Once again, Tesla seems well ahead of the “standards” organizations with their Tesla Semi and associated charging port. Pictures from the semi reveal show a proprietary charge port with 8 high current pins. If each pin pair could only do 120 kW (current Tesla charge port limit), then that’s 480kW, significantly above CCS 350kW. Anyone know if Tesla is going to try to standardize this new charge port?
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Tesla’s new truck charging connector?
- Thread starter Cosmacelf
- Start date
What is better than standard?
De-facto standard... just build the chargers and don't mind the laggards.
De-facto standard... just build the chargers and don't mind the laggards.
EfficientWatts
Member
I kind of wonder how this will play out in the actual real world. Not everyone is going to want, need, or be able to even support 1MW charging at the depot, home, etc. The connector looks more like a prototype than anything else so I fully expect it to evolve a little bit.
Given that these are commercial vehicles, 3 phase A/C charging will certainly play a bigger role, even in North America. (See thread: J3068 - 3 Phase A/C Charging for North America). Maybe the Type 2/J3068 port for A/C charging and the fat Tesla plug for DC charging?
(fyi based on the latest spec the max 277V/480Y power is 160 amps /133kW, so it could charge a 1Mwh battery in 7.5 hrs.)
Of course Tesla could get away with lower-powered DCFC and/or adapters (at least in NA, not sure about Europe). We'll see what happens since we're still 2 years out...
Given that these are commercial vehicles, 3 phase A/C charging will certainly play a bigger role, even in North America. (See thread: J3068 - 3 Phase A/C Charging for North America). Maybe the Type 2/J3068 port for A/C charging and the fat Tesla plug for DC charging?
(fyi based on the latest spec the max 277V/480Y power is 160 amps /133kW, so it could charge a 1Mwh battery in 7.5 hrs.)
Of course Tesla could get away with lower-powered DCFC and/or adapters (at least in NA, not sure about Europe). We'll see what happens since we're still 2 years out...
Given the price of the semi, I don’t see Tesla stuffing it with an expensive 160kW AC charger. People don’t have extra 160A 3phase plugs lying around, so you’d have to rewire your distribution hub for it anyways, and at that point, you might as well put in the more capable and shared DC charger. Also, there was no J3068 inlet on the shown semi.
EfficientWatts
Member
Distribution hubs will certainly have access to some level of 3 phase power. It doesn't have to be 160A, but rather whatever level of power they need. (DC chargers will also use 3 phase and they will suck up similar if not more power anyways for the needed charge rate). Whether Telsa would require the use of a DC charging stations remains to be seen; however I cannot see them not including some sort of A/C charging option. (Some people pointed out how some owner/operators will need to be able to charge at home, even if it would be slow, but just needs to be enough to drive to a faster charger).
I think certainly the charge rate would be an up-gradable option for A/C (just like how the Model S has dual chargers as an option). And just because the plug isn't there doesn't mean that the final car won't have it; J3068 is still to be finalized, so there's still time. And the Megaplug doesn't exactly look production ready yet either...
If 800V, then Tesla need to make: new chargers, new inverters, higher insulation classification cables and connectors, higher rated contactors and fuses, and optionally rewind the motors to match the supply voltage. If the batteries only stack to 800V during charging, you can drop the inverter and motor changes.
If you stack the packs, you run at double the voltage, but you need twice the power (two packs), so the current stays the same. That would mean they are current sharing on the pins which can go badly if one wears. So they could make the megacharger such that it has four outputs with independent current control and provide two feeds to each pair of temporarily stacked batteries.
Technically, I suppose superchargers are floating relative to ground, in which case, they might be stackable also.
Seems like liquid cooled cable would be simpler.
If the semi requires 1.6 kW/mile (.36 cDrag, 14ft high, 8.5 ft wide, running wide base tires is 1.51 kW/mile @ 80k/ 60 MPH so this is doable) then 400 miles of range is 640 kWh. With a 800 kWh battery made of 4 packs, each 200 kWh pack would charge at 320 kW to achieve 400 miles in 30 minutes. This is only 1.6 C, and takes 10 superchargers worth of capacity. Needs a cable that can handle 800 Amps, such as 3/0 or 4/0 welding cable, or smaller gauge liquid cooled. 8 cables will be heavy regardless, so I foresee a support arm to carry the weight. mounted to the charger stand.
sammyfan711
Member
I keep thinking they have to be able to use the existing tesla standard connectors as a backup - a 100amp Wall Charger should be able to trickle charge it
Maybe 2 100amp connections available at once to give some decent range overnight and the ability to access 2 superchargers at once in a pinch for a full charge in a few hours
Tesla would charge for this of course and the practice would not make economic sense (it would likely be at least twice the 7 cents per kilowatt hour) but a truck on a less traveled route may need to.
Then a separate megacharger plug to get the full juice when it is available at a reasonable rate
Maybe 2 100amp connections available at once to give some decent range overnight and the ability to access 2 superchargers at once in a pinch for a full charge in a few hours
Tesla would charge for this of course and the practice would not make economic sense (it would likely be at least twice the 7 cents per kilowatt hour) but a truck on a less traveled route may need to.
Then a separate megacharger plug to get the full juice when it is available at a reasonable rate
Too many guys who work in offices are thinking of a way to convince the wife that a deposit on a semi makes sense. "But Honey, the kids will love it. And we already have the charger!".
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
Too many guys who work in offices are thinking of a way to convince the wife that a deposit on a semi makes sense. "But Honey, the kids will love it. And we already have the charger!".
even bobtail it takes something like 3 normal parking spaces if you park it rotated 90 degrees. And then you need a row of 5 spaces open to be able to pull in and out of the 3 you'd block by parallel parking in a perpendicular row. If you try and perpendicular park in the perpendicular parking space you stick out at least half a car length into the lane. If you try and parallel park in a parallel parking space it sticks out into the lane at least half a cars width.
I could see using one if you gave it to me for free. I could megacharge once a month and drive it to and from work. Park way out on the 7th row. But I sure wouldn't pay retail price to do that.
If two charger modules are in series, voltage will double. No need to design from ground up.
Tesla definitely doesn't make cables. Difference between 600V and 1000V insulation is not that great though they are different.
Tesla might have used 1000V rated cables everywhere.
Drivetrains are definitely from Model 3 (different reduction gear), so 400VDC input it is
Mostly, but there are still the issues of isolation and protection voltage ratings. Even with isolated lab supplies, there is a max limit from terminal to chassis.
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