Tesla banned me from purchasing another Tesla after vehicle buyback

[croman]

Can we lay off the ellipses? Quality control on punctuation would be appreciated. One period or a comma usually does it.

 

[croman]

No, it hasn't. If you can point to one case of someone having a successful UV treatment reporting the problem returning and getting charged for the treatment, I'll eat my hat.

My service center told me they will charge me $13.50 exactly if it ever comes back. That's apparently the cost in their system.

EDIT: I think that's quite reasonable. I don't expect the issue will come back. The eMMC issue is another matter entirely.

 

[r1200gs4ok]

LOL...wtf!

You have some ideology in your head that safety equals to quality or quality equals to safety.

Safety is everyone's job in a medical device company and in an auto maker.

Quality Assurance is making parts to spec. You may have some idea of what each spec means. But so does R&D, so does manufacuring, so does Clinical in my case. Not everyone's idea align.

The fact that you think about taking stands against your colleagues tells me you don't operate in a cross-functional environment. And this shouldn't be how a healthy company works.

We do have cross-function teams throughout manufacturing, engineering, quality, procurement and sales....you have to be a crazy if you think my position equates quality to safety or that quality equals safety......but I bow down to someone of your esteemed knowledge and expertise in quality assurance, quality control or cost of quality...but its obvious to me you do not understand the principle of quality control vs quality assurance.....there is a difference you know....

I believe there are basically three types quality.....Medical, Aerospace/Military and commercial/automotive.....all have the same areas that need to be covered....Medical is the toughest because of ISO 138485 requirement and ISO calibration.....However, just ask the astronauts about space issues...Remember that very inexpensive o-ring that failed on launch and people were killed? not to mention the millions of dollars lost in equipment.....as I have mentioned before, I have personal experience and knowledge of military parts quality and its repercussions and death....kind of something I take personal and despise it when people say, oh, its off just a little, doesn’t matter......it appeared that something was wrong with the o-ring, procurement or installation process.....you can read the full report in your spare time....

my company is a 1B dollar company for both medical lasers, military products and commercial lasers...we sell worldwide....we are solely owned and have no debt.....we are both ISO-13845, IOS 17025 and ISO-9000 certified and welcome the annual audits and re-certs every 4 years.....we also have a fully implemented ESD program......in addition, we have a number of Quality Black Belts and continuous improvement teams...........all are cross-functional and regularly contribute to cost of quality and cost reduction with their team submissions

Yes, I do take stands against my colleagues when it comes to safety and quality....thats why I report to the CEO directly.....this insures that there is no conflict of interest when it comes to $$$ at the end of the month and quarter and threat of sub-standard product reaching the market which in the case of medical lasers could cause grave personal injury or death. This is also why, after 20 years flying jet aircraft for the Marine Corps and 30 years of civilian employment in both military, space and commercial companies like Hughes Aircraft, ITT Cannon (Military), Boeing Space and my current Laser company, I refuse to accept anything less than that which our customer has paid for and my team tried to insure compliance to processes and practices through training and auditing....Taking corrective action when appropriate and stopping product from shipping that fails to meet not only our standards but more importantly the customers

If, as you say you are in the medical industry and you don't have the same respect/regard for your customer requirements, federal standards or you own company standards as they apply to your company products. Again, you may want to refresh yourself with the differences between quality assurance and quality control...

and as far as Tesla goes, safety in their plant is paramount...especially when working around their particular equipment of robotics and the batteries....I am sure they pay very close attention to it......I know they do, because I have visited the factory in Fremont.....but they still need to pay more close attention to detail in the manual manufacturing processes and the inspection processes......if they do, we may not so so many obvious issues when brand new cars arrive with obvious defects in paint and workmanship as reported not only here but directly to Tesla.... again don't get me wrong, I love my 2 cars and would not go back to ICE cars.....I just hope for my future truck, that the quality control inspections processes get fine-tuned.....

 

[chilman408]

LOL...wtf!

You have some ideology in your head that safety equals to quality or quality equals to safety.

Safety is everyone's job in a medical device company and in an auto maker.

Quality Assurance is making parts to spec. You may have some idea of what each spec means. But so does R&D, so does manufacuring, so does Clinical in my case. Not everyone's idea align.

The fact that think about taking stands tells me you don't operate in a cross-functional environment. And this shouldn't be how a healthy company works.

We do have cross-function teams throughout manufacturing, engineering, quality, procurement and sales....you have to be a crazy if you think my position equates quality to safety or that quality equals safety......but I bow down to someone of your esteemed knowledge and expertise in quality assurance, quality control or cost of quality...but its obvious to me you do not understand the principle of quality control vs quality assurance.....there is a difference you know....

I believe there are basically three types quality.....Medical, Aerospace/Military and commercial/automotive.....all have the same areas that need to be covered....Medical is the toughest because of ISO 138485 requirement and ISO calibration.....However, just ask the astronauts about space issues...Remember that very inexpensive o-ring that failed on launch and people were killed? not to mention the millions of dollars lost in equipment.....as I have mentioned before, I have personal experience and knowledge of military parts quality and its repercussions and death....kind of something I take personal and despise it when people say, oh, its off just a little, doesn’t matter......it appeared that something was wrong with the o-ring, procurement or installation process.....you can read the full report in your spare time....

my company is a 1B dollar company for both medical lasers, military products and commercial lasers...we sell worldwide....we are solely owned and have no debt.....we are both ISO-13845, IOS 17025 and ISO-9000 certified and welcome the annual audits and re-certs every 4 years.....we also have a fully implemented ESD program......in addition, we have a number of Quality Black Belts and continuous improvement teams...........all are cross-functional and regularly contribute to cost of quality and cost reduction with their team submissions

Yes, I do take stands against my colleagues when it comes to safety and quality....thats why I report to the CEO directly.....this insures that there is no conflict of interest when it comes to $$$ at the end of the month and quarter and threat of sub-standard product reaching the market which in the case of medical lasers could cause grave personal injury or death. This is also why, after 20 years flying jet aircraft for the Marine Corps and 30 years of civilian employment in both military, space and commercial companies like Hughes Aircraft, ITT Cannon (Military), Boeing Space and my current Laser company, I refuse to accept anything less than that which our customer has paid for and my team tried to insure compliance to processes and practices through training and auditing....Taking corrective action when appropriate and stopping product from shipping that fails to meet not only our standards but more importantly the customers

If, as you say you are in the medical industry and you don't have the same respect/regard for your customer requirements, federal standards or you own company standards as they apply to your company products. Again, you may want to refresh yourself with the differences between quality assurance and quality control...

and as far as Tesla goes, safety in their plant is paramount...especially when working around their particular equipment of robotics and the batteries....I am sure they pay very close attention to it......I know they do, because I have visited the factory in Fremont.....but they still need to pay more close attention to detail in the manual manufacturing processes and the inspection processes......if they do, we may not so so many obvious issues when brand new cars arrive with obvious defects in paint and workmanship as reported not only here but directly to Tesla.... again don't get me wrong, I love my 2 cars and would not go back to ICE cars.....I just hope for my future truck, that the quality control inspections processes get fine-tuned.....

Wow...lol...it is clear to me that you don't understand quality does not equal to safety.

Quality engineers are not trained to do safety engineering. Neither does the ISO certs you cited; they only support parts need to meet spec (think who sets the specs).

So what is all this about taking a stand against collegues and reporting directly to the CEO??! LOL...To assume you have better understanding (of say only safety) than R&D, Mfg, or Clinical in my case is a bit delusional and a bit self-important...I wouldn't think any CEO would want such a direct report.

(Not to mention that you're ASSUMING everyone else are here to make a buck, except for you, the hero in Quality)

This much ranting only tells me that you're not in a Quality role and only have some idealistic view of what a Quality role should be. I am currently doing this job.

And this ranting side-tracks from the OP.

 

[Rogue Synapse]

nope....you missed my point..........the cost of quality is something that every company must decide for itself.....but quality should be, as you pointed out, a part of business decision making.....most companies are too small and their margins are to small to fully implement and sustain ISO-9000 or ISO 13485.....these quality issues are when your customers start demanding that your company be ISO certified.....and your suppliers be certified....those costs are always part of the cost of doing business and the cost of quality......for most companies, the issue is the related resources associated with ISO implementation and sustaining the program....resources for the medical industry are vastly different than say commercial business and to some degree the automotive industry....

Just like when the supply chain wants to save money...most go to the cheapest supplier regardless of suppler rating or quality system implemented.....I won’t argue with you about what any companies intent or interest is in ISO implementation, but most companies I know are interested in making money and profits for stock holders......bottom line......their quality system implementation at time gets cloudy......I’ll bet you that most companies do not have a cost of quality program......why........because it is a engineering and production issues and those kind of efforts do not make or produce parts.......thats why most time when you get an RMA return and request for corrective action, everybody looks to quality to find out what happened and research the problem and fix it when in reality it is really the manufacturing and or engineering departments responsibility....they design and produce parts......I believe in a simple phrase that really speaks to the quality level of participation in may company: QA squared.........quality assist and quality audit......quality does not make parts or shippable systems.....

But to increase profits, a company must be willing to avoid and decrease quality costs, customer rejections, and poor customer perception...and to do this, I believe a company must have a willingness for continuous improvement through out every process it has....from order taking to customer delivery and to eliminate problems before they start......and that take resources not necessarily associated with action hands on product production.....

there are times when quality should make a stand...for example when a product fails final ATP or does not meet customer specifications or military specs.....sales says they need the money for the month.....production needs it to reach a goal.....but if sent, there is a good chance that it may return......hurting customer perception and if military parts, they could fail and cause death....thats why quality should not be reporting to manufacturing or production in any way......too much conflict of interest as described above....( I know of this because I had to punch out of a A6E when we had a bad part installed......my co-pilot was killed.....investigation showed it had failed final test and was accepted thru the companies MRB process that excluded the proper DCASPRO participation)

So, to end this, I believe Tesla in a great car.....I own a Model 3 and new Raven S......but over the long run, for Tesla to improve quality, there is a point where cost now must be seriously taken into account.....continuous improvement and reduction of production errors and quality issues can only be reduced if Elan Musk requires it.....just like he has done the Space-X projects......you don't see the issues there that you see in the the cars....its is a growing pain that will, I hope be remedied because this car is not going to go away...nor is Tesla.....we just hope issues and problems get fixed sooner rather than later

holy ellipsis, batman

 

[r1200gs4ok]

Wow...lol...it is clear to me that you don't understand quality does not equal to safety.

Quality engineers are not trained to do safety engineering. Neither does the ISO certs you cited; they only support parts need to meet spec (think who sets the specs).

This much ranting only tells me that you're not in a Quality role and only have some idealistic view of what a Quality role should be. I am currently doing this job.

And this ranting side-tracks from the OP.

you the only fake here....not going to waste my time on an idiot who does not know the difference between quality control and quality assurance

holy ellipsis, batman

hey....glad you like it

 

[CraigE1965]

There would be no fraud (and I don't know why you assume creditors, my guess is the car was not paid for, either had a loan or lease).
In a situation where Joe bought a car and paid 100% of it to Tesla (no lease, no loan), Joe can sell the car to his best friend or whomever he chooses for any price and of course taxes must be paid. This is not fraud at all. You're saying if I own a 2010 Ford that has a blue book value of $7900, I can't sell it to my poor uncle or friend for $5000, $500, $1? Sure I can, it happens thousands of times a day, is legal, and taxes are due. This has gotten off topic from OP, and I agree that if Tesla didn't want to deal with him he should buy another vehicle. But to "ban" him is silly, bad P.R., and as I said ANYONE can buy a Tesla (pay 100%) and sell it to whomever they want for whatever price they want. This is not fraud as the buyer is not doing anything illegal. How many parents just buy their kids a car on their 16th birthday? I know a grandparent that just put a car on their grandkids driveway for his 16th. Do you think grandpa made the kid pay $40k for the car? No, he would sell it to the kids father for $1, pay the gift taxes and any other applicable taxes and be done. This happens all the time. I think we are assuming OP's car was financed or leased, when I am assuming it is 100% paid for.

 

[chilman408]

holy ellipsis, batman

it is clear he doesn't understand what ellipsis is or how to use it...lol

 

[linux-works]

it is clear he doesn't understand what ellipsis is or how to use it...lol

.... . // -- ..- ... - // .-.. .. -.- . // -- --- .-. ... . // -.-. --- -.. .

 

[dannycamps]

holy... ...ellipsis..., ...batman...

There, I fixed it for you.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

Who’s the moderator on this thread?

 

[vegas888]

So OP bought car for $100k , complained about some issues that should be covered by WARRANTY and Tesla is mad about that? Am I missing something here? I mean, ok you can be a Tesla fanboy , you can say your car never needs service and its best car you ever owned, but c'mon, this is out of control. My neighbor is selling her MX and going back to ICE car only because of poor car quality and issues with service center. Our local Tesla service center has a LOT of negative reviews on yelp. Who is going to buy new Tesla after reading all that?

 

[whitex]

My service center told me they will charge me $13.50 exactly if it ever comes back. That's apparently the cost in their system.

EDIT: I think that's quite reasonable. I don't expect the issue will come back. The eMMC issue is another matter entirely.

While the amount is very low, token fee really (assuming they provide a loaner for the service), it is still not reasonable. Reasonable is to cover it under warranty as the manufacturing defect that it is.

 

[AdamMacDon]

Wow, that is quite a tale. Even for Tesla, that is shockingly awful customer service. I love my car, but man I wish the service here was even half as good as Honda or KIA, nevermind a luxury car manufacturer in the same price range.

 

[croman]

While the amount is very low, token fee really (assuming they provide a loaner for the service), it is still not reasonable. Reasonable is to cover it under warranty as the manufacturing defect that it is.

My warranty (50k miles, 4 years) is done. They did the screen "goodwill" the first time though I reported the issue 2 years ago while under warranty but all subsequent visits are their rate.

I don't mind paying 13.50 instead of buying UV lamps and doing it myself just because they've figured out the best spectra and acquired a proper size box.

 

[dannycamps]

As far as recurrence of the yellowing goes, I am hoping it doesn't return but from what I can say my car (build date 1/2019 purchase in 6/2019) has now spent more of its life without a yellow border than it did with one.

Back on topic - the issue wasn't Tesla addressing the items under warranty. The issue was the OP using social media as a foot on the neck and quite possibly violating some NDA terms in the process.

 

[alcibiades]

Buybacks have an NDA, BTW.

Mine did not. I was astonished.

 

[BulldogsRus]

Unfortunately I don't know both sides of this story, because Tesla employees never share their side of it.

I'm not saying that Tesla is right, and not saying that testhrowaway is lying or painting a worse picture on this forum than the reality. But with Tesla's response it's obvious there's a subjective understanding among their employees that testhrowaway is a buyer they can never satisfy.

If they honestly think that they cannot satisfy you, they have the full right to refuse to sell you another vehicle. If they think they are right, it's a good decision for them, to reduce frustration for their employees fighting over the potential flaws on the new vehicle.

Even if you aren't necessarily a bad customer, there are other customers that no matter how hard the company tries will never be satisfied. Yet they always come back to buy new vehicles. Filtering out these customers when you can is a good way to do business, and saves them a lot of frustration.

Truth be told, Tesla has done a lot of shady *sugar* despite claiming to be the "anti-stealership", i.e. "that is normal wear/tear, that is within spec, dropping CPO, remote removal of Performance/Ludicrous mode after a sale, etc". The problem with this thinking is that they are the newcomer to the market, and the reality is that the big boys are ACTIVELY working to bring EVs to market as we speak. It's just a matter of time until people get fed up with their "my way or the highway" way of doing things. Trust me, for all Elon's talk of creating Tesla to adopt full EV use for ALL manufacturers, deep down he doesn't want to see someone else eat his cake.

 

[BulldogsRus]

So OP bought car for $100k , complained about some issues that should be covered by WARRANTY and Tesla is mad about that? Am I missing something here? I mean, ok you can be a Tesla fanboy , you can say your car never needs service and its best car you ever owned, but c'mon, this is out of control. My neighbor is selling her MX and going back to ICE car only because of poor car quality and issues with service center. Our local Tesla service center has a LOT of negative reviews on yelp. Who is going to buy new Tesla after reading all that?

THIS is the biggest issue, for those that don't have the option to choose from multiple service centers within a reasonable distance your only option is either to suck up the bad service or choose another manufacturer. Most people don't even think to see how well the service center runs, they're just excited to finally own a Tesla they completely overlook that aspect until it's too late.

 

[Tam]

...The issue was the OP using social media as a foot on the neck and quite possibly violating some NDA terms in the process.

Yes, "possible" is the keyword because if you read the yellow border screen thread, there is no such Non Disclosure Agreement terms.

If you read the buyback agreement in this case, there's no Non-Disclosure Agreement term either.

Even when there's a specific Non Disclosure Agreement clause, the NHTSA frowned on the practice and slapped Tesla with the word "unacceptable" and "expects Tesla to eliminate any such language".

"Possible" is still a possibility but not a reality in this particular banned case.