TESLA MODEL S stopped working... CAR MAY NOT RESTART

[BIZTEam]

It’s not due to recent software updates. I got the same errors last year and they’re too generic to always map to a specific issue. Remote diags pointed to failing battery coolant heater as well so it was replaced under warranty. If you’re up for a DIY replacement, the HV piece shouldn’t scare you away. Just disconnect the fireman’s loop and shut the car down ahead of time. It’s the coolant mess that would deter me.

You are wrong, he is right. It is due recent sw update. Error is readonly, you cant erase it without Tesla Service Center. Check my previus video.

 

[Doanster1]

You are wrong, he is right. It is due recent sw update. Error is readonly, you cant erase it without Tesla Service Center. Check my previus video.

Yes, the actual reporting of errors on the MCU is a relatively new feature. What I meant was that they were able to remotely diagnose the faulty battery coolant heater well before the recent updates showing the error codes, etc.

 

[pavel.zn]

I haven't been to a service center for quite a while and I was surprised at how many Model s's and X's were packed into the parking lot for repair.

Two tow trucks were trying to find spaces to drop off vehicles at the exact time I was given a ride to the service center from my son. I have an appointment on the 6th but was trying to rule out some things and maybe avoid an expensive trip. I wish now that I had bought some of the diagnostic equipment.

If I was a younger man and hadn't had a heart attack and quad bypass, I would have been gearing up with a hoist and everything else that I would need to work on being able to drop the traction battery out of these cars, but I'm trying to wind down and eventually make it a few years of retirement before my shortened life is done.

I'm hoping it is not the main contactors in the traction battery. I just don't have the equipment to handle the roughly 1,200 pound battery. It has a loaner battery that Tesla never did change out and refuses to change out as of 6 months ago.

The original pack had a contactor issue and was eerily similar to what's going on now...but any fault in the high voltage system would shut the contactor off from letting voltage through.

Have you managed to find the root cause? I have the same codes, so I need a clue what to look at.

 

[Evoforce]

Have you managed to find the root cause? I have the same codes, so I need a clue what to look at.

It ended up being a short in the rear drive motor from intrusion of coolant probably through the bearing. It is a known problem. They claim that I had no warranty even though the last motor replacement was a month shy of 3 years. The replacement motor was over $5,000 plus labor and the final cost was a little north of $6,100. The replacement motor has a warranty of 4 years or 50,000 miles.

Any high voltage short in the system from any high voltage component will likely cause the similar on dash error codes. A HV short will cause the contactor to not energize the car. Good luck! I hope your problem is not as expensive as mine...

 

[pavel.zn]

It ended up being a short in the rear drive motor from intrusion of coolant probably through the bearing. It is a known problem. They claim that I had no warranty even though the last motor replacement was a month shy of 3 years. The replacement motor was over $5,000 plus labor and the final cost was a little north of $6,100. The replacement motor has a warranty of 4 years or 50,000 miles.

Any high voltage short in the system from any high voltage component will likely cause the similar on dash error codes. A HV short will cause the contactor to not energize the car. Good luck! I hope your problem is not as expensive as mine...

Thanks for letting me know. I hope my problem is not the drive motor. Anyway, I'm going to check all the HV components. I have an issue with 12v battery as well, so the root cause could be the DC-DC converter.

 

[Botang]

Hi folks, I am in need of your help

My 2017 Model S 75 has logged a BMS_f027 fault (started as a BMS_w172) which I understand to be related to HV isolation issue. Unfortunately my car is unsupported as it was in a minor accident causing some panel damage 3 years ago (no air bags were deployed). I repaired it at the time and it has been perfect ever since up till now.

Seemingly before I try and deal with the pain of clearing the f027, I need to make sure the isolation fault has been fixed, I suspected the coolant heater to be at fault so replaced it anyway, but I really need to know the expected ohm resistance ratings for the HV components in the system to cross check. It is a single motor RWD car and has the single charger under the rear seat rather than the junction box, so I am assuming to carry out the testing at the front junction box.

I have the MCU in factory mode now.

Can anybody help please?

 

[Evoforce]

Hi folks, I am in need of your help

My 2017 Model S 75 has logged a BMS_f027 fault (started as a BMS_w172) which I understand to be related to HV isolation issue. Unfortunately my car is unsupported as it was in a minor accident causing some panel damage 3 years ago (no air bags were deployed). I repaired it at the time and it has been perfect ever since up till now.

Seemingly before I try and deal with the pain of clearing the f027, I need to make sure the isolation fault has been fixed, I suspected the coolant heater to be at fault so replaced it anyway, but I really need to know the expected ohm resistance ratings for the HV components in the system to cross check. It is a single motor RWD car and has the single charger under the rear seat rather than the junction box, so I am assuming to carry out the testing at the front junction box.

I have the MCU in factory mode now.

Can anybody help please?

Did you ever figure out the problem?

 

[terofin]

BMS_027 has hidden fault code F027_repeteadly, i reset it with t-diag.

 

[wk057]

No need to buy random diag tools or pay anyone ridiculous amounts of money to fix this.

Fix it by sending these CAN messages with any CAN transceiver on the powertrain CAN:

CAN_BUFFER_ITEM bms_iso_reset[] = {
    { .id = 0x602, .len=8, .data.u8 = { 2,0x27,05,00,00,00,00,00 } },
    { .id = 0x602, .len=8, .data.u8 = { 0x30,0,0xA,00,00,00,00,00 } },
    { .id = 0x602, .len=8, .data.u8 = { 0x10,0x12,0x27,0x06,0x35,0x34,0x37,0x36 } },
    { .id = 0x602, .len=8, .data.u8 = { 0x21,0x31,0x30,0x33,0x32,0x3D,0x3C,0x3F } },
    { .id = 0x602, .len=8, .data.u8 = { 0x22,0x3E,0x39,0x38,0x3B,0x3A,0x00,0x00 } },
    { .id = 0x602, .len=8, .data.u8 = { 0x04,0x31,0x01,0x04,0x0A,0x00,0x00,0x00 } }
};

Then figure out what's actually causing the isolation issue and fix that (HV blade seal, pack heater, etc). Repeatedly "fixing" this error with the above CAN messages (or with third party tools) is NOT the correct way to fix this. The car is throwing this error for a reason, and that physical issue needs to be corrected. Otherwise the car can have serious issues, including ones that can result in injury/shock/etc. There's isolation failure detection in the hardware for a reason. Don't ignore this, and don't just reset the error without actually finding and fixing the underlying issue.

In my experience the most common problem is the pack heater corrosion causing isolation failure via the coolant. Second is water ingress into the battery pack HV connector due to dry-rotted rubber seals. Beyond that, could be a bunch of things and you'll need special equipment to track that down (megaohm HV isolation testing equipment to check each component).

 

[Cyp896]

Hi.
Unfortunately I experience error w_172 isolation resistance problem (+ limo).
BMS shows 1680 MOhm (sometimes drop to 1640 MOhm), but I measured all components and could not find any of them dropping below minimum described in Tesla biuletin (which I think is not up to date).
I thought it is battery heater, but mine has over 800 MOhm. I even replaced with one having measurement of 480 MOhm and second with resistance over 2000 MOhm. No change.
AC compressor have 68 MOhm.
Rear HV cables to rapid mate/battery shows 49 MOhm.
But rear inverter/drive unit only 4.8 MOhm.
All others - easily over 1000 MOhm.

All looks like above minimum described in biuletin. I also can't get results showing by BMS when summing up all - mine result is 4.07 MOhm, while BMS shows 1.68 MOhm. I have to do either wrong measurement or wrong calculations.

Anybody with experience could share proper isolation resistance for at least above mentioned components? Would really appreciate.
Thanks!

 

[Cyp896]

To add, I have Model S from 2015, dual motor with large rear unit (Performance).
And looking for expected iso.res. on wiring going from HVJB to:
- rear inverter drive
- battery (plugged via rapid mate)

I found someone showing resistance on the inverter like 6 MOhm, so mine 4.8-5 MOhm is significantly lower - but still significantly above minimum 3.5 MOhm.
I could not find so far isolation on wiring going to battery.

 

[NicolayTeslov]

Got the same problem with BMS_f151 and BMS_w151 error. I believe it is isolation leak related.
Disconnected cabin heater from the front junction box, and BMS_f151 gone, but still got DI_u014, GTW_w018, BMS_f036

 

[dima0669]

No need to buy random diag tools or pay anyone ridiculous amounts of money to fix this.

Fix it by sending these CAN messages with any CAN transceiver on the powertrain CAN:

CAN_BUFFER_ITEM bms_iso_reset[] = {
    { .id = 0x602, .len=8, .data.u8 = { 2,0x27,05,00,00,00,00,00 } },
    { .id = 0x602, .len=8, .data.u8 = { 0x30,0,0xA,00,00,00,00,00 } },
    { .id = 0x602, .len=8, .data.u8 = { 0x10,0x12,0x27,0x06,0x35,0x34,0x37,0x36 } },
    { .id = 0x602, .len=8, .data.u8 = { 0x21,0x31,0x30,0x33,0x32,0x3D,0x3C,0x3F } },
    { .id = 0x602, .len=8, .data.u8 = { 0x22,0x3E,0x39,0x38,0x3B,0x3A,0x00,0x00 } },
    { .id = 0x602, .len=8, .data.u8 = { 0x04,0x31,0x01,0x04,0x0A,0x00,0x00,0x00 } }
};

Then figure out what's actually causing the isolation issue and fix that (HV blade seal, pack heater, etc). Repeatedly "fixing" this error with the above CAN messages (or with third party tools) is NOT the correct way to fix this. The car is throwing this error for a reason, and that physical issue needs to be corrected. Otherwise the car can have serious issues, including ones that can result in injury/shock/etc. There's isolation failure detection in the hardware for a reason. Don't ignore this, and don't just reset the error without actually finding and fixing the underlying issue.

In my experience the most common problem is the pack heater corrosion causing isolation failure via the coolant. Second is water ingress into the battery pack HV connector due to dry-rotted rubber seals. Beyond that, could be a bunch of things and you'll need special equipment to track that down (megaohm HV isolation testing equipment to check each component).

Would you tell more information about this because i bought CAN transceiver and download simple programme but i can't find a way whow to make the write messages from the code you give. The message contains 8 symblis each for 2 numbers. But in the code something different. That is why i came to conclusion that i make something wrong. Sorry for my stupid question. Wuold you help me?

 

[ThatGoogleGuy]

I'm in a similar position now, started a new thread but this one is fairly on topic. Here's what I experienced, 2015 P85D, 112k miles:

Yesterday the car suddenly warned "Car may not restart, Service required" while driving around town. I shut it down and researched. The car restarted fine and drove it home. The error asserted at least a dozen more times on the drive home, however almost never on the highway.

Next day, the car won't present door handles. Only unlocks frunk / trunk and the IC / MCU don't power up. I jump start the car and everything eventually comes on line with a multitude of errors. No errors pertaining to low 12V battery. This time, the car limits acceleration and no regen on the drive into service.

I dropped the car at service and was given a loaner. Fingers crossed its covered under warranty and lands me a new battery or DU.

Errors reported: BMS_w035_SW, BMS_u008, BMS_w172_SW_Drive_Iso, GTW_w017, 018, 157

What was the conclusion to this? I've got the same errors and I'd like to know how your situation played out. Thanks!

 

[Bodrumlu1976]

Hi.
Unfortunately I experience error w_172 isolation resistance problem (+ limo).
BMS shows 1680 MOhm (sometimes drop to 1640 MOhm), but I measured all components and could not find any of them dropping below minimum described in Tesla biuletin (which I think is not up to date).
I thought it is battery heater, but mine has over 800 MOhm. I even replaced with one having measurement of 480 MOhm and second with resistance over 2000 MOhm. No change.
AC compressor have 68 MOhm.
Rear HV cables to rapid mate/battery shows 49 MOhm.
But rear inverter/drive unit only 4.8 MOhm.
All others - easily over 1000 MOhm.

All looks like above minimum described in biuletin. I also can't get results showing by BMS when summing up all - mine result is 4.07 MOhm, while BMS shows 1.68 MOhm. I have to do either wrong measurement or wrong calculations.

Anybody with experience could share proper isolation resistance for at least above mentioned components? Would really appreciate.
Thanks!

Did you solve this problem? I am experiencing exact the Same problem. Al values are ok but still getting fault codes.

 

[AlphaTango11]

No need to buy random diag tools or pay anyone ridiculous amounts of money to fix this.

Fix it by sending these CAN messages with any CAN transceiver on the powertrain CAN:

CAN_BUFFER_ITEM bms_iso_reset[] = {
    { .id = 0x602, .len=8, .data.u8 = { 2,0x27,05,00,00,00,00,00 } },
    { .id = 0x602, .len=8, .data.u8 = { 0x30,0,0xA,00,00,00,00,00 } },
    { .id = 0x602, .len=8, .data.u8 = { 0x10,0x12,0x27,0x06,0x35,0x34,0x37,0x36 } },
    { .id = 0x602, .len=8, .data.u8 = { 0x21,0x31,0x30,0x33,0x32,0x3D,0x3C,0x3F } },
    { .id = 0x602, .len=8, .data.u8 = { 0x22,0x3E,0x39,0x38,0x3B,0x3A,0x00,0x00 } },
    { .id = 0x602, .len=8, .data.u8 = { 0x04,0x31,0x01,0x04,0x0A,0x00,0x00,0x00 } }
};

Then figure out what's actually causing the isolation issue and fix that (HV blade seal, pack heater, etc). Repeatedly "fixing" this error with the above CAN messages (or with third party tools) is NOT the correct way to fix this. The car is throwing this error for a reason, and that physical issue needs to be corrected. Otherwise the car can have serious issues, including ones that can result in injury/shock/etc. There's isolation failure detection in the hardware for a reason. Don't ignore this, and don't just reset the error without actually finding and fixing the underlying issue.

In my experience the most common problem is the pack heater corrosion causing isolation failure via the coolant. Second is water ingress into the battery pack HV connector due to dry-rotted rubber seals. Beyond that, could be a bunch of things and you'll need special equipment to track that down (megaohm HV isolation testing equipment to check each component).

Can confirm that these messages cleared BMS_w172 after I repaired my rear drive unit and verified good isolation. Thanks Jason!

 

[Peter_P]

No need to buy random diag tools or pay anyone ridiculous amounts of money to fix this.

Fix it by sending these CAN messages with any CAN transceiver on the powertrain CAN:

CAN_BUFFER_ITEM bms_iso_reset[] = {
    { .id = 0x602, .len=8, .data.u8 = { 2,0x27,05,00,00,00,00,00 } },
    { .id = 0x602, .len=8, .data.u8 = { 0x30,0,0xA,00,00,00,00,00 } },
    { .id = 0x602, .len=8, .data.u8 = { 0x10,0x12,0x27,0x06,0x35,0x34,0x37,0x36 } },
    { .id = 0x602, .len=8, .data.u8 = { 0x21,0x31,0x30,0x33,0x32,0x3D,0x3C,0x3F } },
    { .id = 0x602, .len=8, .data.u8 = { 0x22,0x3E,0x39,0x38,0x3B,0x3A,0x00,0x00 } },
    { .id = 0x602, .len=8, .data.u8 = { 0x04,0x31,0x01,0x04,0x0A,0x00,0x00,0x00 } }
};

Then figure out what's actually causing the isolation issue and fix that (HV blade seal, pack heater, etc). Repeatedly "fixing" this error with the above CAN messages (or with third party tools) is NOT the correct way to fix this. The car is throwing this error for a reason, and that physical issue needs to be corrected. Otherwise the car can have serious issues, including ones that can result in injury/shock/etc. There's isolation failure detection in the hardware for a reason. Don't ignore this, and don't just reset the error without actually finding and fixing the underlying issue.

In my experience the most common problem is the pack heater corrosion causing isolation failure via the coolant. Second is water ingress into the battery pack HV connector due to dry-rotted rubber seals. Beyond that, could be a bunch of things and you'll need special equipment to track that down (megaohm HV isolation testing equipment to check each component).

Thank you very much @wk057 for sharing this information!

Our Tesla Model S (2014) has a BMS_f107 fault:

This turned out to be due to a loose voltage sense / balance wire (between brick 3/4 in module 11):

The wire has been fixed and the module has been balanced.
The BMS_isolationResistance was 3600 kOhm before the pack was removed.
Next week the battery pack will be reassembled again.

Any idea which UDS codes or Tesla toolbox procedure would be needed to clear f107?

 

[wk057]

None. Fixing the actual physical issue would instantly (upon 12v power cycle) remove that error.

 

[Peter_P]

None. Fixing the actual physical issue would instantly (upon 12v power cycle) remove that error.

Great, thank you very much for the fast answer!
Will confirm when the pack is back in place.

 

[Peter_P]

None. Fixing the actual physical issue would instantly (upon 12v power cycle) remove that error.

Unfortunately, after the workshop re-installed the pack today, the BMS_f107 fault was not (yet) removed:

Looking at the cell voltages with ScanMyTesla, the voltages appear stable and the imbalance is now ~8-9 mV. The two cell groups 63&64 (within module 11 of our 85 pack) used to be occasionally instable and were out of balance (last measured on March 6 when the car went to the workshop). Today all cell groups appeared to be stable for as long as measured:

The 12V battery is now supported and we will check tomorrow if the fault might have been cleared overnight. Any suggestions how to procede would be very welcome!