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Tesla backing away from "Phone Key as primary key"

Discussion in 'Model 3: User Interface' started by watilo, Jul 25, 2018.

?

How often does Phone Key work for you?

  1. Android - 100% of the time

    12.4%
  2. Android - 75%-99% of the time

    15.0%
  3. Android - <75% of the time

    7.4%
  4. iPhone - 100% of the time

    40.5%
  5. iPhone - 75%-99% of the time

    21.1%
  6. iPhone - <75% of the time

    3.6%
  1. kavyboy

    kavyboy Member

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    #21 kavyboy, Jul 25, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
    I have cancelled this week because of the phone key. I can't see myself hassling with this every time I want to enter and exit the car. If Tesla produces a key fob, I would consider buying again.
    It made me sad to cancel.
     
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  2. watilo

    watilo Member

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    This thread has gotten a little out of hand. I created the poll to gauge whether Tesla built their software modeled around iPhones. It looks like they have, and I'm pretty sure now that I'd have better success if I switched.

    I'm sure the internal conclusion at Tesla is that if everybody used an iPhone, everything would be perfect. Unfortunately this isn't reality. (It's similar to those of us in the web development world - you can't ignore Internet Explorer just because you don't use it. It had a big market share for a long time.)

    Is Tesla going to change everything? Probably not. But it's asinine for them to change their official stance because the technology they led with doesn't work as reliably. I'm sure this is to hedge their risk of litigation. (If the primary key doesn't work, uh oh! So let's call it the backup method and then we're fine!)

    It all comes down to communication. If Tesla admitted to treating us as beta testers, that'd be one thing. But treating those of us - many of us who are technologists - like we don't know anything about cars or technology and keeping us in the dark about problems that are very real to us, is downright insulting.
     
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  3. iwannam3

    iwannam3 Member

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    We are beta testers. And the testing shows the phone as a key as it currently is configured, is a failure. At a minimum the app should test whatever features it requires, OS version, version of BLE, trusted device, etc etc and confirm that it will work on the phone or not work. So instead of being frustrated with the operation on a sub-optimal phone, you would use the card or buy a new phone. Tesla should have published a list of 100% reliable phones. (If they actually exist) Ok the $999 I-phone X is probably the most mentioned phone that works.
     
  4. AustinPowers

    AustinPowers Total Smeghead

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    Are you serious?
    Since when is Tesla concerned with reducing the costs for their customers? And in any case, how can you lose a keyfob? I've driven cars for almost a quarter of a century and have yet to find a way to lose a keyfob. If you do, it shouldn't be of the carmakers' concern. And 500 Dollars for a fob? Seriously? What kind of car do you drive, Bugatti, Ferrari, Rolls? Even a Porsche replacement keyfob is less than 250 Euro!
     
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  5. AustinPowers

    AustinPowers Total Smeghead

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    #25 AustinPowers, Jul 25, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
    Let's recap: Tesla has working keyfobs for the S and the X.
    So they needlessly re-engineered something that worked when designing the 3, just to cheap out on an essential item like the fob, which costs them more to produce than the keycard (obviously, since the card also doesn't offer any of the convenience features of a fob, like pressing a button to open the trunk or frunk).
    Instead, they gave us the phone-app as a key, saying that "you are a funky tech-savvy person because there can't possibly be any other reason in the world why you would buy a BEV. So you must of course have a smartphone as well and love messing around with its settings, etc.".

    Hey McFly, get this, there are people who hate smartphones, abhore (a)social media, yet care for the environment or have a multitude of other reasons for buying a BEV even though they don't have a smartphone. After all, a car is a car, electric propulsion is just a different kind of engine, and for many people, the advantages of that are enough reason for switching from a conventional ICE.

    Why do you have to be a nerd to buy a BEV? BMW styled the i3 and i8 with that mindset, Tesla engineers its UI with it in mind. Guess what, far more people would change to BEVs if they were just like your normal car, only with a battery and electric drivetrain with all its advantages.
     
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  6. ratsbew

    ratsbew Member

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    Where's the option for Android - <10%.....Phone Key SUCKS!!! I knew this would be a problem going into it so I'm not surprised, but is still isn't a great thing.
     
  7. Boourns

    Boourns Active Member

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    I don't understand this. Lack of a traditional fob is really a deal breaker on what most people agree is a great car?
     
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  8. andremc

    andremc Member

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    Here’s what I don’t get about the feigned outrage: you do have a fob that works 100% of the time. It’s shaped like a credit card and fits in your wallet.

    The vast majority of people in this country who own cars (or are in the market for THIS car) have a smartphone. Should the tech work better across all phones? Of course. But there are known failures. Which is why they give you a backup option so that you’re never locked out of your car.

    Think of your current (non-Tesla) car. If the fob fails, what do you do? You use the physics key to do what you need to do. It’s the same as the key card.

    This isn’t a care where you didn’t develop for IE. It’s a case where you develop for FF/Chrome, and offer a slightly different experience for IE which, while a little less aesthetically pleasuring, still meets all the development requirements.

    Lastly, the phone is still the primary key. Here’s a snippet of the email I got from my delivery agent the other day.

    Again, if the phone key isn’t your taste or isn’t working as well as advertised for you, that’s fine. But let’s not pretend that they didn’t give you another key that works perfectly fine to do everything you need.
     

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  9. apacheguy

    apacheguy S Sig #255

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    Hmm. Was this with a Model S or X? The Model S fob has been 100% reliable for me. The only time I’ve heard of issues is when there is a large amount of RF interference (e.g. you are right next to a radio station).
     
  10. apacheguy

    apacheguy S Sig #255

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    The card is not nearly as convenient.

    1) you have to reach inside your pocket and extract your wallet. If you are carrying grocery/shopping bags this is another couple steps as you have to set those down.

    2) a great feature about Tesla’s is the auto-lock. With the card, you have to remember to lock it because it won’t do so manually. As a Model S owner, never having to worrry about the car locking, I have walked away from my 3 not realizing it was unlocked because I used the card.
     
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  11. andremc

    andremc Member

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    Not an S or X owner. Speaking of my lifetime experience with other cars.
     
  12. andremc

    andremc Member

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    I agree about convenience, but that’s different from not having an alternative to the phone. Until we got our Model 3, I had to reach into my pocket for my wife’s key to her Honda Civic any time I went to the car. Inconvenient, but that’s the way cars have historically worked. That’s why I’m baffled by the outrage when people have to use the card. It’s the same exact thing, only a different shape.
     
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  13. ThosEM

    ThosEM Space Weatherman

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    My biggest frustration with the phone key is caused by the fact that we also have a Model S, and when the phone app is set to that car, it won't work with the Model 3. Go figure. Whenever it appears not to work, I can be pretty sure that I was stalking my wife and forgot to set it back to the Model 3 that I drive.
     
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  14. rdlink

    rdlink Member

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    You must have had some crappy cars. I have had remote fobs on everything from a 1993 Camry, to several other Toyotas, to several BMWs, as well as renting dozens of cars in my travels. I have NEVER had a key fob fail even one time for me, other than when a battery ran down.

    85% reliability for the phone key is completely unacceptable. And the card is a poor backup. The phone key is obviously not ready for primetime yet. I'm confident it will be someday. In the meantime I would have paid an extra $500 on the price of the car to have a reliable key fob as a backup/primary.
     
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  15. dusdev

    dusdev Member

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    I've been on the fence with my model 3 order since Ontario cancelled the rebate. I've been weighing the negatives of the car vs. the positives to decide whether to cancel my order. One of the big negatives is the lack of a key fob. I'm in technology and I understand the problems with BT wireless connections. I have an August door lock that works 90% of the time. The 10% of the time it doesn't work, the annoyance is huge. I can imagine with my car it will be a similar disappointing experience. I've currently drive a car with a wireless fob with a small door handle button. Over the past 7+ years, I think it's failed 1-2 times, and it was due to a low fob battery. So the success rate is close to 99.9999%.

    Let's face it.. the Model 3 is a fine car. If it wasn't an electric car, it would probably be considered a basic, entry level vehicle. The lack of fob just re-enforced this for me. It may just be the camel that pushes me to cancel my order, tbh.
     
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  16. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

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    Your missing out on a great car. Yes I have an iPhone and occasionally I need to pull it out before the car unlocks. But 19 out of 20 times it works flawlessly. The 1 out of 20 I pull the phone out like I would do with a key fob. I answered less than 99%. The only time I have had to use the card is when I turn my phone off or I have left it in the house.
     
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  17. rdlink

    rdlink Member

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    But it doesn't really work. Numerous people have demonstrated that. When the back seats didn't work they re-engineered them.
     
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  18. rdlink

    rdlink Member

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    Because this is 2018, and we have moved beyond that technology. Especially in $65,000 cars.
     
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  19. dusdev

    dusdev Member

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    I don't remember seeing anywhere in the marketting material that said you need an iPhone to have a good experience with the Model 3. I have an Android phone and have no desire to switch to iOS. Based on the survey, Android phones don't work as well. What if it only worked 15/20 times for you? What about 10/20 times? What is the limit where you'd be disappointed with the feature?
     
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  20. andremc

    andremc Member

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    Honda, Toyota, Nissan, and Infiniti. All have required more than one key press on multiple occasions. That, by definition, is a failure.

    And why is they key card a poor back up? It does exactly what it’s intended to do - the same way that my physical key does on my Infiniti when I pull it out of the key fob.
     
    • Disagree x 2

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