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Tesla Model X Cancellation

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Is it funny pics time already?

I never learn the TMC etiquette! ;)

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$30,000 litigation? Jeez come on... I was backing you til this point.

Over here we raise an independent complaint and hope to get a free hat at the end if lucky. Lawsuit culture in the U.S. for ya I guess?

To be accurate, I understand the $30 000 was OPs suggested penalty only if Tesla were to fail to deliver his exact-spec car the second time around, not a settlement. It may seem arbitrary, and perhaps it was, but I think it is worth making the distinction it was not something that would have been automatically paid. Inaccurate statements like "$30 000 litigation" don't really help the mule (not horse) beating along! :)

In any case, good luck to the parties involved. I said earlier the case makes me a little sad, really. I'm not cheering like some people. Hope y'all sort it out.
 
Here's what I don't understand:

The OP says he's in a high-dollar business yet immediately jumped to legal threats, and this surprises me. Very, very long ago - in my very early 20's - I was taught that the best course of action to take the moment a customer threatens legal action is to cut off any communication immediately and suggest the customer follow through by having his counsel contact your counsel where all of the legal maneuvering can take place. In this case, the customer made a legal demand of $30k and threatened to sue. I don't blame Tesla and its counsel here at all for its response. It is never appropriate to threaten legal action unless you're willing to follow through on it, and when you do threaten the action you'd better make sure that the law is on your side. At every turn, Tesla has consistently demonstrated its willingness to make things right, but the threats kept coming with unreasonable demands.

Second, there are times when, frankly, it's better not to do business with someone - especially if they take an adversarial and/or litigious position on every business dealing. I recall Herb Kelleher's response to a woman who consistently complained at Southwest Airlines after every flight and kept threatening never to fly them again. After many different letters from Southwest's customer relations team to the woman explaining policy, Herb Kelleher (CEO) finally responded to one of the letters... "Dear Ms. Crabapple, we will miss you. Love, Herb." And, frankly, that's the right attitude to have.

And finally, after reading the e-mail, I sincerely doubt that anyone in the stores said that Model S was never going to be released with "AWD or anything else". The sales staff aren't aware of the car's unannounced future specs, and as such it just doesn't make sense for them to say definitively there aren't any plans. In fact, on more than one occasion I've heard Tesla sales staff say that their purpose is to demonstrate what's available today, not speculate on the futures - which come from engineering.

Tesla has the concept of "due bills". My car was delivered without my rear-facing seats, and Tesla told me that they would be installed when ready (which turned out to be about 2 months later). It was listed as an item that would be addressed in the future and was agreed to -- as well as the pano sunshade and a few other things. Tesla *did* commit to the new seats but that wasn't good enough, and rejecting the vehicle delivery instead of working with Tesla is indeed a justification for canceling a future reservation for another vehicle, as long as the deposit was refunded.
 
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And finally, after reading the e-mail, I sincerely doubt that anyone in the stores said that Model S was never going to be released with "AWD or anything else". The sales staff aren't aware of the car's unannounced future specs, and as such it just doesn't make sense for them to say definitively there aren't any plans. In fact, on more than one occasion I've heard Tesla sales staff say that their purpose is to demonstrate what's available today, not speculate on the futures - which come from engineering.

My thoughts exactly. Even an overly zealous sales rep would qualify that statement with, "as far as I know". If there was no qualification, a savvy car shopper would have doubted anything said. He would have asked to speak with someone with more authority because unless Tesla announced the discontinuation of Model S, it would eventually be upgraded.
That email did not help the OP's case at all. Tesla was right to cut this customer loose. Other car dealerships should beware.
Edit: everything else in the letter underscored the questionable behavior of the OP - the car rental "problem", the "forced" signing of the paperwork, the wrong seats.
Even after reading nothing from Tesla's perspective, I doubt the OP will succeed in a suit or even in the court of public opinion.
 
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The Original Poster (OP) is probably a little too combative. No one forced him to buy from Tesla. It's a free market. There are other cars to purchase, maybe not as nice an all electric as Tesla's, but there are other choices. Given that, I think Tesla may want to take the high road and give the guy another chance. Pride cometh before the fall... The buyer is a little too proud to accept that a manufacturer makes mistakes, and maybe certain individuals within Tesla are letting the fame of the company and the car result in a little too much pride on their part too. They should shake hands, clean the slate and begin anew. If it still doesn't work, the free market is still there, for both parties - for the buyer to choose another manufacturer, and for the company to choose other buyers.
 
Attached is my email to Jerome ....
"SECURED" PDF apparently disabled copy/paste so I'll abbreviate:
End of September I took delivery...
One week later Tesla announced ... AWD ...
... Sales manager ... told me the only way we can do this is if I trade the car and get the P85D

Significantly Improved Leasing for a Tesla with US Bank | Tesla Motors
Leasing now also comes with the Tesla happiness guarantee. If you don't like our car for any reason in the first three months, you can just return it and your remaining lease obligation is waived. The only catch is that you can't then immediately lease another Model S.

Perhaps Tesla should consider extending the "happiness guarantee" (to some degree) for non-lease customers.
 
Folks can hardly be expected to endure the horror of a Tesla Model S P85D, if they have to sit in an ordinary seat for a few weeks. :cursing:

OP went overboard with the lawsuit, but your post is dismissive of the core issue Tesla still faces: Communication. They screwed up, and didn't handle it properly. He's right in that much of the BS folks around here put up with will likely bite them in the rear if/when they try to sell to the masses.

If I understand the back and forth correctly, his car was delivered with the old seats and not the new ones he ordered. The DS also made no mention of it at delivery.

Can you imagine if you had no idea that the seat issue was happening (because, you know, you didn't hang out in online Tesla communities) and your car showed up with the wrong seats and no mention of it at delivery? Regardless of how acceptable the seats you currently have are, you can't tell me you wouldn't feel a bit miffed that such an error was made (with no communication about it or planned resolution)
 
Actually the letter is not that unreasonable. However the 30k figure seems to appear out of thin air.
My impression is that the 30k figure came from his cost for trading in his 140k purchase P85+ for 110k credit towards his P85D. That's just me guessing since the numbers match, though.

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early adapters
Some of the early adapters had fire or melting concerns. I think you mean "adopters". ;)
 
OP went overboard with the lawsuit, but your post is dismissive of the core issue Tesla still faces: Communication. They screwed up, and didn't handle it properly. He's right in that much of the BS folks around here put up with will likely bite them in the rear if/when they try to sell to the masses.

If I understand the back and forth correctly, his car was delivered with the old seats and not the new ones he ordered. The DS also made no mention of it at delivery.

Can you imagine if you had no idea that the seat issue was happening (because, you know, you didn't hang out in online Tesla communities) and your car showed up with the wrong seats and no mention of it at delivery? Regardless of how acceptable the seats you currently have are, you can't tell me you wouldn't feel a bit miffed that such an error was made (with no communication about it or planned resolution)


i mean yeah if I was told explicitly 'no AWD MS' then ordered a P85+ then AWD MS came out a week later, then got told 'tough $h1t', forced to trade in for a P85D etc etc then didn't get my configuration , got led on, then they took the car back and then in general not have any car at all and be out about $20k less than what I started with before I ordered the original MS; and on top of that unrelated got my MX early reservation canceled by Tesla I'd be pretty pissed off too. basically the OP is out $20k or so. like throwing 20k in the trash. it hurts. he got burnt.
 
i mean yeah if I was told explicitly 'no AWD MS' then ordered a P85+ then AWD MS came out a week later, then got told 'tough $h1t', forced to trade in for a P85D etc etc then didn't get my configuration , got led on, then they took the car back and then in general not have any car at all and be out about $20k less than what I started with before I ordered the original MS; and on top of that unrelated got my MX early reservation canceled by Tesla I'd be pretty pissed off too. basically the OP is out $20k or so. like throwing 20k in the trash. it hurts. he got burnt.

It seems that both parties made small mistakes and that escalated into a war. How not surprising.

Tesla needs to lift their customer communication game. With time they will learn, at this early stage mistakes are growing pains.

I find it scary, all this 'reckless hiring', how are new employees trained and integrated into Tesla's culture if there are more new hires than long term employees.
 
I have to wonder what the TMC mix lyrics of ABBA Agnetha's above If I Thought You'd Ever Change Your Mind would be...

I would bring you snippiness
in a wrapped up Model X
as spied without a tow


I would love to see an amicable resolution still. Sometimes misunderstandings mount up, so that it is hard to fix what has unintentionally or in merely heat of a moment been broken. Sometimes it is hard to move to the other person's shoes and see what they see - and why - and what they are saying and why. Once more, here's hoping that the parties find each other, so to speak.

Keeping disputes musical - many a broken up band has sung on the topic, of course.
 
I would love to see an amicable resolution still. Sometimes misunderstandings mount up, so that it is hard to fix what has unintentionally or in merely heat of a moment been broken. Sometimes it is hard to move to the other person's shoes and see what they see - and why - and what they are saying and why. Once more, here's hoping that the parties find each other, so to speak.

I second this. To get there, both parties must be willing and back off a bit.

OP has more to loose, being banned as a Tesla customer must be shattering. Perhaps OP learned a lesson not to be too righteous, considering the outcome.

Some mediation is called for. The party that made the first threat is the one that has to make a first step towards different outcome, if that is what they wish.

Good luck.
 
i mean yeah if I was told explicitly 'no AWD MS' then ordered a P85+ then AWD MS came out a week later, then got told 'tough ****', forced to trade in for a P85D etc etc then didn't get my configuration , got led on, then they took the car back and then in general not have any car at all and be out about $20k less than what I started with before I ordered the original MS; and on top of that unrelated got my MX early reservation canceled by Tesla I'd be pretty ****** off too. basically the OP is out $20k or so. like throwing 20k in the trash. it hurts. he got burnt.

The OP came to TMC on 10/13/2014 with his first post to start a class action lawsuit. The rights and wrongs of Tesla introducing autopilot features the way they did has been discussed at length elsewhere but the OP probably did himself no favors by trying to get a lawsuit going from the very start. The OP made it into the newspapers at the time also.

On various occasions the OP accused Tesla of shady and discriminating practices, being crooks, operating a scam, fraud etc. etc. and in January again reached for his lawyer. He didn't have his car taken away but refused delivery and by reading through this thread only would accept the car if Tesla agreed to a payment of $30k if the seats weren't retro-fitted by a specific date. Oddly enough he also previously announced himself satisfied with his trade in...
...we have reached an agreement for the trade that was somewhat acceptable to me.
and...
I don't really blame them for my losses...

The next step was to come here and post a private letter from Tesla. Now as much as Tesla arguably deserved a beating for their communications breakdown in December, this constant reaching for lawyers by the OP almost certainly led to his current situation. We'll never know the details from both sides, and we have no right to, but based on what the OP has done publicly he's not garnering a great deal of sympathy. It would have been pretty easy to take delivery of his car and have the seats put on a punch-list.

(BTW, the OP's attorney should probably make him aware that to claim the EV tax credit in 2014 he would have had to put the car in service in 2014. Signing the papers but not accepting delivery until 2015 may well be considered fraudulent in the eyes of the IRS)
 
It would have been pretty easy to take delivery of his car and have the seats put on a punch-list.

that would have been the common sense action taken as plenty of others have done the same...if seats really put him over the edge it kinda seems clear he has different intentions and doesn't really want a P85D. reminds me of the other wacko that sued because his door handles wouldn't extend bc he didnt read the directions.
 
(BTW, the OP's attorney should probably make him aware that to claim the EV tax credit in 2014 he would have had to put the car in service in 2014. Signing the papers but not accepting delivery until 2015 may well be considered fraudulent in the eyes of the IRS)

I can tell you from first-hand knowledge what "in service" means to the IRS. To the IRS, "in service" means you physically take delivery of the vehicle and begin using it. I had a situation where I purchased a vehicle on December 23, I had the bill of sale and the MSO was signed over to me prior to year-end, but the vehicle couldn't be delivered until a couple of weeks later. I was forced to amend two years to move that purchase from one year to another as a result. The IRS would not budge, we took it to tax court over the intent to put it in service, and I lost the case.

If you signed the paperwork in December but didn't take the car until January, you are not entitled to claim the rebate for the year ended December.