Tesla buying money guilt :-(

[Snowy77]

OK it's a slight porky, on the fuel bit. I work over at Canary Wharf, but since lockdown almost permanently working from home. I do have a motorbike which I'm thinking of selling that used to be my main transport in to the wharf, it's a masterpiece at traffic evasion. Dartford tunnel / Blackwall tunnel every day... ugggh... so if anyone here wants the last of the Kawasaki Ninja ZX6R 636s give me a shout lol (it's black!, and is a missile).

Anyway.. With working from home the normal now, I'm sitting here with my 5 screens, and one dedicated to TMC, i'm spending NOTHING on travel. I know it's a contradiction to my earlier post, but before lockdown it was pretty much £50 a day to work at the wharf, including food, fuel, parking, double that if we hit a bar that evening which was pretty regular. I just consider that part of the outgoing which I no longer have. I still eat etc, so £50 a week is fair.

The savings working from home go much further. and over the last two years I have saved more than ever in my 25 years of working full time. This has allowed me to stump up the 15k downer. That's the mental hurdle over. Now I had to work out the £500 pm, which is where the man-maths came in. Clearing debts and mitigation all ok. The contentious fuel bit was more of an ICE mentality. I did see my brother up in Manchester not too long ago, and that was the best part of £100 return journey in fuel. The Fuel bit is a definitely a consideration for most people switching to an EV.

Now if only I can get the Mrs BACK TO WORK. Once she starts to pay her way again, and not live off my Tesla fund, we'll actually be NET positive per month after payments to Tesla.

Mitigated the balloon after 3 / 4 years. May trade in may keep... No idea yet. Got some chunky investment portfolios that should outright a new car or pay off this one.. which ever it is.

We'll see.

I think my point is that where there's a will, there's a way. Easy to focus on caution, but, you lose sight on the positives and the NET gains in all this, and it doesn't all have to be money related.

 

[C225]

So I agree with what you're saying. The only thing I find makes the man maths hard is the fuel savings bit. To be saving £50/week by driving an EV you have to be putting a lot of miles on it... twice the annual average I'm guessing? So for every extra bit of saving through fuel savings you'll be losing a bit more through depreciation due to your car being high mileage when you sell it. Of course, if you're a high mileage driver then that depreciation is something you have to deal with whatever car you drive, but 50% depreciation on a £25k car is obviously easier on the pocket than 50% depreciation in a £50k car.

Ignoring the depreciation the fuel saving are probably more than that, I'm on average 1000k a month and in my old reasonably economical Merc CLA with a mpg of 48 was £150 a month before prices were as high as they are now. Same in my Tesla on my home charging with cheap overnight tariff is about £15.

 

[PITA]

In my opinion, it's madness to be sat on a load of cash... whats the point?

So long as you're not poor... go spend it on stuff that makes you experience life and have fun.

Don't be reckless to the point of losing your home, but anything else, get out there and do it.

When you earn, you're taxed by the Government

When you die, you're taxed by the Government

They're already living their lives on your money.

My brother died, aged 42. Had 6 months to live... could literally have been the story of any of us. Had just 20 years of his adult life to play with.

 

[Snowy77]

My brother died, aged 42. Had 6 months to live... could literally have been the story of any of us.

I'm desperately sorry to hear this.

Potent and pertinent advice from PITA.

 

[PITA]

I'm desperately sorry to hear this.

Well actually, don't be.

He was a really good looking blonde version of me

Fantastic personality, everybody loved him. His funeral was massive. Made us all think about this life opportunity we have.

He was very lucky to not take work too seriously, and got out a lot, travelling the World. I'm so very glad he did it. Got some great cheeky photo's of him around the World on his Adventures.

If he'd have died with a ton of cash in the bank, slave to a desk all his working life, I would have cried a lot more...

 

[AutomaticMan]

Fantastic personality, everybody loved him. His funeral was massive. Made us all think about this life opportunity we have.

He sounds like a great guy PITA, and I'm sorry I didn't get to meet him. Thanks for posting this, as it really is important to keep sight of this perspective. At my funeral I hope people are exchanging tales of all the travels I've done on my motorbike and will hopefully still do in the Tesla, rather than commenting on how healthy my investment portfolio was looking!

 

[AutomaticMan]

Ignoring the depreciation the fuel saving are probably more than that, I'm on average 1000k a month and in my old reasonably economical Merc CLA with a mpg of 48 was £150 a month before prices were as high as they are now. Same in my Tesla on my home charging with cheap overnight tariff is about £15.

Oh yes, possibly true as I'm basing what I'm saying about fuel costs I'd figured out the last time I owned an ICE car which is a good few years ago now. The savings probably are greater these days as you say. I should work that out for myself at some point to put a smile on my face from EV ownership. Not that I need another smile on my face from EV ownership, as they are so much better to drive than an ICE car I could never go back.

I did see my brother up in Manchester not too long ago, and that was the best part of £100 return journey in fuel. The Fuel bit is a definitely a consideration for most people switching to an EV.

This is something I've really noticed about moving to an EV. You are far more inclined to just travel across the country to see friends or families on the spur of the moment than you are in an ICE car. When I had an ICE car I'd be thinking "hmm... I've had an expensive month, I'd have to fill the car up again to do it, I think I might leave going to see them until next month..." a fair amount. In an EV I'm like "It'll be a few quid added to my monthly electricity bill... no big deal, let's go!" Now, if you really crunched the numbers you'd have to admit that the EV cost you more to buy/finance in the first place, so maybe you're not actually saving much/anything after all. But the psychology of it seeming to reduce big trip costs makes you more likely to take big trips and enjoy yourself. In my experience anyway.

 

[pharwood]

But another part of me feels sick at the idea of blowing £50k on a car.

Lease it or HP. Invest whatever is left.

 

[pgkevet]

This is something I've really noticed about moving to an EV. You are far more inclined to just travel across the country to see friends or families on the spur of the moment than you are in an ICE car. When I had an ICE car I'd be thinking "hmm... I've had an expensive month, I'd have to fill the car up again to do it, I think I might leave going to see them until next month..." a fair amount. In an EV I'm like "It'll be a few quid added to my monthly electricity bill... no big deal, let's go!" Now, if you really crunched the numbers you'd have to admit that the EV cost you more to buy/finance in the first place, so maybe you're not actually saving much/anything after all. But the psychology of it seeming to reduce big trip costs makes you more likely to take big trips and enjoy yourself. In my experience anyway.

That may well change when leccy costs double and cheap rates stop being offered, although not seeing the costs racking up on the petrol pump as you fill can give a false sense of savings

 

[AutomaticMan]

That may well change when leccy costs double and cheap rates stop being offered, although not seeing the costs racking up on the petrol pump as you fill can give a false sense of savings

Yeah, it’ll be interesting to see what happens over the next few years. My overnight tariff at the moment is 5p/kWh, so even if that doubled I’d still be saving a lot versus petrol, particularly if petrol goes up too. Of course, it may more than double, who knows these days!

You’re absolutely right that it’s a false sense of savings. That’s what I mean that when you really crunch the numbers (inc. vehicle purchase price) versus ICE it may not be a saving at all. But the psychology of it I find is still that you tend to say yes more often to trips, because the cost of the trip in isolation seems less at least.

 

[EVO X]

One thing for sure owning a Tesla doesn’t save you money!!!
All the things you need to buy and keep it brand new looking costs more than any gas saving!!
Add it up!
Full matte wrap, full window tint, car wash every day, interior mat’s, cleaning products, always buying new stuff, etc….
A Tesla is a really fun money pit!!!

 

[Dommmm]

I think 50k is enough money to warrant thinking about whether to buy it or not, and I'm sure most people would be the same. I definitely was of that thought. I incidentally went for a SR+ and absolutely love it. That did help appease some anxiety as the car I bought was an ex demo and it would have been £10,000 more had I chose the LR at the time.
But I saw the investment in a few ways, as people have mentioned your fuel saving will be massive. For myself living in London it saves a huge deal on congestion and also parking is reduced massively in some places. I also considered the warranty 4 years on everything and 8 years on battery drive train as another reason to make the purchase. Above all the car is so fun to drive, since owning it earlyish last year the novelty hasn't worn off at all and I always drive it with a smile. Mine is now worth more than when I bought it which is amazing, who knows what the future values will be though.

I know this does not help you but a lot of us have them as company cars though in many cases are also the company owners. The company car tax situation is such at present that its almost crazy NOT to get a company EV right now. if you compare it with taking money out of the company, paying income tax on it and buying / leasing a personal vehicle it makes a lot of sense. The current residuals are icing on the cake but were not expected to be this good when I bought.

I will second as Jason mentioned if buying the car through your own company the incentives are amazing. This also made myself make the decision.

Good luck!

 

[BarryW]

I work as a full-time web developer and have to be in the office every day, which is a 40-mile round trip each day there and back. Currently in my ICE car it costs me around £180 a month for fuel. Add on tax and maintenance and it could easily be over £200. The Tesla is roughly only about £250 more a month for me, and it’s my dream car! My work is also offering free charging so that will help cut down the cost even more. The cost is nowhere near what most uninformed people think.

I’ve looked at the depreciation and it’s insane how little the car will devalue, it's almost as if the car is a big piggybank. I can also settle the finance at any point with my savings or even by selling the car to WBAC or similar in the absolute worst case scenario. I don’t have kids and definitely don’t plan on having any. I don't have any commitments, don’t buy any designer clothes and because of covid, I haven’t been on any holidays, which has meant I've been able to save a bigger down payment on the loan for the car.

Travelling is something I like to do more than anything and this car will make it cheaper and better than ever before, and safer too! You can't put a price on safety. I will also very much appreciate not having to run my car for 10 minutes and scrape ice off in the winter, and the autopilot in traffic jams will be a godsend.

Overall this car would do more good for my life than bad, that’s a simple way to see it, and only you, the individual can decide whether it's the right or the wrong thing to do. I won't listen to anyone telling me what to do, just make the most of your life whilst you still can!

 

[Alan J]

I work as a full-time web developer and have to be in the office every day, which is a 40-mile round trip each day there and back. Currently in my ICE car it costs me around £180 a month for fuel. Add on tax and maintenance and it could easily be over £200. The Tesla is roughly only about £250 more a month for me, and it’s my dream car! My work is also offering free charging so that will help cut down the cost even more. The cost is nowhere near what most uninformed people think.

I’ve looked at the depreciation and it’s insane how little the car will devalue, it's almost as if the car is a big piggybank. I can also settle the finance at any point with my savings or even by selling the car to WBAC or similar in the absolute worst case scenario. I don’t have kids and definitely don’t plan on having any. I don't have any commitments, don’t buy any designer clothes and because of covid, I haven’t been on any holidays, which has meant I've been able to save a bigger down payment on the loan for the car.

Travelling is something I like to do more than anything and this car will make it cheaper and better than ever before, and safer too! You can't put a price on safety. I will also very much appreciate not having to run my car for 10 minutes and scrape ice off in the winter, and the autopilot in traffic jams will be a godsend.

Overall this car would do more good for my life than bad, that’s a simple way to see it, and only you, the individual can decide whether it's the right or the wrong thing to do. I won't listen to anyone telling me what to do, just make the most of your life whilst you still can!

I've had a SR+ for almost 30 Months and have used the Chargeplace Scotland Network for charging which is still free where I live. I've saved £3,000 in petrol and the car has literally cost me nothing in Maintenance and little in Depreciation and you will be in a similar position. It also brings a smile to my face every time I drive it, just do it you won't regret it !

 

[MG535]

Problem with that as far as I can see is that I'm really keen on getting the AMD Ryzen processor with my Tesla, and that's not even guaranteed for my March delivery but I certainly wouldn't have it on an inventory model. And it doesn't look like you save much/any money from a new order anyway from what I can see.


Oh no! Yesterday was all uplifting "buy it! No point in being the richest man in the grave! Life is short!" posts, today I'm getting the "you're nuts, you can't afford that much" posts

How much do you think someone should have in investments before they should consider a £50k car? If it helps, I'm not relying on my investments for retirement. I'm paying into a defined benefit pension that is on track to be worth over £50k per year adjusted for inflation when I retire. Or more if I get promoted between now and then (I have 30 more years of work until my retirement age). Then I'd have the state pension as well I guess.

The investing is so that I have the option to retire a little earlier if I want to, or if something unexpected happens like I decide I do want to start a family after all, so need a bigger place to live. I don't think it's super likely (I'm just not someone who ever wanted kids), but I guess you can never rule out these things happening entirely! If I own the Tesla for 5 years, and continue investing at the same rate with average market growth my investments would be worth somewhere between £110k-£120k when it is time to trade the Tesla in.

But obviously I'm also anxious that buying the Tesla doesn't seem financially responsible, hence starting the thread, so I do worry you may be right!


Yeah, well I'm not really interested in moving up to a more expensive house. As a single person, 2 bedrooms is plenty for me. I guess I'm just conscious that most people who park Teslas outside their house probably have far bigger houses because they have more money! Also conscious that some of my friends who earn similarly to me have far bigger houses and only buy cheap cars, but again, they have kids.

I don't think I'd move up the property ladder just for the purposes of gaining equity through house price increases. I'd rather stay where I am and put the money into investments and gain equity through stock market growth instead.

Okay so you are much more secure and financially this is less risky than what I had inferred from the first post.

As long as your joy of ownership exceeds the angst of fancy-car-in-a-not-so-fancy-neighborhood then go for it.

 

[AutomaticMan]

Okay so you are much more secure and financially this is less risky than what I had inferred from the first post.

As long as your joy of ownership exceeds the angst of fancy-car-in-a-not-so-fancy-neighborhood then go for it.

Thanks! I didn't spot at first that you're from the US, and having lived out in the US previously I know some of these things are a little different out there anyway. Defined benefit pensions are getting rarer here too now and a lot of people self-invest their pension portfolios here these days, but I think the latter is the way it usually is in the US, so when people retire there they need plenty of investments I believe. If I were relying on my investments for retirement you're darned right I wouldn't be buying any Teslas!! I also know that UK salaries sound low to Americans because average salaries are higher there. I don't think it fully makes up the difference, but there are a few things like free healthcare in the UK that make the cost of living lower in some ways and make up some of the difference.

I also probably slightly gave the wrong impression on my neighbourhood I'd say it's a middle-income area. Lots of young professionals with kids, rather than richer people further along the career ladder. Somewhere you'd see decent 3-5 year old cars parked in people's driveways rather than brand new Teslas though. I feel like I may have given the incorrect impression that I live in the slums... haha

I am still going to get a security camera covering the Tesla though! It'll be by far the most valuable thing I've ever owned and you can't be too careful.

 

[Alan J]

Thanks! I didn't spot at first that you're from the US, and having lived out in the US previously I know some of these things are a little different out there anyway. Defined benefit pensions are getting rarer here too now and a lot of people self-invest their pension portfolios here these days, but I think the latter is the way it usually is in the US, so when people retire there they need plenty of investments I believe. If I were relying on my investments for retirement you're darned right I wouldn't be buying any Teslas!! I also know that UK salaries sound low to Americans because average salaries are higher there. I don't think it fully makes up the difference, but there are a few things like free healthcare in the UK that make the cost of living lower in some ways and make up some of the difference.

I also probably slightly gave the wrong impression on my neighbourhood I'd say it's a middle-income area. Lots of young professionals with kids, rather than richer people further along the career ladder. Somewhere you'd see decent 3-5 year old cars parked in people's driveways rather than brand new Teslas though. I feel like I may have given the incorrect impression that I live in the slums... haha

I am still going to get a security camera covering the Tesla though! It'll be by far the most valuable thing I've ever owned and you can't be too careful.

I've got Amazon Blink Video Cameras covering my Driveway and they are excellent, recommended.

 

[SpacedX]

Just wondering how many of you out there are buying Teslas on normal incomes and do you feel guilty about it? I keep going back and forth between excitement at getting a Model 3 LR, and guilt/worry about it being a stupid financial decision.

My personal situation is that I'm a higher rate taxpayer, but only just. I am in my late-30s, have no kids (nor want any), am dating but not cohabiting. I don't have any debt except my mortgage, which is about 75% LTV on a 2-bed property in a reasonably priced area (so, not London!). I currently have a VW ID.3 that I just sold for £33k, and a motorbike that is worth between £15-18k that I'm intending to sell this summer as I've fallen out of love with motorcycling a bit. The money I'm getting for the car and bike will essentially pay for the Tesla, and my excuse for getting the Tesla is that it will combine the 'fun vehicle' factor of my motorbike with the day-to-day practical car factor of my ID.3 into one vehicle. I have about £50k in investments in an ISA, £5k emergency cash fund, and I'm saving/investing about 20% of my salary each month. I also pay into my workplace pension.

So part of me thinks, I can afford this. It will make me happy, life is short, why shouldn't I buy it?

But another part of me feels sick at the idea of blowing £50k on a car. I drive around my neighbourhood, which isn't an affluent area, and see very few new cars, let alone new cars as expensive as a Tesla and think, am I mad? I could take the £50k, add it to the £50k I have in investments, and pay off my mortgage in a few years probably. I have to admit, I couldn't sleep last night with all the worry going around my head that I'm being far too extravagant for my means in getting this car. Was wondering how everyone else justifies it? Or maybe you're all like "meh, I earn £200k per year working in the City... £50k is nothing to me", or "it's a company car, I'd never get it as a private buyer"...?

I also know that an obvious partial solution is to get the RWD version instead of the LR. But I'll still feel guilty about buying a £43k car too... Also, the performance of the dual motor forms part of my justification for buying the car (the motorcycle replacement bit), and I'm a real audio snob and missing out on the premium audio system would be something I'd regret every single day.

No gas (I use solar) and no upkeep
both will effect the actual "cost" of the car

 

[PITA]

I feel like I may have given the incorrect impression that I live in the slums... haha

I am still going to get a security camera covering the Tesla though! It'll be by far the most valuable thing I've ever owned and you can't be too careful.

I live in the Slums ... according to my 'rich' friends. Still have 3 x Tesla Model 3 and a new Porsche within 50 yards of my front door though

All my neighbours are friendly and nice, so that's what matters. No psycho's.

Camera's on driveway are useless for deterring thefts. The notifications will be turned off within weeks. The Police are not interested, and neither are the thieving scumbags. They'll be probably video'ing themselves anyway, live streaming to their mates and Police Facebook page.

I have 13 cameras around my place, and they're great for watching foxes, birds, cats, badgers, delivery couriers, postmen, workmen & extreme weather events.

Stopping thefts... not so much.

GDPR laws mean every camera is carefully positioned not to overlook my neighbours... which surprises them when I tell them I can't help when something happens in their world.

I've installed retracting ram bollards on my driveway... won't stop them nicking wheels or breaking in... but it gives the cars a fighting chance of still being there in the morning.

Still like my cameras though, skim through them at bedtime.

 

[AutomaticMan]

I live in the Slums ... according to my 'rich' friends. Still have 3 x Tesla Model 3 and a new Porsche within 50 yards of my front door though

All my neighbours are friendly and nice, so that's what matters. No psycho's.

Camera's on driveway are useless for deterring thefts. The notifications will be turned off within weeks. The Police are not interested, and neither are the thieving scumbags. They'll be probably video'ing themselves anyway, live streaming to their mates and Police Facebook page.

I have 13 cameras around my place, and they're great for watching foxes, birds, cats, badgers, delivery couriers, postmen, workmen & extreme weather events.

Stopping thefts... not so much.

GDPR laws mean every camera is carefully positioned not to overlook my neighbours... which surprises them when I tell them I can't help when something happens in their world.

I've installed retracting ram bollards on my driveway... won't stop them nicking wheels or breaking in... but it gives the cars a fighting chance of still being there in the morning.

Still like my cameras though, skim through them at bedtime.

Yeah, my neighbours are nice too. Though one of them is VW Golf obsessed and has never forgiven me for selling my old e-Golf, so who knows what he'll make of the Tesla!

Haha... yeah, I hear you on the kind of scrotes who key cars being perfectly happy to be caught on camera so they have some footage to post to their TikTok and laugh about with their mates. Can't hurt to have a camera though. The one I have my eye on has a floodlight in it as well, so the bright light will draw their attention to it, and once they look at it they'll see it has a very obvious camera lens. So I'm hoping it will at least deter any of the camera shy ones.

I'm into Apple HomeKit stuff, so that's the route I'll be going for it. I already have a HomeKit doorbell camera (doesn't really cover where the car is parked though sadly), and agree with your assessment that it is mainly good at spotting animals! When I got my first "an animal has been spotted!" notification and opened the recording excitedly, only to see my neighbour's cat walk nonchalantly into shot, look around a bit, then wander off again I realised that feature is probably more useful in countries where they have man-eating bears and things like that