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Tesla is not publishing service bulletins, keeping them "secret" (per NHSTA complaint

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#41
liuping said:
It's possible they are afraid of do it yourselfers getting seriously injured from a high voltage accident. That would certainly not make for good PR.

They should at least released a subset of the service manuals that cover things people can do without risk of electrocution.
Click to expand...

But wouldn't that already apply to people in MA who are able to get this information?

Unless of course they are not concerned with risk of electrocution for MA residents :tongue:

I am sure the car has many levels of safety built in so that there are basic procedures to follow while doing maintenance especially given the fact that already a bunch of people have completely dismantled these cars and even battery packs. If they make this information in available, why not the rest of the US as well? Would be great to see the advent of Indy Tesla shops, especially for regular maintenance...
 
#43
liuping said:
It's possible they are afraid of do it yourselfers getting seriously injured from a high voltage accident. That would certainly not make for good PR.
Click to expand...

While that plays a part, I'd suggest the main reason is cost and security. Right now the online service information is only available internally. Obviously, you couldn't open up that to outsiders because it would be just too easy for a professional to get in and perhaps jump from there to the billing system. The alternative is to have a read-only copy on some DMZ server with billed access. I don't doubt they will do that someday, but even a read-only copy (or subset) needs equipment, people, and commitment. They are spread pretty thin right now with all the things currently being done.

Of course, I'd really like to have access just to increase my understanding.
 
#44
liuping said:
It's possible they are afraid of do it yourselfers getting seriously injured from a high voltage accident. That would certainly not make for good PR.

They should at least released a subset of the service manuals that cover things people can do without risk of electrocution.
Click to expand...

I don't really know why Tesla is hesitant, but I don't think risk of injury is the reason. There is risk of injury when servicing an ICE vehicle as well. Today we have hybrid vehicles that contain high voltage batteries, and I assume those service manuals are available. We have BMW i3 and i8. Is BMW withholding service manuals out of the same fear? I would tend to doubt it. What about Nissan, are they withholding service manuals for the Leaf, or Ford for the Focus EV, or Chevrolet for the Volt?
 
#45
Q1: To protect IP?
A1: Well, what about that "open patents" thing so that EVs take hold?

Q2: To protect service center profits?
A2: Elon has publicly directed service centers to not be profit centers.

Q3: To protect customers from maintaining their own vehicles?
A3: I thought the idea was that EVs are easy to maintain and the technology is just as safe as ICEs (if not safer)?

Q4: Resources?
A4: Probably that.
 
#49
I'm with Amped, its gotta be that they are worried about people screwing up their cars and either hurting themselves or breaking the cars and blaming Tesla. Cost (at least as to the maintenance of the manuals) can't be the reason because they already make it available to MA residents.

I think they also really want the cars to be under their control. They want to know whats going on with them and whats being done to them. Part of it is altruistic that they want to make the cars the best they can. I bet at least part of it is to protect service center revenue too.

The sad thing is that supposedly the manuals are pretty worthless because they mostly reference Tesla only software that Tesla won't release. I don't understand how that isn't covered by the MA right to repair law.
 
#50
AWDtsla said:
Sounds like this guy has never driven a car with disc brakes before. Well his ideology is straight from the 1940's, so probably not.
Click to expand...

No, Tesla had an actual problem with the brakes. In my opinion a VERY SERIOUS issue, that should warrant a recall. I experienced non-functioning brakes twice - first time, almost rear ending a car. The second time I almost hit a woman walking with her baby - one of the scariest situations I've experienced while driving any car (and I was only driving 30mph!).


A bunch of others have experienced the same issue: When driving in wet and cold conditions, the brakes would sometimes not work at all. I would press the brake hard, and it would take SECONDS before it actually started to slow down noticibly. The second time this happened, I know for sure that I had used the brake pedal only a few minutes before.


I've driven other cars 10 winters before and never experienced anything nearly that bad.


Tesla took the issue fairly seriously when I called them. I had to wait a week for a service apointment, but they offered me a loaner if I didn't feel safe driving my car while waiting. They applied a fix (rotor shield), and I haven't experienced it since.


Tesla are very lucky that this issue didn't caused any accidents, and that none of us contacted media.
 
#51
jaguar36 said:
I'm with Amped, its gotta be that they are worried about people screwing up their cars and either hurting themselves or breaking the cars and blaming Tesla. Cost (at least as to the maintenance of the manuals) can't be the reason because they already make it available to MA residents.

I think they also really want the cars to be under their control. They want to know whats going on with them and whats being done to them. Part of it is altruistic that they want to make the cars the best they can. I bet at least part of it is to protect service center revenue too.

The sad thing is that supposedly the manuals are pretty worthless because they mostly reference Tesla only software that Tesla won't release. I don't understand how that isn't covered by the MA right to repair law.
Click to expand...

^ This. From what I've heard the MA "manuals" are of little use without the Tesla software...
 
#53
TaoJones said:
Hate to say it, but a fellow owner in a SoCal SvC was just quoted $1200+ to have his 3-week old car's windshield replaced. They were debating cause (defect versus impact) as they left the waiting area to discuss.

If I ever need a windshield, I'm going to get a quote from your SvC :). Sad to see the variance but it seems par for the course these days.
Click to expand...

I have a Classic -- it's possible the AutoPilot windshield costs more or has additional labor...
 
#54
tom66 said:
Yes, "keef" is a well known EV and green tech skeptic. He has been banned from a forum I personally moderate and the EEVBlog forum. You can just search his name and you'll find his postings on a lot of Tesla articles. My guess is the guy has some grievance with Tesla or energy saving technology. Whatever, if you don't respond to him he won't be a problem.
Click to expand...

Yep, I recognized the name immediately from eevblog. Apparently he is a special kind of crazy that also uses the same forum name wherever he goes. I guess that makes it easier to ban him. He sure gets around though. I've seen him banned from a couple other forums in the last year or two as well.
 
#55
AmpedRealtor said:
I don't really know why Tesla is hesitant, but I don't think risk of injury is the reason. There is risk of injury when servicing an ICE vehicle as well. Today we have hybrid vehicles that contain high voltage batteries, and I assume those service manuals are available. We have BMW i3 and i8. Is BMW withholding service manuals out of the same fear? I would tend to doubt it. What about Nissan, are they withholding service manuals for the Leaf, or Ford for the Focus EV, or Chevrolet for the Volt?
Click to expand...

I think Tesla does not want any bad publicity. The fires were very damaging PR wise - especially in the early years when things were very tight. They have learned that due to it being a hot new brand, anything potentially bad about Tesla gets picked up by the national media. They do not want some owner modifying their car (or buying a damaged salvage title car) and having a very public problem such as a fire on the road, that will get media coverage and make them try to explain how it was only on fire because it was modified, ect. I don't blame them, although I wish they would be a bit more open.
 
#56
jerry33 said:
There is nothing requiring them to publish them, but many car manufacturers do allow access to them (usually for a fee. $10 or $15 for 24 hours of access.). The service bulletins saved me a bunch of money on the two Prius because I could show them to the dealer and not get charged. (Typically, the Toyota dealers charge rather than look up to see that there was a service bulletin.)
Click to expand...
Yeah, I have no idea about mandates to publish TSBs, but one can find Nissan TSBs at Nissan Service Bulletins - Nissanhelp.com. I've downloaded a bunch from there. A free account lets you d/l 2 PDFs/day.

And, re: high voltage or whatever, Leaf TSBs, service campaigns and recalls are available at Nissan Leaf Service Bulletins - Nissanhelp.com and Nissan Leaf Service Recalls/Campaigns - Nissanhelp.com.
 
#57
AZbba said:
I think Tesla does not want any bad publicity. The fires were very damaging PR wise - especially in the early years when things were very tight. They have learned that due to it being a hot new brand, anything potentially bad about Tesla gets picked up by the national media. They do not want some owner modifying their car (or buying a damaged salvage title car) and having a very public problem such as a fire on the road, that will get media coverage and make them try to explain how it was only on fire because it was modified, ect. I don't blame them, although I wish they would be a bit more open.
Click to expand...

When has this ever happened with any other EV ever made for which service manuals are available?
 
#58
Somebody jumped the gun with the title of this thread. List of TSBs is available from the Consumer Reports (under Model S "Reliability" tab).

BTW, with the huge amount of inaccurate information about Model S reliability, I strongly recommend subscribing to Consumer Reports website access - it costs only $30 per year and provides a lot of information about MS reliability record and how it stacks against the peers.

- - - Updated - - -

Ironically, information on TSBs is also available from NHTSA, the very site that inexplicably led to creation of this thread to begin with. Here is the page for 2013 MS:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners...ia.make=TESLA&searchCriteria.prod_ids=1839811
 

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#59
vgrinshpun said:
Somebody jumped the gun with the title of this thread. List of TSBs is available from the Consumer Reports (under Model S "Reliability" tab).

BTW, with the huge amount of inaccurate information about Model S reliability, I strongly recommend subscribing to Consumer Reports website access - it costs only $30 per year and provides a lot of information about MS reliability record and how it stacks against the peers.

- - - Updated - - -

Ironically, information on TSBs is also available from NHTSA, the very site that inexplicably led to creation of this thread to begin with. Here is the page for 2013 MS:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners...ia.make=TESLA&searchCriteria.prod_ids=1839811
Click to expand...

No you're wrong and missing the point. There are many TSBs that are not disclosed and are not part of the CR and NHSTA lists.
 
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