Tesla EV Tax Credits coming back?

[bro1999]

What’s wrong with targeting subsidy toward people who actually need it?

Upper middle and above (Present Company included) DO NOT need an incentive to purchase an EV and to do so is just high end welfare.

Limit the eligibility then via income caps. If someone that's technically "low income" in the eyes of the gov't saves up enough money to buy a $45k Model 3, they shouldn't qualify for it because the car they saved for is $5k too expensive?

 

[SageBrush]

Combine both and incentivize further EV proliferation where it will make the most impact.

CO2 does not stay in the 'hood

Let's say it takes $7,500 to incentivize those people you want to exclude before they agree to buy an EV,
but it takes $20,000 to incentivize those people you deem worthy before they agree to buy an EV.

Which approach do you advocate ?

 

[ElectricIAC]

CO2 does not stay in the 'hood

Let's say it takes $7,500 to incentivize those people you want to exclude before they agree to buy an EV,
but it takes $20,000 to incentivize those people you deem worthy before they agree to buy an EV.

Which approach do you advocate ?

If the rebate states xxxx, that doesn’t make it xxxxx all of a sudden just because certain zip codes are cashing in vs the usual suspects.

 

[SageBrush]

Not the ones I deal with, including myself.

That includes me also.

I waited the better part of 5 years to buy a Tesla that was in my 'affordable' price range -- about $42k after tax credits. I have considerably more disposable income than a generic '$150k HHI' implies. And I will be swapping to a different Tesla in the next few months by selling our Model 3 and buying a Model Y. That will be an additional EV on the roads because the cost to do so was reasonable.

 

[SageBrush]

If the rebate states xxxx, that doesn’t make it xxxxx all of a sudden just because certain zip codes are cashing in vs the usual suspects.

Understand that it takes different amounts of subsidy to get people to choose the alternative. If I am used to paying $35k for a new car but can get a $45k EV along with a $7.5k tax credit, I'm game.

If I spend $15k - 20k on used ICE cars but am offered a $42k EV along with a $7.5k tax credit, I continue to buy the $20k used ICE

 

[Ihvetriedthem]

why put it on hold if the delivery is in May 2022?

Sorry I meant December. I guess I wish it was May. I cannot stand the cold.

 

[Need]

The 150K+ HHI segment I know and deal with on a daily basis is going to buy the car they want, when they want it regardless of any carrot you put in front of them.

150K isn't going very far here in SoCal. Pretty sure all my coworkers made over that and 5 of us bought Tesla back in 2018. None of us would have bought an EV or Tesla without the $10K incentive ($2.5 CA and 7.5 Fed). We could be a special case as we are software engineers. If someone bought a box of donut (carrots) to the office, every last one will be eaten even the bacon one that no one likes. We like deals and free stuff.

 

[thecavalry]

Limit the eligibility then via income caps. If someone that's technically "low income" in the eyes of the gov't saves up enough money to buy a $45k Model 3, they shouldn't qualify for it because the car they saved for is $5k too expensive?

This is backwards.

The tax credits are intended to incentivize manufacturers to make and market EV’s by offsetting higher production costs compared to ICE vehicles. They are to be given at all budgets and makes because the goal is to get more EV’s on the road, period. Not to get more poor people in to EV’s — to get more EV’s on the road, period.

You accomplish this by incentivizing every budget, because the goal is total cars on the road, not just budget cars on the road.

 

[SageBrush]

The tax credits are intended to incentivize manufacturers to make and market EV’s by offsetting higher production costs compared to ICE vehicles.

A little curious history: the original $7.5k EV tax credit, as signed into law while li'l bush was in office, was justified by the CBO by the national cost related to ICE oil consumption. I presume (but do not know for sure) that the money calc reflected the cost of oil imports.

If the social cost of carbon, the social cost of pollution and the cost of militarizing oil production and transport is included, $7.5k subsidy to replace an ICE is the bargain of the century.

 

[Corndart]

This is backwards.

The tax credits are intended to incentivize manufacturers to make and market EV’s by offsetting higher production costs compared to ICE vehicles. They are to be given at all budgets and makes because the goal is to get more EV’s on the road, period. Not to get more poor people in to EV’s — to get more EV’s on the road, period.

You accomplish this by incentivizing every budget, because the goal is total cars on the road, not just budget cars on the road.

I think that's where we have some sharp philosophical divides.

My perspective is that as long as manufacturers, via us purchasing, benefit from EV incentives for more expensive tier car purchases, where they have higher margins, they will not offer lower priced models at scale that target replacing the $20-35k buyer segment. The other benefit there is that it gets broader participation across more income strata.

The Tesla M2 should target that demographic, the Y and 3 have pushed into and beyond the upper affordability boundary for a large segment of Americans.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Understand that it takes different amounts of subsidy to get people to choose the alternative. If I am used to paying $35k for a new car but can get a $45k EV along with a $7.5k tax credit, I'm game.

If I spend $15k - 20k on used ICE cars but am offered a $42k EV along with a $7.5k tax credit, I continue to buy the $20k used ICE

Well, maybe Tesla shouldn’t partner up with a predatory bank with onerous terms on leases.

 

[patmurphey]

So you would then agree that tying the rebate toward trading in a clunker or ICE vehicle should be a pre-requisite if the goal is actually cleaner air.

No, and since you raise it "clunkers" are another unnecessary impediment to free use of credits to buy EVs.

 

[ElectricIAC]

No, and since you raise it "clunkers" are another unnecessary impediment to free use of credits to buy EVs.

I see how it is.

Wouldn’t want those dirty, unwashed poors driving around in “status symbol” fancy pants EV’s now would we?

 

[jawnly211]

saw 5 unread pages of convo thinking there was actual news

utterly disappointed

 

[Corndart]

saw 5 unread pages of convo thinking there was actual news

utterly disappointed

Absent any real news, conjecture and shitposting has filled the vacuum.

 

[patmurphey]

I posted this in another thread, but it is relevant to this thread, too:

Actually, Elon Musk will personally pay for the entire program all by himself with his taxes on exercising stock options earned as employee compensation. If you do the numbers on ordinary income tax for all of those shares based on projected value, the tax could be as high as 200 billion or maybe more. The current round of options should yield 12 to 15 billion in revenue (the reason he is selling stock now to raise the cash).

 

[DaveORD]

For those who are delaying their delivery to take advantage of some future tax credits...

Tesla (TSLA) sends ultimatum to buyers who keep delaying deliveries

Tesla has started to send an ultimatum to buyers who keep delaying their deliveries as part of a new policy...

electrek.co

 

[Sexy_owner]

For those who are delaying their delivery to take advantage of some future tax credits...

Tesla (TSLA) sends ultimatum to buyers who keep delaying deliveries

Tesla has started to send an ultimatum to buyers who keep delaying their deliveries as part of a new policy...

electrek.co

This is informative that “Tesla’s order agreement stipulates that the buyer needs to take delivery within 30 days of it being available.” I guess that means 30 days after Vin number assignment. I think I am in a good position

 

[SageBrush]

This is informative that “Tesla’s order agreement stipulates that the buyer needs to take delivery within 30 days of it being available.”

What is "it" ?

The VIN ?
A car that has been manufactured ?

My account says

Estimated Delivery: March 07 - April 04​

Delivery timing will update based on configuration availability. We will reach out to schedule your delivery when your VIN is assigned.

So I take it that Tesla is trying to push customers to set a specific date for delivery once a VIN has been assigned, which probably is connected to a firm (in the eyes of Tesla) manufacturing date. Tesla does not reassign VINs arbitrarily (although I think it has been known to happen or rare occasions) so this amounts to Tesla saying "we do not want your car sitting on our lot for longer than a month." If Tesla says that delivery can be done on <this_date>, then the customer has until <this_date + 30> to collect the car.

Frankly, if the delivery date comes down to a few days then the customer can just pay the total owed and let the car sit at the delivery center.

 

[orion2001]

For those who are delaying their delivery to take advantage of some future tax credits...

Tesla (TSLA) sends ultimatum to buyers who keep delaying deliveries

Tesla has started to send an ultimatum to buyers who keep delaying their deliveries as part of a new policy...

electrek.co

Someone else on Reddit said they got that email and talked to an SA and was still able to ensure a post Jan delivery. That email isn't necessarily to catch out people actually looking to buy a car within a couple of months. I think they are just trying to clear out a backlog of orders where many are probably not going to be acted upon and they don't want to be on the hook for all of those with prices going up.

For now, things are looking good for my April order with an EDD of Feb - Mar. Hopefully there is some movement in the Senate on this one way or the other within a few weeks.