Tesla Model 3 Navigation

[Maranaz]

Just completed a trip in my 3 week old model 3 with latest software/hardware including FSD,
on a crowded M25. I was disappointed to note the car did not pick up any of the variable speed limits on the overhead gantries. So much for latest navigation software. My old Model S with AP1 had no problem with these signs or 50 mph restrictions.

 

[zayn]

which model 3 do you have ?

Just completed a trip in my 3 week old model 3 with latest software/hardware including FSD,
on a crowded M25. I was disappointed to note the car did not pick up any of the variable speed limits on the overhead gantries. So much for latest navigation software. My old Model S with AP1 had no problem with these signs or 50 mph restrictions.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I was disappointed to note the car did not pick up any of the variable speed limits on the overhead gantries

AP2 has never had that ability (so far ...)

 

[Rooster6655]

Just completed a trip in my 3 week old model 3 with latest software/hardware including FSD,
on a crowded M25. I was disappointed to note the car did not pick up any of the variable speed limits on the overhead gantries. So much for latest navigation software. My old Model S with AP1 had no problem with these signs or 50 mph restrictions.

Elon says FSD will be feature complete by the end of the year so this may be included!

 

[MrBadger]

Lets hope so. I'm eagerly waiting to see what he announced in August when I still have option to cancel FSD.

 

[Calisaar]

Elon says FSD will be feature complete by the end of the year so this may be included!

There's a big difference between 'feature complete' and 'deployed' in the software world. In many development methodologies 'feature complete' means it's ready for internal system test.

Although I would think speed-sign recognition was one of the easier things they could roll out early. My Nissan can do it and it's been on the road since 2015.

 

[Rooster6655]

There's a big difference between 'feature complete' and 'deployed' in the software world. In many development methodologies 'feature complete' means it's ready for internal system test.

Although I would think speed-sign recognition was one of the easier things they could roll out early. My Nissan can do it and it's been on the road since 2015.

Yes not all features will be deployed at all, no way!

 

[ewoodrick]

The current software does not recognize signs, it only reads the map database.

 

[Maranaz]

which model 3 do you have ?

I have a blue standard plus model.
Further to my earlier post. I also had an alarming experience using the latest Navigate on Autopilot software on the M25. On autopilot I decided to activate lane change by indicating right, with no car behind in the right hand lane. The car started to do the manoevre of changing to the right hand lane when for no apparent reason when half way between lanes it swerved violently to the left back to the original lane.
This latest autopilot software is many many year away from FSD.

 

[Peteski]

I have a blue standard plus model.
Further to my earlier post. I also had an alarming experience using the latest Navigate on Autopilot software on the M25. On autopilot I decided to activate lane change by indicating right, with no car behind in the right hand lane. The car started to do the manoevre of changing to the right hand lane when for no apparent reason when half way between lanes it swerved violently to the left back to the original lane.
This latest autopilot software is many many year away from FSD.

This is why I keep advising people not to bother spending £5-6k on FSD. It's nowhere near the promise!
Did you also notice that your car doesn't even start to slow down until well past a lower speed limit sign. So if you are driving in a 60 limit and then approach a 30, it will steam into the 30 zone at 60 and then start to slow down about 50m or more past the sign. It's even worse if the speed limit sign has moved since it was last updated on the map. As you have already discovered, there is no real time speed sign recognition in AP2/3.

 

[Artiste]

Wow, I can't believe something as utterly basic as this isn't included on the M3. My A6 has done this for years. If I'm using dynamic cruise control on a motorway and enter roadworks it will read the 50mph sign, slow me down automatically, and speed up automatically when I exit. Same for variable speed limits on "smart" motorways. This gives me confidence that I will never be zapped by a sneaky speed camera. That's some omission for a company that is supposed to be at the cutting edge!

 

[Peteski]

Wow, I can't believe something as utterly basic as this isn't included on the M3. My A6 has done this for years. If I'm using dynamic cruise control on a motorway and enter roadworks it will read the 50mph sign, slow me down automatically, and speed up automatically when I exit. Same for variable speed limits on "smart" motorways. This gives me confidence that I will never be zapped by a sneaky speed camera. That's some omission for a company that is supposed to be at the cutting edge!

Better start believing it! It's not all bad though. AP auto steering is class leading and way better than anything else I've experienced and has got a lot better over the last year too. Lane positioning is now near perfect even with very poor lane markings. TACC is generally very smooth in traffic too, although prone to the dreaded phantom braking!

 

[Artiste]

Better start believing it! It's not all bad though. AP auto steering is class leading and way better than anything else I've experienced and has got a lot better over the last year too. Lane positioning is now near perfect even with very poor lane markings. TACC is generally very smooth in traffic too, although prone to the dreaded phantom braking!

Well that's good to know, and hopefully more functionality will be added in a software update sooner rather than later

 

[Peteski]

Well that's good to know, and hopefully more functionality will be added in a software update sooner rather than later

Hope so too, but it's been a snail's pace development so far. AP2 has been around for several years now and never had simple sign recognition. FSD still seems like a distant pipe-dream and already years behind the original plan for it. When I bought my MX in early 2018 I was led to believe that FSD would be working in just a matter of months and yet in mid 2019 EAP is still at the same level as current FSD. Had I actually bought FSD I would have had zero benefit in 18 months of ownership. The only difference today is that they have watered down EAP to basic AP (i.e. moved previous EAP features into FSD) and effectively renamed EAP as FSD with yet more promises!

 

[dst87]

It is a little surprising that the Model 3 doesn't have speed sign recognition. My 2016 Kia Optima had that.

The benefit, in theory, is that Tesla might actually add the feature. The chance of new features being added to my old Kia Optima or current BMW are approximately 0%.

 

[Maranaz]

Another disappointment is that I have heard we are unlikely to get the Enhanced Summons capability in Europe. In US communication between phone and car is by wireless, so can work over long distance.
The EU insists on communication by bluetooth, which only operates over short distances. Maybe things will change if Brexit ever happens!
The problem with changing lane I had yesterday may also be down to EU. I am told they have imposed a five second rule on Tesla. If lane change is not completed in 5 second the manoeuvre is aborted. I find that hard to believe.

 

[Tony Hoyle]

It's the UNECE implemented through EU law here (I mean, we could make our own law that implemented it, but what would be the point).

It's more complex than 5 seconds. You're only allowed to indicate for 5 seconds but there's nothing to stop FSD delaying the indication until it's ready.. the current software can't do that so it ends up the whole thing being forced into the time limit and aborting.

 

[MrBadger]

There is some discussion whether Mobile Eye aka AP1 have a patent on sign recognition. Looking at it, I would say that the patent is very specific to a particular method and that general image recognition would fall outside of it.

It may go some way as to why the functionality has temporarily regressed and having used sat navs for ages, fully appreciate that GPS and maps is nothing more than a temporary solution. Also as previously mentioned, AP should respond better to speed changes, in to a limit, you should have safely and comfortable slowed to limit in time to have passed the sign. Out of a limit, you should only start speeding up after you have safely passed the sign and as road conditions safely allow. ie just because you come out of a 30 into a national, you don't want to be accelerating quickly if the road is still a bit twisty or icy.

Of course atm, those scenarios are not in the control domain of AP, but motorway speed limits are. I will be interesting to see if it will eventually be able to honour lane and/or hard shoulder closures on overhead gantries of managed motorways. Should be able to imho.

 

[Baldrick]

It's the UNECE implemented through EU law here (I mean, we could make our own law that implemented it, but what would be the point).

It's more complex than 5 seconds. You're only allowed to indicate for 5 seconds but there's nothing to stop FSD delaying the indication until it's ready.. the current software can't do that so it ends up the whole thing being forced into the time limit and aborting.

I suspect, as in no evidence whatsoever, that with the regulations Tesla didn't amend it's software to work best with the regulation, instead it amended it to work to the letter of the regulation.

Put it this way if Tesla had created a "wait until there is a space then indicate" bit of code, that can't be created and tested up overnight.
Instead the obeyed the letter of the requirement but I suspect we might see improvements in the future that stay within the requirements.

We know they are fond of running new software in ghost mode, so they may run an "anticipate when I'm going to be able to change lanes then give it 5 seconds" sub routine alongside the existing software to check it works before deployment.