Tesla Model 3 is crushing competition

[LCR1]

So it looks like Tesla has no competition.

Exactly. Which is why it's laughable when people keep talking about it dominating the market and crushing the competition, they aren't, because there's no real competition.

The Bolt or Leaf would be the biggest ones, but neither company needs to push these vehicles to make a profit. As the market adapts and opens up to more EVs the the manufacturers will chase the profits. Tesla is in the hole billions of dollars and has had what 2 maybe 3 profitable quarters in its history? Why would a manufacturer want to spend billions in R&D for a possible first mover advantage when they can let the market mature and have guaranteed profits without going in the hole for billions.

 

[mspohr]

Exactly. Which is why it's laughable when people keep talking about it dominating the market and crushing the competition, they aren't, because there's no real competition.

Why would a manufacturer want to spend billions in R&D for a possible first mover advantage when they can let the market mature and have guaranteed profits without going in the hole for billions.

Because they are 5 to 10 years behind. They might want to try to catch up sometime.
Tesla owns the market. Tesla is advancing fast. Tesla keeps making the investment to advance their lead.
Looks like game over.

 

[Swampgator]

Except none of those are competition for Tesla, neither of them are long range EVs, you have a hybrid and a luxury sedan. BMW and prius aren't compared to each other but somehow they are both compared to the model 3? Hey, the Ford F-series outsold Tesla in one month compared to the whole quarter for Tesla. Only in the Tesla cult is a Toyota commuter car and a Luxury sports sedan compared to Tesla. Find me anywhere else in the world 3 completely different vehicles are compared to each other and called competition...

The answer remains, if you want a long range EV Tesla is the big option. I didn't trade in a BMW 7 series for my Model S, but somehow because I bought a Model S my purchase is being used as "proof" that Tesla is crushing BMW 7 series sales

No one outside of Tesla takes these "comparisons" seriously, when we start comparing long range EVs to long range EVs then you have a comparison.

Tesla does not want to compete with other EVs. Model 3 competes with BMW 3 series. It was the development target Elon set out to beat.
Model S competes with BMW 5 and 7 series. Same targets when Model S was designed.
Model Y is intended to compete with BMW X3.

And sorry, but Tesla has so far crushed BMW in each of their attempts. Model Y will be no different.
Those who continue to try and compare Tesla to other EVs have not listened to Elons actual words as to who he targets as his main competition.
Now the Pruis is a little unique because of the demographic that buy Prius. Either greens, or people who value efficency above all else. That is why their sales have plummeted after introduction of Model 3. It wins on both counts against that vehicle, and is not painful to look at like the Prius.

 

[afadeev]

Really? So you think these international banks play by all of the rules? That's a good one.

You are right.
It's all a conspiracy, all the time.

Also, you don't seem to believe that well funded short sellers actively try and manipulate the stock price down?

Some do.
But they don't work for Wall Street majors.
And they don't write the reports, issue downgrades, or help the company raise investment funds.
You don't seam to be able to understand the difference, though.

Take a look at the famous Jim Cramer explaining how it's done

That dude is an entertainer "Spitzer is going to Albany", "come to my show I will tell you more <secrets>"
I hope you realize that.


a

 

[LCR1]

Because they are 5 to 10 years behind. They might want to try to catch up sometime.
Tesla owns the market. Tesla is advancing fast. Tesla keeps making the investment to advance their lead.
Looks like game over.

5-10 years behind what? Batteries are still expensive as crap and Tesla doesn't make batteries, Panisonic does, so you'd have to say LG or BMZ or Prime earth are 5-10 years behind, but they aren't because they produce successful batteries for EVs already.

The motors? they're typical 3 phase induction or PM type motors. All these companies have hybrids or electric cars already and understand how to build or source electric motors. So what are they 5-10 years behind on, software? GM has super cruise and hell, ford has lane keep assist and adaptive cruise control on it's F-450s towing 35,000 lbs. Yea, they're really behind on adaptive cruise control. So what is it Auto lane change? The FSD that Tesla doesn't even have? Where exactly are these companies 5-10 years behind? Not every consumer wants FSD nor cares about it. Every major vehicle manufacturer has the same basic functions of Teslas software and they are all investing in FSD technology, just because they don't shout it from the rooftops every conference call or press release doesn't mean it's not happening. How many people know that Ford already built and sold an electric pickup truck, 20 years ago? But people are still claiming Tesla will make the first electric pickup.

Car companies are right where they want to be, they've been using things like AP1 a decade before Tesla was ever started. There is nothing about Tesla that other manufacturers don't have in some capacity, if there was a profit to be made in the segment they'd be bringing it to market to make those profits. And Tesla is the perfect example that there is no profit in the EV market right now, if there was, they'd be making a profit.

 

[Joshan]

Just so much wrong with the last post its hard to know where to even start..... not worth the effort.

 

[LCR1]

Just so much wrong with the last post its hard to know where to even start..... not worth the effort.

If you say so, no one can seem to say where the industry is lagging behind Tesla, muchless 5-10 years. If a car company could profit from EVs then they'd make EVs. The Tesla cult seems to forget that not everyone cares about their car self driving, how many people on these forums talk about how much THEY love driving their cars. All of a sudden the world is giving that up? Again, laughable, so tell me where the world is so far behind tesla.

 

[StealthP3D]

However, small SUV's get 30mph on hwy nowadays.
My wife's X3 gets 31mpg on the freeway.

A gasoline X3 will not get 31 mph if you drive it between 70 and 75 mph.

For a 4167lbs vehicle that does 0-60 in 6.0 sec, it is not bad at all.

Is 0-60 MPH in 6 seconds considered fast? Maybe if it was still 1999.

 

[Leafdriver333]

A gasoline X3 will not get 31 mph if you drive it between 70 and 75 mph.



Is 0-60 MPH in 6 seconds considered fast? Maybe if it was still 1999.

cruising at freeway speed is where we get 31 mpg. We never drive below 65mph unless there is a traffic jam or a cop nearby.

6.0 sec for a SUV is very competent. Over 60% of vehicles on the road probably are slower than that.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I don't know about "shade" per se but it was something that missed the mark in that the magnitude of the drop in car/sedan sales overall is only about a 1/3 as big as the drop in both BMW & Prius sales.

BMW 3-Series in particular has been slumping for a while, maybe because of impending Model 3 or maybe not, but it has now fell off the cliff. Very hard to plausibly argue that the Model 3 isn't a big factor, if not the outright majority of cause, in that. Tesla marketing wise and design wise teed up the Model 3 straight at the 3-series, and in so many, many ways bests it.

BMW

Model		12/18	12/17	-12mo	2018	2017	-12mo
3 Series	3,184 	5,556 	-42.7% 	44,578 	59,449 	-25.0% 	
X3 		8,511 	4,283 	98.7% 	61,351 	40,691 	50.8%
BMW brand	34,357	34,253	0.3%	311,014	305,685	1.7%

There's a shift happening away from sedans and cars.
Not really to SUVs, but to CUVs.

 

[Lasairfion]

If you say so, no one can seem to say where the industry is lagging behind Tesla, muchless 5-10 years.

Tesla Model 3s are profitable:
https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose...munro-tesla-model-3-teardown-profit-tsla.html

How Tesla is ahead (well worth watching all the way through):

 

[Zero CO2]

There is nothing to figure out. That’s like the comment above that everyone wants SUV’s. Lots of different tastes. But one thing is clear: Tesla has caused a boom in all-electric vehicle development. New competitors are popping up every day.

and contrary to the FUD spread by the financial news outlets more BEV competitors is a good thing for Tesla

 

[aadams1278]

I’m no car company expert but it seems reasonably logical that Tesla could have known the Model Y would be more successful and wanted to make the Model 3 first to get most of the bugs worked out so when the Y starts being delivered it is more polished. Plus the Model 3 is a little cheaper.

 

[mspohr]

Felipe Munoz on Instagram: “Even if all body types are included, the #TeslaModel3 leads the premium D-Segment in Europe. The fully electric #Tesla outsold all of its…”

 

[LCR1]

Tesla Model 3s are profitable:
https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose...munro-tesla-model-3-teardown-profit-tsla.html

How Tesla is ahead (well worth watching all the way through):

Doesn't matter how profitable one item is if the company is billions in the red, perhaps they should stop selling everything but the 3 until they figure it out. Also your link says it has a 30% gross margin, what's the net margin/profit on the car?

 

[StealthP3D]

How many people know that Ford already built and sold an electric pickup truck, 20 years ago? But people are still claiming Tesla will make the first electric pickup.

Well, I guess that proves that Ford is "ahead" of Tesla when it comes to making electric trucks. But can it be called a "truck" if it only has a 700 lb. cargo capacity? Because I'm 6'-4" and 220 lbs. If I bring a 180 lb. helper, that leaves a cargo bed capacity of 300 lbs. I guess I could pick-up a cord of firewood as long as I was willing to make 13 trips. But it's loaded range was only 50 miles so the trip better be less than 2 miles each way. It was so popular, Ford averaged less than one/day over its 5 years of production. And then, two years later, they were sent to the crusher.

Yes, Ford is way ahead of Tesla. It could go 0-60 mph (unloaded) in 17.45 seconds. But that was only at 100% charge. If it was at 50% it took 19 seconds.

There is nothing about Tesla that other manufacturers don't have in some capacity

There is nothing about the American military that other countries don't have in some capacity.

 

[mswlogo]

Car sales are down. Everyone is buying SUVs. Should Tesla have gone with the Model Y first? I know I'd probably get a Y if it was offered now.

Did you look at the chart. Cars sales down is not hurting the Model 3.

 

[LCR1]

Well, I guess that proves that Ford is "ahead" of Tesla when it comes to making electric trucks. But can it be called a "truck" if it only has a 700 lb. cargo capacity? Because I'm 6'-4" and 220 lbs. If I bring a 180 lb. helper, that leaves a cargo bed capacity of 300 lbs. I guess I could pick-up a cord of firewood as long as I was willing to make 13 trips. But it's loaded range was only 50 miles so the trip better be less than 2 miles each way. It was so popular, Ford averaged less than one/day over its 5 years of production. And then, two years later, they were sent to the crusher.

Yes, Ford is way ahead of Tesla. It could go 0-60 mph (unloaded) in 17.45 seconds. But that was only at 100% charge. If it was at 50% it took 19 seconds.



There is nothing about the American military that other countries don't have in some capacity.

I didn't see Tesla make an EV anything 20 years ago. Hell Tesla's first car wasn't even their design, they used another companies shell. And that explains my point perfectly, there was no profit in it. They leased a few thousand and sold some. Technology then wasn't where it needed to be to make a viable EV or any kind, let alone a truck. If EV's were profitable then companies would sell them and as the costs come down more of them will. Why are they expected to compete with a company losing billions of dollars a year? When the market matures they'll certainly take all of the tech they have and are working on and will put it into an EV that makes them money.

 

[mspohr]

Doesn't matter how profitable one item is if the company is billions in the red, perhaps they should stop selling everything but the 3 until they figure it out. Also your link says it has a 30% gross margin, what's the net margin/profit on the car?

I can't believe that you are so stupid to not understand that Tesla is investing in new factories and models and FSD, etc. and that is why it is "losing money". It makes a good margin on all of the cars it sells. Tesla could stop investing in new factories, models, etc. and be instantly very profitable but at the cost of long term competitive advantage.

 

[LCR1]

Did you look at the chart. Cars sales down is not hurting the Model 3.

Tesla also pre-sold the car for over two years before ever making one. I don't see any of those other cars on the list still filling backorders. What were there, 400K reservations over those two years? how many model 3s has Tesla sold?