Tesla Buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, Will Accept as Payment

[BigNick]

Sorry pal, the house doesn't lose, and the house has taken long positions in BTC.

It's understandable that you're angry you're missing out on this, but your lack of buy in certainly isn't going to effect the price of BTC. It will end 2021 anywhere from 80k-100k.

There are plenty of more important things to be "angry" about these days but it's not worth the stress. One man's urine does not redirect a hurricane.
Bitcoin isn't one of these things, and who said I missed out? Putting 5 to 10% into a risky investment is one thing if you're diversified, but banking the whole wad on the "next big thing" like Gamestop or whatever, well that's not a good idea. Isn't the whole Gamestop deal about trying to make the house lose?

 

[Cleo-n-Company]

There are plenty of more important things to be "angry" about these days but it's not worth the stress. One man's urine does not redirect a hurricane.
Bitcoin isn't one of these things, and who said I missed out? Putting 5 to 10% into a risky investment is one thing if you're diversified, but banking the whole wad on the "next big thing" like Gamestop or whatever, well that's not a good idea. Isn't the whole Gamestop deal about trying to make the house lose?

Indeed. I have a family member who's been buying and selling BTC for a few years now.

When it's up he makes sure we all note his genius. When it's down the guy won't even answer a text.

Gamestop had about 3 days of geniuses - and now has a plateful of idiots.

To everything... turn... turn... turn...

 

[AdamMacDon]

View attachment 635284 View attachment 635285

First picture is the amount of dollars over time. The second picture is the amount of bitcoins over time.

Bingo! The scariest part is the first chart could just be warming up for all we know. The gold standard has been dead for decades and there is no limit to how many greenbacks the Fed could decide to print. When people tell me how "risky" my BTC holdings are, I just chuckle. I'm sure Germans after WW1 thought the Mark was a solid asset too.

 

[Just a Reader]

Wasn't Tesla supposed to be about "saving the planet"? "Mining" Bitcoin creates about the same amount of CO2 pollution as countries like Norway and Switzerland. Bitcoin mining often happens in countries with low energy costs and electricity being produced by burning fossil fuels. So much for principles.

 

[CertLive]

I am in conflict with this also. I am an investor and one of the first things I thought of is how bitcoin wipes out all the current and possibly future CO2 savings of the Tesla fleet. Sure a company has got to make profit but the footprint of the power usage of Argentina and growing.... yes this has me in total conflict unless all the energy was solar and wind. But that is many years away in even developed nations. I hope someone can work this out better because it does not seem to match well with anything good for the earth currently.

 

[AdamMacDon]

Wasn't Tesla supposed to be about "saving the planet"? "Mining" Bitcoin creates about the same amount of CO2 pollution as countries like Norway and Switzerland. Bitcoin mining often happens in countries with low energy costs and electricity being produced by burning fossil fuels. So much for principles.

So can you also tell us how much energy the conventional finance system consumes? I'm sure all the HFT machines and millions of bank locations run off of fairy dust. I'm also sure those banks and trade buildings were also built with carbon neutral methods. Honestly, this argument is very reminiscent of when people tried to claim EV's actually create more CO2 emissions than gas cars. Is BTC super efficient? No. But without comparing it to the total energy use of conventional finance, you have nothing useful, just hand wringing. Crypto technology will continue to improve in efficiency, just like conventional finance has.

Regardless, if more countries weren't foolishly abandoning nuclear or regulating the crap out of it so as to make it economically senseless, this wouldn't be a problem at all. Per TWH, nuclear is one of the safest options, with more deaths being caused by rooftop solar than fission power. But of course, lets blame BTC for this and not our politicians who make knee jerk emotional reactions after a mild incident occurs. Source: Mortality rate globally by energy source 2012 | Statista

One BTC transaction does not use that much energy. It certainly does not "wipe out the good" Tesla has done for reducing carbon emissions. A SpaceX rocket launch is far more harmful and I don't see people complaining about that (not that I condone complaints about that either).

 

[Cleo-n-Company]

Bottom line - Elon's BTC purchase is merely an attempt to provide a quick hit to his balance sheet.

He's not hitting profit targets by selling cars - the energy credit sales aren't filling enough of the void - so now he's turning to BTC.

He's just another gambler, playing with house money at the craps table.

With the wild gyrations in BTC - his move is just as risky as buying Gamestop shares and putting them in the TSLA portfolio.

Face it - the guy is bored with building cars. He should just sell the company and/or license the technology and move on in life.

 

[Alset Srotom]

Wasn't Tesla supposed to be about "saving the planet"? "Mining" Bitcoin creates about the same amount of CO2 pollution as countries like Norway and Switzerland. Bitcoin mining often happens in countries with low energy costs and electricity being produced by burning fossil fuels. So much for principles.

The coin is going to be mined whether Tesla purchases any or not.

Just FYI, Tesla purchased 1.5b at around $37,000, meaning that as of now that 1.5b is worth almost 1.9b. I'd say a 300m+ return will do a lot to help Tesla make the future sustainable.

 

[Cleo-n-Company]

The coin is going to be mined whether Tesla purchases any or not.

Just FYI, Tesla purchased 1.5b at around $37,000, meaning that as of now that 1.5b is worth almost 1.9b. I'd say a 300m+ return will do a lot to help Tesla make the future sustainable.

And what happens if BTC goes down and the initial purchase is then worth 1.1 instead of 1.9 ?

 

[Alset Srotom]

And what happens if BTC goes down and the initial purchase is then worth 1.1 instead of 1.9 ?

You're speaking in hypotheticals, Im speaking in reality...

 

[CertLive]

The coin is going to be mined whether Tesla purchases any or not.

Just FYI, Tesla purchased 1.5b at around $37,000, meaning that as of now that 1.5b is worth almost 1.9b. I'd say a 300m+ return will do a lot to help Tesla make the future sustainable.

Of course there is the knock on effect. So the question is how much CO2 does bitcoin produce and how long will it take to produce it green? I try to invest in companies that value this at the core as it is vital. 300million gained and a push to mine more and more as it becomes more valuable. It is something to consider as a company if you are promoting something that is for a long time going to counter the whole point of going electric. I suppose for this I could only suggest Tesla will produce more energy via greener means to offset these type of investments.

 

[Cleo-n-Company]

You're speaking in hypotheticals, Im speaking in reality...

Uh - it was reality too on that single blissful day a couple weeks ago when Gamestop hit $481. See you at the blackjack table it sounds like...

 

[Ostrichsak]

You're speaking in hypotheticals, Im speaking in reality...

Isn't one of the primary job duties of a CEO to project unforeseen hypotheticals and insulate their company against such impact? Now, if Tesla can afford to lose 1.9 billion US dollars in the blink of an eye and they have already thought through that then that's one thing. Intentionally turning a blind eye to hypotheticals that we've already seen come to fruition is probably one of the worst investment strategies I've ever heard and will surely leave the person/company deploying them broke in short order.

Be clear that I'm not stating whether I agree with the move or not overall with this statement. I'm merely pointing out that to make such large financial risks without any consideration towards the hypothetical of the investment declining in value would be facetious to put it lightly.

 

[AdamMacDon]

Isn't one of the primary job duties of a CEO to project unforeseen hypotheticals and insulate their company against such impact? Now, if Tesla can afford to lose 1.9 billion US dollars in the blink of an eye and they have already thought through that then that's one thing. Intentionally turning a blind eye to hypotheticals that we've already seen come to fruition is probably one of the worst investment strategies I've ever heard and will surely leave the person/company deploying them broke in short order.

Be clear that I'm not stating whether I agree with the move or not overall with this statement. I'm merely pointing out that to make such large financial risks without any consideration towards the hypothetical of the investment declining in value would be facetious to put it lightly.

Hypothetically the USD could collapse to zero too. And before you go saying it's less likely, please research hyperinflation throughout history. BTC trends up in value over time and the USD only trends down (thanks to inflation). This is a fact based on past evidence. Unless someone here can predict the future, I'd prefer we just look at the value of a USD over the past 10 years and the value of a BTC over the past ten years. Stacked up that way, I'm sorry, the hypotheticals just seem based on ignorance, not real data. Fiat currencies have actually experienced real hyperinflation, that is just reality. You don't have to like that (I don't), but it's true. BTC has not and almost certainly will not experience the same thing due to the measures Satoshi developed to avoid hyperinflation.

One could easily argue leaving your money in cash during the largest money printing session in the history of the USD is turning a blind eye. Forget what ifs, lets talk about real numbers. Check out the charts Matias posted on page 1 and come back to discuss this. The biggest problem I see is the anti-BTC crowd are arguing with emotions, ignorance, and wild hypothetical situations backed by no historical data. There is an odd lack of actual data or facts to back up a claim that BTC could go to zero. It has had spikes and drops, but it has NEVER gone to zero, even for a second, unlike several fiat currencies in history. All I have seen for are hilariously inaccurate comparisons to gambling and the GME short squeeze.

TL;DR: There is a massive difference between avoiding a likely risk, and fearing something because you are ignorant about how it works. I would posit most of this thread is the latter. For the laughs: Bitcoin Obituaries - Bitcoin Declared Dead 350+ Times (2021 Updated)

 

[DaveG_NJ]

Wasn't Tesla supposed to be about "saving the planet"?

God, I hope not, otherwise you've put the planet's survival in the hands of a man obsessed with fart noises. It's OK, the earth will survive our species by a few billion years. Final Score: Earth 1, Humans 0.

 

[MXLRplus]

The real irony of Tesla getting into bitcoin is that mining draws massive amounts of electricity and turns it into heat.
Granted most of it is in China, but it's still about the least green industry in existence. Even a coal mine in greener than bitcoin.

The power is sitting just north of 1% of the global grid and rising steadily, negating much of our power conservation efforts.

 

[CertLive]

The real irony of Tesla getting into bitcoin is that mining draws massive amounts of electricity and turns it into heat.
Granted most of it is in China, but it's still about the least green industry in existence. Even a coal mine in greener than bitcoin.

The power is sitting just north of 1% of the global grid and rising steadily, negating much of our power conservation efforts.

That is exactly why I can't understand an investment of this type from Tesla if it cares about the planets current situation.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Hypothetically the USD could collapse to zero too. And before you go saying it's less likely, please research hyperinflation throughout history. BTC trends up in value over time and the USD only trends down (thanks to inflation). This is a fact based on past evidence. Unless someone here can predict the future, I'd prefer we just look at the value of a USD over the past 10 years and the value of a BTC over the past ten years. Stacked up that way, I'm sorry, the hypotheticals just seem based on ignorance, not real data. Fiat currencies have actually experienced real hyperinflation, that is just reality. You don't have to like that (I don't), but it's true. BTC has not and almost certainly will not experience the same thing due to the measures Satoshi developed to avoid hyperinflation.

One could easily argue leaving your money in cash during the largest money printing session in the history of the USD is turning a blind eye. Forget what ifs, lets talk about real numbers. Check out the charts Matias posted on page 1 and come back to discuss this. The biggest problem I see is the anti-BTC crowd are arguing with emotions, ignorance, and wild hypothetical situations backed by no historical data. There is an odd lack of actual data or facts to back up a claim that BTC could go to zero. It has had spikes and drops, but it has NEVER gone to zero, even for a second, unlike several fiat currencies in history. All I have seen for are hilariously inaccurate comparisons to gambling and the GME short squeeze.

TL;DR: There is a massive difference between avoiding a likely risk, and fearing something because you are ignorant about how it works. I would posit most of this thread is the latter. For the laughs: Bitcoin Obituaries - Bitcoin Declared Dead 350+ Times (2021 Updated)

I'm not really sure why you quoted me and directed this at me when 1) I never said the USD couldn't tank in value and 2) I'm not anti-BTC. That's quite the strawman you've erected though.

 

[Cleo-n-Company]

God, I hope not, otherwise you've put the planet's survival in the hands of a man obsessed with fart noises. It's OK, the earth will survive our species by a few billion years. Final Score: Earth 1, Humans 0.

Discussions like this make my head hurt.

Sound like it's time to lie down on the couch and roll through Breaking Bad yet again.

 

[Cleo-n-Company]

Hypothetically the USD could collapse to zero too. And before you go saying it's less likely, please research hyperinflation throughout history. BTC trends up in value over time and the USD only trends down (thanks to inflation). This is a fact based on past evidence. Unless someone here can predict the future, I'd prefer we just look at the value of a USD over the past 10 years and the value of a BTC over the past ten years. Stacked up that way, I'm sorry, the hypotheticals just seem based on ignorance, not real data. Fiat currencies have actually experienced real hyperinflation, that is just reality. You don't have to like that (I don't), but it's true. BTC has not and almost certainly will not experience the same thing due to the measures Satoshi developed to avoid hyperinflation.

One could easily argue leaving your money in cash during the largest money printing session in the history of the USD is turning a blind eye. Forget what ifs, lets talk about real numbers. Check out the charts Matias posted on page 1 and come back to discuss this. The biggest problem I see is the anti-BTC crowd are arguing with emotions, ignorance, and wild hypothetical situations backed by no historical data. There is an odd lack of actual data or facts to back up a claim that BTC could go to zero. It has had spikes and drops, but it has NEVER gone to zero, even for a second, unlike several fiat currencies in history. All I have seen for are hilariously inaccurate comparisons to gambling and the GME short squeeze.

TL;DR: There is a massive difference between avoiding a likely risk, and fearing something because you are ignorant about how it works. I would posit most of this thread is the latter. For the laughs: Bitcoin Obituaries - Bitcoin Declared Dead 350+ Times (2021 Updated)

The essence of the conversation is whether buying 1.5 billion of BTC is the best use of Tesla's money.

When you've pissed off the Chinese and they want to recall your Model 3's...

When you've pissed off tens-of-thousands of your loyal early adopters with the Model S screen fiasco... (including me)

When you admitted in an interview a week ago that you (as in Elon Musk) would never buy one of your cars fresh off a newly tooled assembly line...

I am thinking there are better places to invest that cash. Like... into your company.