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Tesla BEV Competition Developments
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I also have a problem with their claims about "battery efficiency".
skitown
Member
Jovian
Member
Sorry I left that detail out, I had read that they chose to software limit the 60 because sales were low.
Sean Wagner
Member
I've been thinking for a while a good approach by Ford, at least when it comes to upscale EVs, would be to acquire stakes in both Lucid [for Lincoln] and Rivian, with a view to later sole ownership. Provided they managed to keep their classic car hierarchy very carefully contained. Money well spent now. Lucid looks like an excellent match product wise, seeing how Lincoln's character is meant to ev-olve. While Rivian's team probably is closest to compatibility with conventional industry procedures.
"Frunkini".
Or else it's just "GagaFUDdery".
Keep em coming.
skitown
Member
But other than all these errors, I'm sure the analysis is totally sound! LOL
SebastianR
Active Member
SebastianR
Active Member
Yea, interesting to watch. Audi seems awesome in the noise insulation, suck on the energy consumption and be a mix with regards to pretty much all other aspects (I'm not doing the 1 hour video justice - everyone should watch it themselves- the car seems to still be pretty buggy in terms of software...)
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skitown
Member
Seems like a favorable review overall, but to quote Bjorn, "it's soooo thirsty" that I think it will disappoint many first time EV buyers here in the US, where we drive fast for long distances, with cars full of stuff. Especially in the west (non CA) where there are large gaps in charging infrastructure. I have friends up where I live that are interested in it and I don't believe they understand the realities of the eTron's range. And the moment they encounter a charging hassle like Bjorn did they won't have the patience for it. It will be relegated to a "glorified AWD Nissan Leaf city car" for them. They simply don't understand how much of an asset the Supercharging network is for long distance travel.
That taper is incredible. 80 kW all the way to 90%? still at 40 kW at 99%? Almost makes up for the really high consumption...
The LR did an OK job with the M/kWh column, but it used the 35k price from the base model to determine the cost per M/kWh so it lost there. None of the results for the Model 3 in the last column were correct.
During the last cc, Elon was asked specifically about the price differential between ice and EV powertrains.
This was his answer, " The - that said, in terms of initial cost of acquisition, I think it's probably - this is just off the top of my head, not a calculated number, probably on the order of 7k but trending towards 4k or 5k. It's off the top of my head."
Considering that a current ev Niro has a $15k difference with its hybrid version this makes sense. Tesla has about an $8k cost advantage in powertrain prices. Using elons estimates for scaled ev powertrain prices puts a scaled ev Niro at about $25k. A lean Chinese manufacturer could probably do something similar for about $20k.
I think it's only a few years until we start seeing those prices.
It is bad form to put range numbers on different measuring systems in the same table.
Should be... Audi E-tron, 220 (est)
Taycan 225 (est)
Furthermore, Taycan is likely starting closer to $90k.
I rated you funny because I think you're making fun of the estimated range of the Taycan. Is there anything know about the Taycan's efficiency yet?
Even if they would share the same powertrain (which I don't think), I don't think the eTron's and Taycan's efficiency are similar.
I have long thought about whether non-Tesla cars are fundamentally much worse in efficiency or not. I think no. Look at these numbers (consumption in kWh/100km at 120km/h which is ~75mph):
Ioniq: 14.4
Model 3: 14.7
e-Golf: 15
Kona: 16.6
Leaf: 17.1
Zoe: 17.3
Model S: 25?
Model X: ??
e-tron: 35?
The Hyundais seem to have an efficient powertrain. The Jaguar (unfortunately I don't have a number) is said to have very bad efficiency.
I believe the e-tron just has bad aerodynamics and a large frontal area, probably in addition to an inefficient powertrain. The Taycan will certainly have a smaller frontal area and better Cd value, which alone will make it's consumption much better.
I do believe it's range will be not great: They're avoiding the topic so far, preferring to talk about charging speed.
Most of the cars on that list are a fair bit smaller than any of Tesla's offerings. In the US the EPA comes up with efficiencies that are obtainable if you're careful. I can get EPA range with my S 90D during warmer parts of the year.
They have tested the i-Pace, but not the eTron or Taycan.
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