Dems will argue is counter to the point of the bill and the income cap is already pretty high so not a huge number of people affected.

But that's not true. The new EV bill rewrites the rules for PHEVs (Santa Fe, RAV4 Prime, Sorrento, etc.) so most will lose a few thousand to $3500. Polestar 2 are sedans and many of them cost over $55K. Mach-E is classified as a station wagon and may fall into the same $55K sedan rule. All Taycans, e-Trons GTs, and luxury EVs also lose the credit retroactively. That is the least of my concerns because those people can afford a $7500 loss.

I argue the only benefactors of the retro 1/1 bill are Tesla buyers who purchase between Jan 1st and signing date. Bolt still is NOT back in production:

Chevrolet Bolt EV, EUV Production Stopped Until At Least February

The previous time frame for the production shutdown has now been extended by a month, even though production briefly restarted in November.

insideevs.com

Everybody else loses or has marginal gains. If BBB passes and is retroactive Jan 1st... it's a giant gift to Tesla and Elon Musk. Thousands of PHEV purchasers who bought PHEVs in Jan will become irate because they expected a certain number for their tax credit.

 

[advocate8]

I just want to mash that “I’m Ready” button, but I know if I do I’ll get a car tomorrow and wake up to a WaPo story about a new negotiated deal to pass something in the new year. More likely… my car comes months from now and no deal passed. I think I’ll just sit tight for another 10 days…

And the coal miner’s union urged Manchin to rethink his no.

BUT... on the other hand, also from the same Post story on Manchin today:
"On Monday, he also reiterated concerns that the bill would subsidize electric cars for too many affluent families."

What does that mean? Does that mean Senator Toyota wants to cut Tesla out, or does it mean he wants lower income caps on the EV credits? Or no credits at all? It’s not like there are any $25,000 EVs out there, so I’m guessing either the later or more likely the income cap lowered.

 

[flstcgranucci]

Maybe, but I would assume I would get assigned any cars that gets out of the factory. This is what happened to me when I did buy 2018 Model 3...

If I click "I'm ready" will I get assigned a VIN? If I get it, can I still push the delivery?

You might, but what Ive been reading here is that you can only wait so long before they cancel your order, completely. Maybe taking it off hold, getting a VIN and then holding it again might reset their doomsday clock? Dunno for sure, but damn I want my car now.

 

[swiftd03]

But that's not true. The new EV bill rewrites the rules for PHEVs (Santa Fe, RAV4 Prime, Sorrento, etc.) so most will lose a few thousand to $3500. Polestar 2 are sedans and many of them cost over $55K. Mach-E is classified as a station wagon and may fall into the same $55K sedan rule. All Taycans, e-Trons GTs, and luxury EVs also lose the credit retroactively. That is the least of my concerns because those people can afford a $7500 loss.

I argue the only benefactors of the retro 1/1 bill are Tesla buyers who purchase between Jan 1st and signing date. Bolt still is NOT back in production:

Chevrolet Bolt EV, EUV Production Stopped Until At Least February

The previous time frame for the production shutdown has now been extended by a month, even though production briefly restarted in November.

insideevs.com

Everybody else loses or has marginal gains. If BBB passes and is retroactive Jan 1st... it's a giant gift to Tesla and Elon Musk. Thousands of PHEV purchasers who bought PHEVs in Jan will become irate because they expected a certain number for their tax credit.

You're right about the PHEV issue, I forgot about that change. That is based upon battery capacity though, add more capacity and those vehicles will qualify for the larger credit. The existing PHEV's out there were basically built around the existing law, no reason they couldn't add a larger battery (or more energy dense battery) and utilize the new one. The Mach E is trash anyways because every dealer is marking them up $10k or more. I just saw one listed for more than $80k yesterday. Absolute bullshit of the Ford dealers to go that route and ultimately they are only screwing themselves. I checked out a Mach E before I finalized my decision on the Tesla, the model Y is superior in nearly every way in my opinion and once the dealer adds their minimum $10k markup they quoted it was more expensive then the Tesla and would take more than 6 months to get it.

It also depends on when it is signed though. If they negotiate it over the holidays and sign it the first week of January then it most certainly would be effective 1/1. If that doesn't happen then it probably isn't getting done at all. If it is done further into the future (like February or later) then they will likely make it effective at a future date. All depends on when it goes down, if it goes down at all.

 

[Brolan]

I wouldn’t wait for this one. The BBB bill was scrapped and only a few pieces of it will make it through. It’s unlikely the expensive EV tax credits will be one of those that makes it.

 

[leaftoy]

[...] All Taycans, e-Trons GTs, and luxury EVs also lose the credit retroactively. That is the least of my concerns because those people can afford a $7500 loss.

[...]

"Those people" should take a $7.5k loss to pay for someone purchasing a 60-70k Y? Why do "those people" owe it to us?

 

[syedali2021]

I'm in same dilemma, my vehicle is on the way, scheduled to arrive at the dealer on December 26. I was told by SA I would need to take the delivery within 3 days. Only way to extend it to next year is to give up my VIN and wait for next round. I have until December 24th to decide if I want to let go of my VIN. I'll keep you guys posted...

I ended up giving up my VIN, now my account is on hold until Jan 5. However, I can hit "I'm ready" button anytime to put me back in queue for next VIN.

 

[FlatSix911]

Here is an update on the proposed tax credit language from Electrek:

The $4,500 electric car tax credit bonus for union-made EVs is not on the table anymore

Senator Joe Manchin, who has a swing vote in the US Senate, said that the Democrats have given up on...

electrek.co

 

[Suns]

Here we go again with this. Hopefully this doesn't get passed. Not needed in this economy

 

[FlatSix911]

Here we go again with this. Hopefully this doesn't get passed. Not needed in this economy

I agree... the prior stimulus packages drove the runaway inflation we are now experiencing.

 

[preilly44]

Why shouldn't EV buyers get tax credits when the ICE owners get their fuel subsidized? I think we need to get rid of all subsidies and let the market figure it out....

 

[fstop11]

I think Tesla's success and order backlog proves that EV incentives are no longer needed. (I concede that they probably contributed to Tesla's success in the days prior to the Model 3 being delivered.) These days, all you need is to make a good product that people love. The only thing the incentive does is push inferior products to people in the name of supporting the labor unions. Yet people still line up to buy Teslas...

 

[Eric9610]

I strongly believe in all or nothing. If you are going to subsidize gas then EV's should get a credit. Just as an FYI if no gas subsidies exist the national price per gallon would be $13 so we are talking about a current discount of over 50%.

With that said I think removing subsidies is not the answer...

 

[ATPMSD]

national price per gallon would be $13

“eliminating [oil and gas subsidies] would have an insignificant effect on world oil prices.”

Oil & Gas Subsidies: Myth vs. Fact

MYTH: Eliminating subsidies to the oil and gas industry will raise gas prices. FACT: Variations in gas prices are driven by the world market, and are not dependent on U.S. government policies. This includes the existing subsidies for the oil and gas industry according to multiple studies that...

usa.oceana.org

 

[Eric9610]

“eliminating [oil and gas subsidies] would have an insignificant effect on world oil prices.”

Oil & Gas Subsidies: Myth vs. Fact

MYTH: Eliminating subsidies to the oil and gas industry will raise gas prices. FACT: Variations in gas prices are driven by the world market, and are not dependent on U.S. government policies. This includes the existing subsidies for the oil and gas industry according to multiple studies that...

usa.oceana.org

This is correct and incorrect. The world average for a gallon of gas is $13 a gallon. So in a sense it would affect USA gas prices as we would standardize to world pricing…